The Tuchel Thread

[Fernando 6,387]

I still say it's pre season form. 

No need to panic. 

[OneMoSalah 8,619]

6 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

A good shout out. 

I honestly wanted Eddie Howie when FL got sacked. Just saw the newcastle vs city match and they went toe to toe against city. 

I would also give a shout out to Poch. Wont be a popular opinion, but the guy made spurs look good. We dont have the same issues as PSG so dont think thats a fair stick to beat him with, his football is quite good and attacking (albeit a bit naive at times), but I honestly would not mind him. As for TT, things are really not looking good. I just hope we dont give him any stupid extension

Went “toe to toe” then basically fell apart at 3-1. Not a good sign being 3-1 up and conceding 2 goals. Fair enough there was a quality pass for the third but it was still too easy and the Haaland goal was embarrassingly poor defensively too. Plus another day they lose that game 6-3.

Granted they played well (well it was really a one man show at times as ASM was causing City huge issues) but City didn’t properly start playing with a purpose to they were 3-1 down I thought and still could have had a goal or two half at it (Haaland shot saved onto post was a big moment).

Edited August 22, 2022 by OneMoSalah

[blahblahblah 73]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Went “toe to toe” then basically fell apart at 3-1. Not a good sign being 3-1 up and conceding 2 goals. Fair enough there was a quality pass for the third but it was still too easy and the Haaland goal was embarrassingly poor defensively too. Plus another day they lose that game 6-3.

Granted they played well (well it was really a one man show at times as ASM was causing City huge issues) but City didn’t properly start playing with a purpose to they were 3-1 down I thought and still could have had a goal or two half at it (Haaland shot saved onto post was a big moment).

Don't get the point? You do know that city doubled us last season, right? I think one of the games we barely even registered a shot on target. 

Compared to that i would take any and every thing that Newcastle did yesterday. You can jot it down to "city were not up to it" or "city did not start playing with a purpose", at the end of the day they scored 3 goals against them, we have scored 2 goals against them in our last 4 pl games. 

If only Tt knew how to coach an attack.

[DDA 9,570]

I fear this could be the beginning of the end. I hope not but all the early signs are there.

[Blue Armour 4,176]

21 minutes ago, DDA said:

I fear this could be the beginning of the end. I hope not but all the early signs are there.

Bear in mind...this is a different regime than Roman's. So who knows about what will happen with Tuchel.

But yes, all the signs of a shit show season are there. Maybe a world cup reset midway through the season might not be bad after all. 

[Strike 6,992]

11 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

TT is top level? 

Hell even his transfer targets are mid table PL. His tactics have been found out. His football is dull and boring. And most importantly, 2 summers in, i don't think he has a single clue as to what our pain points are when considering the squad. 

I feel the job he has done has been hopelessly sub par. We have become a cup team like Everton were for such a long time and the next step in our decline would be to even miss out on top4 (which is a very very very high probability event). I would get rid of him and start over post the world cup. If there is someone better than poch then so be it. Potter should be definitely considered but don't think a mid season move will be possible and I don't think i want another season full of this mediocrity.

Lot of knee-jerk posts today - this one is comparing the team to Everton 😃. I can understand Tuchel should be scrutinised but he is still an extremely good coach and his record here till now is kinda impressive with a squad that he basically inherited and barely changed. 

Transfer targets list this summer  - De Ligt, Ake, Gvardiol, Kimpembe, Fofana, Raphinha, FdJ, Koulibaly, Sterling, Jesus, Zinchenko, Cucurella, Gordon, Lewandowski, Aubameyang (15 m price)  What exactly is mid-table about this? Mid-table level targets are signing for Barca, Bayern and thriving (early signs) at Arsenal? Gvardiol and Cucurella were wanted by Pep and City. The club also didn't want to overpay for Ake and Auba - I would say this is a pretty good list - Could you tell me who you would be targeting if these are mid-table targets? 

