The Tuchel Thread

[blahblahblah 73]

59 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Chelsea as a squad have declined since the Drogba and Hazard eras. We don't have world class attacking players of that ilk.

The last time we won the league, JT was still in the squad.

Our decline in PL win % is not entirely on Tuchel. The only good yardstick for comparison is Lampard 

I disagree mate.  Go back exactly an year and just look at the hype we had. Most of us were expecting to either win the PL or be there-thereabouts. If i told you this time last year, that within a year this Chelsea squad won't even be odds on to make the top4 next year, you would have called me an absolute hater. 

The squad we had last year was good enough to win and atleast challenge for PL. The only squad i would say was poor was under lamps and maybe sarri (aging). 

We have spent 450m in the last 3 summer and that is rumored to go upto 550 or 600m. The talent that we have acquired was the absolute envy of our competitors. We have severely severely under acheived. TT has failed to get the best out of or even integrate any of the new big name signings. Any other manager would have been called out for failing to improve Kai, Werner, Lukaku, ziyech but TT for some reason keeps getting a pass. And these are some big names. Werner was wanted by Liverpool, Kai was wanted by the world, ziyech was considered a magician, Lukaku for all his deficiency is one of the best goal scorers of this era. You can't say that we did not have quality or the squad was not good enough. 

I look at our very rapid decline to mediocrity within a year as failure from manager and management. Not the quality of squad

[Blue Armour 4,176]

55 minutes ago, blahblahblah said:

I disagree mate.  Go back exactly an year and just look at the hype we had. Most of us were expecting to either win the PL or be there-thereabouts. If i told you this time last year, that within a year this Chelsea squad won't even be odds on to make the top4 next year, you would have called me an absolute hater. 

The squad we had last year was good enough to win and atleast challenge for PL. The only squad i would say was poor was under lamps and maybe sarri (aging). 

We have spent 450m in the last 3 summer and that is rumored to go upto 550 or 600m. The talent that we have acquired was the absolute envy of our competitors. We have severely severely under acheived. TT has failed to get the best out of or even integrate any of the new big name signings. Any other manager would have been called out for failing to improve Kai, Werner, Lukaku, ziyech but TT for some reason keeps getting a pass. And these are some big names. Werner was wanted by Liverpool, Kai was wanted by the world, ziyech was considered a magician, Lukaku for all his deficiency is one of the best goal scorers of this era. You can't say that we did not have quality or the squad was not good enough. 

I look at our very rapid decline to mediocrity within a year as failure from manager and management. Not the quality of squad

But there were reasons for us to become a different team this year, right?

The cornerstone of the CL winning side was the tight and efficient defence. Rudiger and Christensen were huge departures which were not Tuchels fault, but rather poor handling of contracts.

The team was plunged into chaos with the sanctions shortly after we won the CWC this year.

I don't have to remind you of the horrible questions Tuchel had to face from the press shortly after the sanctions. No manager would want to go through that. To top it off., he's also went through an expensive divorce around the same time.

I know that's all in the past, but considering all that the club and Tuchel have been through recently, they deserve some slack. Heck, I didn't even complain about Nike, who despite making odd kit designs this year, have at least stuck with us through the sanctions 

But at the same time, I do not like the club shooting itself in the foot. That's why I share some of the same concerns you have over certain signings. Like the Aubemayang one. That's a Tuchel driven decision for sure, and I have strong apprehensions about it. This maybe wouldn't happen with a proper DOF in place. If that move fails, it's all on him.

I'm also apprehensive about Tuchels growing negativity. The Tottenham match seemed to bring it to a boil. Chelsea managers and negativity never do well.

I just hope he can turn it around in the next couple of games.

[blahblahblah 73]

2 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

But there were reasons for us to become a different team this year, right?

The cornerstone of the CL winning side was the tight and efficient defence. Rudiger and Christensen were huge departures which were not Tuchels fault, but rather poor handling of contracts.

The team was plunged into chaos with the sanctions shortly after we won the CWC this year.

I don't have to remind you of the horrible questions Tuchel had to face from the press shortly after the sanctions. No manager would want to go through that. To top it off., he's also went through an expensive divorce around the same time.