 

[blahblahblah 73]

28 minutes ago, Strike said:

Lot of knee-jerk posts today - this one is comparing the team to Everton 😃. I can understand Tuchel should be scrutinised but he is still an extremely good coach and his record here till now is kinda impressive with a squad that he basically inherited and barely changed. 

Transfer targets list this summer  - De Ligt, Ake, Gvardiol, Kimpembe, Fofana, Raphinha, FdJ, Koulibaly, Sterling, Jesus, Zinchenko, Cucurella, Gordon, Lewandowski, Aubameyang (15 m price)  What exactly is mid-table about this? Mid-table level targets are signing for Barca, Bayern and thriving (early signs) at Arsenal? Gvardiol and Cucurella were wanted by Pep and City. The club also didn't want to overpay for Ake and Auba - I would say this is a pretty good list - Could you tell me who you would be targeting if these are mid-table targets? 

 

What? What is impressive in his numbers at the club. 

In 60pl games, he has 33 wins, FL had 28 in 58. And he inherited a very talented squad. A squad which was supposed to be the envy of everyone. A bunch of club trained very highly rated youth players + 250m worth of talent in ziyech, Werner, Kai, chilly etc.

And he has "barely" been able to change that. Seriously? 😂😂 250m worth of spend on top of the already talented squad that he inherited. 

Raphinha, ake, gordon, 33 year old auba are the definition of mid table. None of them are better than the players who they supposedly had to replace. Hell, buying KK to replace Rudi was another downgrade. 

This window was all about massaging TT's massive inflated ego. He basically just said, that it's not me, it's Lukaku, Werner, Puli, cho and ziyech who were the problem. I wont use any of them, buy me a new attack while i keep my tactics the same. Nothing more, nothing less than that. He should be sacked by the winter break, i just hope we are lining up replacement rather than wasting anymore money on the Gordons, aubas of the world.

[Strike 6,992]

16 minutes ago, blahblahblah said:

What? What is impressive in his numbers at the club. 

In 60pl games, he has 33 wins, FL had 28 in 58. And he inherited a very talented squad. A squad which was supposed to be the envy of everyone. A bunch of club trained very highly rated youth players + 250m worth of talent in ziyech, Werner, Kai, chilly etc.

And he has "barely" been able to change that. Seriously? 😂😂 250m worth of spend on top of the already talented squad that he inherited. 

Raphinha, ake, gordon, 33 year old auba are the definition of mid table. None of them are better than the players who they supposedly had to replace. Hell, buying KK to replace Rudi was another downgrade. 

This window was all about massaging TT's massive inflated ego. He basically just said, that it's not me, it's Lukaku, Werner, Puli, cho and ziyech who were the problem. I wont use any of them, buy me a new attack while i keep my tactics the same. Nothing more, nothing less than that. He should be sacked by the winter break, i just hope we are lining up replacement rather than wasting anymore money on the Gordons, aubas of the world.

The same tactic won the CL by barely breaking a sweat at any point in the competition. People forget how hard it is do this. He inherited a squad that's not suited to a pressing game - and quickly worked out a way to make it effective. The incomings last summer were Lukaku and Saul - two of the worst signings. Some blame on Tuchel here but we know he wanted Hakimi and the board had a big say in those transfers. 

Still don't see you suggesting better players that the club should have targeted. There were some quality players targeted by the club this summer - The ones you consider the definition of mid-table have not been signed either. Who should the club be targeting you think?

 

[blahblahblah 73]

Just now, Strike said:

The same tactic won the CL by barely breaking a sweat at any point in the competition. People forget how hard it is do this. He inherited a squad that's not suited to a pressing game - and quickly worked out a way to make it effective. The incomings last summer were Lukaku and Saul - two of the worst signings. Some blame on Tuchel here but we know he wanted Hakimi and the board had a big say in those transfers. 

Still don't see you suggesting better players that the club should have targeted. There were some quality players targeted by the club this summer - The ones you consider the definition of mid-table have not been signed either. Who should the club be targeting you think?

 

Yes, he has been living off off that CL win. That's infact the only thing that we have done worthwhile. It's papered over the cracks, very evident and hopeless cracks. 