I know that's all in the past, but considering all that the club and Tuchel have been through recently, they deserve some slack. Heck, I didn't even complain about Nike, who despite making odd kit designs this year, have at least stuck with us through the sanctions 

But at the same time, I do not like the club shooting itself in the foot. That's why I share some of the same concerns you have over certain signings. Like the Aubemayang one. That's a Tuchel driven decision for sure, and I have strong apprehensions about it. This maybe wouldn't happen with a proper DOF in place. If that move fails, it's all on him.

I'm also apprehensive about Tuchels growing negativity. The Tottenham match seemed to bring it to a boil. Chelsea managers and negativity never do well.

I just hope he can turn it around in the next couple of games.

Rudiger and ac were there for the last season. I feel his tactics have been found out. 

Our only x-factor is kante. When he is on the pitch, he can literally change the game, but other than that, teams have understood how to play us. I don't think that has anything to do with the defence. We did not get demolished by leeds due to defence, it was our mid being overrun. Any mid who can get in jorgi's face will thrive against this team. And we have done nothing to correct it. 

As for TT and the club, we did go through some weird times, but his abysmal league record is not just due to it.

How are people ignoring his utter dismantling of our attacking personnel. I was happy and fine when it seemed that it was just Lukaku who was the issue. But now we are literally selling Werner, ziyech, Puli, cho. So I am to believe that ALL of them are the problem while AUBA-fucking-mayeng is the solution. That is the height of ego from our manager who has just thrown 4-5 players under the bus from his tactical deficiencies. 

I am not willing to give TT a pass just because he had to answer a few tough questions. A lot of us have to go through something personal while keeping a happy face and still trudging through life. All the while not earning in our lifetime what TT is earning in a year. 

I hope we win each remaining game of the season, but i don't expect that to happen. If i was the club, i would be lining up replacements right now while giving TT a couple more months because I don't see any positivity or upside. His transfer targets like auba, gordon are poor. His tactics have been found out. I don't see any players who have improved under him like Salah/Mane under klopp. All i care about the club, and TT does not give me any indication that he is doing good for the club.

[Henrique 9,133]

Right now there is no one in charge. Its clear club lacks any direction, and the new owner put Tuchel in a position hes never been before.

Thats why the club transfer window is pretty erratic. For example: getting rid of both Lukaku and Werner before buying another proper CF. 

Lost both Raphinha and Kounde to Barcelona...and 2 weeks later no other CB or winger arrived. So, the club didnt have any plan b, instead we are now letting Chalobah leave on loan and Zyech is also going back do Ajax.

Madness.

 

 

[Strike 6,992]

1 hour ago, blahblahblah said:

I disagree mate.  Go back exactly an year and just look at the hype we had. Most of us were expecting to either win the PL or be there-thereabouts. If i told you this time last year, that within a year this Chelsea squad won't even be odds on to make the top4 next year, you would have called me an absolute hater. 

The squad we had last year was good enough to win and atleast challenge for PL. The only squad i would say was poor was under lamps and maybe sarri (aging). 

We have spent 450m in the last 3 summer and that is rumored to go upto 550 or 600m. The talent that we have acquired was the absolute envy of our competitors. We have severely severely under acheived. TT has failed to get the best out of or even integrate any of the new big name signings. Any other manager would have been called out for failing to improve Kai, Werner, Lukaku, ziyech but TT for some reason keeps getting a pass. And these are some big names. Werner was wanted by Liverpool, Kai was wanted by the world, ziyech was considered a magician, Lukaku for all his deficiency is one of the best goal scorers of this era. You can't say that we did not have quality or the squad was not good enough. 

I look at our very rapid decline to mediocrity within a year as failure from manager and management. Not the quality of squad

This level of entitlement is problematic. Chelsea were and still are very far off in the league. Chelsea has finished around 15-30 points behind City/Liverpool for the last five seasons with the exception of Liverpool's injury crisis year.

Of course Tuchel is not above scrutiny but this idea that he should be sacked 3 games into his 2nd full season because he has not caught up with a generational Liverpool/City side (accumulating 90+ points) is absurd. Liverpool and City are not envious of the talent at Chelsea apart from James and a fit Kante. They have comfortably better players because they have spent years shaping that squad, signing players who fit the manager's mould.

Liverpool and their process with Klopp is a great example - they finished 8th, 4th and 4th under him but the fans were not calling for his head through this. They picked the market really well and built the team over 2-3 years which became wildly successful.