He has a league performance which is akin to Lampard who went a season without a single transfer. Who integrated youth and got a position which TT crawled to last year despite having his say over who to buy in the market. 

If Lukaku and Saul were our only buys, it was on TT. We needed a DM more than a striker. And let's not give TT a pass on lukaku. It was floated long time before we got RL, that he was in TT's top3 list of strikers. 

As for targets, why am I liable to give you a list. Did i claim to be a scout? @Vespercan give you that list of players most of whom seem much better than who we are targetting.  

[Strike 6,992]

Just now, blahblahblah said:

Yes, he has been living off off that CL win. That's infact the only thing that we have done worthwhile. It's papered over the cracks, very evident and hopeless cracks. 

He has a league performance which is akin to Lampard who went a season without a single transfer. Who integrated youth and got a position which TT crawled to last year despite having his say over who to buy in the market. 

If Lukaku and Saul were our only buys, it was on TT. We needed a DM more than a striker. And let's not give TT a pass on lukaku. It was floated long time before we got RL, that he was in TT's top3 list of strikers. 

As for targets, why am I liable to give you a list. Did i claim to be a scout? @Vespercan give you that list of players most of whom seem much better than who we are targetting.  

Very convenient to say the targets are mid-table by picking 3-4 who weren't even signed. Everybody is a genius in hindsight

 

[blahblahblah 73]

16 minutes ago, Strike said:

Very convenient to say the targets are mid-table by picking 3-4 who weren't even signed. Everybody is a genius in hindsight

 

If we want to talk about "convenient", let's talk about TT. 

How conveniently has he put the blame on our attackers. From last season, Lukaku and Werner have gone. Cho and ziyech are no where to be seen while Puli is used sparingly.

Exactly this time last year, our strength in numbers in attack was being touted as our biggest strengths and we were said to be on par with Liverpool and city. 1 year later, 5 out of 7 of our attackers are considered as "expendable" by the manager who now wants new shiny toys to play with. Meanwhile no changes in the system, tactics are observed, no changes in attacking methodology. That's the definition of "convenient". Putting the blame on the players while conveniently ignoring the glaring shortcomings in the tactics. 

And wait a minute. I am not "conveniently" choosing targets. I am choosing targets who are MOST likely to join us or be added by the end of window. De ligt, gvaridol, etc etc are not going to join us, i hope you know that. We are down to auba, gordon, fofana/Maguire as our additions. I know exactly where 3 out of  those 4 belong - mid table.

[blahblahblah 73]

Thought long and hard last night. And could not find a reason why TT should be given time to continue. He has failed to integrate some very very talented youth in tomori, guehi, livramento, tammy. Some of them already had a step in, and we sold them. Infact, we have gone from Tammy to a 33 year old Auba. Yes, the long and short of the whole striker fiasco is that we have given up a very solid no. 9 and got a has been. He clearly has no attacking nuance. His play is shit and boring. His man-management is piss poor as we can see with how lukaku, werner have left. CHO, puli, ziyech want to leave. Whats even more shocking is the amount of rejections we have got. He has no pull as a manager. The number of players who almost shunned the club was embarassing.

All of this aside, I actually wanted to see if he was doing a decent job atleast in terms of winning. I have collated the numbers for PL games for all managers under RA, and its actually baffling

TT: P60, W33, D17, L10, PPM 1.93, W 55%

FL: P58, W28, D11, L18, PPM 1.67, W% 48.3%

Sarri: P38, W21, D9, L8, PPM 1.89, W% 55.2%

Conte: P76, W51, D10, L15, PPM 2.14, W% 67.1%

Benitez: P26, W15, D6, L5, PPM 1.96, W% 57.7%

JM: P211, W140, D44, L27, PPM 2.2, W% 66.3%

AVB: P27, W13, D7, L7, PPM 1.7, W% 48.14%

RDM: P23, W12, D6, L5, PPM 1.83, W% 52.17%

Ancelotti: P76, W48, D13, L15, PPM 2.07, W% 63.1%

Hiddink: P34, W18, D12, L4, PPM 1.94, W% 52.9%

Avram Grant: P33, W22, D8, L3, PPM 2.24, W% 66.6%

Luiz Felipe Scolari: P25, W14, D7, L4, PPM 1.96, W% 56%

Ranieri: P38, W24, D7, L7, PPM 2.08, W% 63.15%

So out of 13 distinct managers under RA, TT is ranked 9th by W% and Point per Match (PPM). And people expect me to get behind him? For what?

RDM won us a CL too, and has a comparitive W% and PPM, but we did not keep shitting our bed with him here. Need to get rid asap. The credit for the CL win has run its course, high time we look at the reality of the situation.

[Fernando 6,387]

12 minutes ago, blahblahblah said:

Thought long and hard last night. And could not find a reason why TT should be given time to continue. He has failed to integrate some very very talented youth in tomori, guehi, livramento, tammy. Some of them already had a step in, and we sold them. Infact, we have gone from Tammy to a 33 year old Auba. Yes, the long and short of the whole striker fiasco is that we have given up a very solid no. 9 and got a has been. He clearly has no attacking nuance. His play is shit and boring. His man-management is piss poor as we can see with how lukaku, werner have left. CHO, puli, ziyech want to leave. Whats even more shocking is the amount of rejections we have got. He has no pull as a manager. The number of players who almost shunned the club was embarassing.

All of this aside, I actually wanted to see if he was doing a decent job atleast in terms of winning. I have collated the numbers for PL games for all managers under RA, and its actually baffling

TT: P60, W33, D17, L10, PPM 1.93, W 55%

FL: P58, W28, D11, L18, PPM 1.67, W% 48.3%

Sarri: P38, W21, D9, L8, PPM 1.89, W% 55.2%

Conte: P76, W51, D10, L15, PPM 2.14, W% 67.1%

Benitez: P26, W15, D6, L5, PPM 1.96, W% 57.7%

JM: P211, W140, D44, L27, PPM 2.2, W% 66.3%

AVB: P27, W13, D7, L7, PPM 1.7, W% 48.14%

RDM: P23, W12, D6, L5, PPM 1.83, W% 52.17%

Ancelotti: P76, W48, D13, L15, PPM 2.07, W% 63.1%

Hiddink: P34, W18, D12, L4, PPM 1.94, W% 52.9%

Avram Grant: P33, W22, D8, L3, PPM 2.24, W% 66.6%

Luiz Felipe Scolari: P25, W14, D7, L4, PPM 1.96, W% 56%

Ranieri: P38, W24, D7, L7, PPM 2.08, W% 63.15%

So out of 13 distinct managers under RA, TT is ranked 9th by W% and Point per Match (PPM). And people expect me to get behind him? For what?

RDM won us a CL too, and has a comparitive W% and PPM, but we did not keep shitting our bed with him here. Need to get rid asap. The credit for the CL win has run its course, high time we look at the reality of the situation.

Livramento and Tomori?

After reading that and seeing you have no clue about this, then it's clear you have a bias agenda. 

[blahblahblah 73]

25 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Livramento and Tomori?

After reading that and seeing you have no clue about this, then it's clear you have a bias agenda. 

Huh?

Have you watched livramento play? How is that bias. Anyone who has watched him play for soton would easily back me up to say that we would go amiss buying him back for 40m.

Also, most of my post was actual numbers which show TT has been below average among the list of Chelsea managers. So sorry, just because you want to live in some weird fantasy land, does not make others biased. I am biased for the best of Chelsea, you need to choose your

Edited August 22, 2022 by blahblahblah

[Fernando 6,387]

25 minutes ago, blahblahblah said:

Huh?

Have you watched livramento play? How is that bias. Anyone who has watched him play for soton would easily back me up to say that we would go amiss buying him back for 40m.

Also, most of my post was actual numbers which show TT has been below average among the list of Chelsea managers. So sorry, just because you want to live in some weird fantasy land, does not make others biased. I am biased for the best of Chelsea, you need to choose your

Because you said: He has failed to integrate some very very talented youth

How is TT fault about Livramento and Tomori? 

[blahblahblah 73]

1 minute ago, Fernando said:

Because you said: He has failed to integrate some very very talented youth

How is TT fault about Livramento and Tomori? 

I dont get your premise?

You do realize that both were sold last summer UNDER TT when TT was already Chelsea's manager for 6 months. Tomori is way better of a player than sarr or chalobah, both who made the team. Hell, i would say tomori is as good as AC and he is showing it in milan.

As for livramento, another one who should not have been sold. Either TT did not do his homework of watching the Kid or just did not trust our youth coaches and managers who should have been raving about the kid. Anyone who has followed Livramento, would know that the kid is special. He should have been with the squad last year with assurances from TT about a place in the first team given that RJ could easily slot into the Azpi RCB role and livramento into the RWB role.

So again, dont understand how am i biased in saying that TT failed to either integrate some very talented youth players.

[OneMoSalah 8,619]

8 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

Huh?

Have you watched livramento play? How is that bias. Anyone who has watched him play for soton would easily back me up to say that we would go amiss buying him back for 40m.

Also, most of my post was actual numbers which show TT has been below average among the list of Chelsea managers. So sorry, just because you want to live in some weird fantasy land, does not make others biased. I am biased for the best of Chelsea, you need to choose your

I am sure Tino rejected a new deal and Lampard sealed Tomori’s fate loaning him out with buy option.

[Blue Armour 4,176]

11 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

Thought long and hard last night. And could not find a reason why TT should be given time to continue. He has failed to integrate some very very talented youth in tomori, guehi, livramento, tammy. Some of them already had a step in, and we sold them. Infact, we have gone from Tammy to a 33 year old Auba. Yes, the long and short of the whole striker fiasco is that we have given up a very solid no. 9 and got a has been. He clearly has no attacking nuance. His play is shit and boring. His man-management is piss poor as we can see with how lukaku, werner have left. CHO, puli, ziyech want to leave. Whats even more shocking is the amount of rejections we have got. He has no pull as a manager. The number of players who almost shunned the club was embarassing.

All of this aside, I actually wanted to see if he was doing a decent job atleast in terms of winning. I have collated the numbers for PL games for all managers under RA, and its actually baffling

TT: P60, W33, D17, L10, PPM 1.93, W 55%

FL: P58, W28, D11, L18, PPM 1.67, W% 48.3%

Sarri: P38, W21, D9, L8, PPM 1.89, W% 55.2%

Conte: P76, W51, D10, L15, PPM 2.14, W% 67.1%

Benitez: P26, W15, D6, L5, PPM 1.96, W% 57.7%

JM: P211, W140, D44, L27, PPM 2.2, W% 66.3%

AVB: P27, W13, D7, L7, PPM 1.7, W% 48.14%

RDM: P23, W12, D6, L5, PPM 1.83, W% 52.17%

Ancelotti: P76, W48, D13, L15, PPM 2.07, W% 63.1%

Hiddink: P34, W18, D12, L4, PPM 1.94, W% 52.9%

Avram Grant: P33, W22, D8, L3, PPM 2.24, W% 66.6%

Luiz Felipe Scolari: P25, W14, D7, L4, PPM 1.96, W% 56%

Ranieri: P38, W24, D7, L7, PPM 2.08, W% 63.15%

So out of 13 distinct managers under RA, TT is ranked 9th by W% and Point per Match (PPM). And people expect me to get behind him? For what?

RDM won us a CL too, and has a comparitive W% and PPM, but we did not keep shitting our bed with him here. Need to get rid asap. The credit for the CL win has run its course, high time we look at the reality of the situation.

Chelsea as a squad have declined since the Drogba and Hazard eras. We don't have world class attacking players of that ilk.

The last time we won the league, JT was still in the squad.

Our decline in PL win % is not entirely on Tuchel. The only good yardstick for comparison is Lampard