 

 

[blahblahblah 73]

38 minutes ago, Strike said:

This level of entitlement is problematic. Chelsea were and still are very far off in the league. Chelsea has finished around 15-30 points behind City/Liverpool for the last five seasons with the exception of Liverpool's injury crisis year.

Of course Tuchel is not above scrutiny but this idea that he should be sacked 3 games into his 2nd full season because he has not caught up with a generational Liverpool/City side (accumulating 90+ points) is absurd. Liverpool and City are not envious of the talent at Chelsea apart from James and a fit Kante. They have comfortably better players because they have spent years shaping that squad, signing players who fit the manager's mould.

Liverpool and their process with Klopp is a great example - they finished 8th, 4th and 4th under him but the fans were not calling for his head through this. They picked the market really well and built the team over 2-3 years which became wildly successful.

 

 

It's not entitlement. It's simply not accepting mediocrity. 

At the end of the day, do i feel a Conte, Jose, klopp, pep can get better out of the current squad while solving the issues of the squad with 300m , hell yes. 

That's not entitlement that's basic analysis. 

TT right now seems to be above scrutiny if expecting a title challenge with close to 500m being spent in last 3 seasons seems to be labelled as "entitlement".

Stop the comparision with klopp, it's embarassing. Klopp did not have anywhere near the resources that TT does. Also, klopp's Liverpool's football and the progression was always there to see. Unlike TT. 

 

[Hot Dawg 17]

20 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

Thought long and hard last night. And could not find a reason why TT should be given time to continue. He has failed to integrate some very very talented youth in tomori, guehi, livramento, tammy. Some of them already had a step in, and we sold them. Infact, we have gone from Tammy to a 33 year old Auba. Yes, the long and short of the whole striker fiasco is that we have given up a very solid no. 9 and got a has been. He clearly has no attacking nuance. His play is shit and boring. His man-management is piss poor as we can see with how lukaku, werner have left. CHO, puli, ziyech want to leave. Whats even more shocking is the amount of rejections we have got. He has no pull as a manager. The number of players who almost shunned the club was embarassing.

All of this aside, I actually wanted to see if he was doing a decent job atleast in terms of winning. I have collated the numbers for PL games for all managers under RA, and its actually baffling

TT: P60, W33, D17, L10, PPM 1.93, W 55%

FL: P58, W28, D11, L18, PPM 1.67, W% 48.3%

Sarri: P38, W21, D9, L8, PPM 1.89, W% 55.2%

Conte: P76, W51, D10, L15, PPM 2.14, W% 67.1%

Benitez: P26, W15, D6, L5, PPM 1.96, W% 57.7%

JM: P211, W140, D44, L27, PPM 2.2, W% 66.3%

AVB: P27, W13, D7, L7, PPM 1.7, W% 48.14%

RDM: P23, W12, D6, L5, PPM 1.83, W% 52.17%

Ancelotti: P76, W48, D13, L15, PPM 2.07, W% 63.1%

Hiddink: P34, W18, D12, L4, PPM 1.94, W% 52.9%

Avram Grant: P33, W22, D8, L3, PPM 2.24, W% 66.6%

Luiz Felipe Scolari: P25, W14, D7, L4, PPM 1.96, W% 56%

Ranieri: P38, W24, D7, L7, PPM 2.08, W% 63.15%

So out of 13 distinct managers under RA, TT is ranked 9th by W% and Point per Match (PPM). And people expect me to get behind him? For what?

RDM won us a CL too, and has a comparitive W% and PPM, but we did not keep shitting our bed with him here. Need to get rid asap. The credit for the CL win has run its course, high time we look at the reality of the situation.

Hello @didierforever thought you were banned bruv you should try and downplay the pomposity if you are trying to sneak back in dude. You can't hide in plain sight bruv it's obvs it you ha ha.

[YorkshireBlue 2,853]

22 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

Thought long and hard last night. And could not find a reason why TT should be given time to continue. He has failed to integrate some very very talented youth in tomori, guehi, livramento, tammy. Some of them already had a step in, and we sold them. Infact, we have gone from Tammy to a 33 year old Auba. Yes, the long and short of the whole striker fiasco is that we have given up a very solid no. 9 and got a has been. He clearly has no attacking nuance. His play is shit and boring. His man-management is piss poor as we can see with how lukaku, werner have left. CHO, puli, ziyech want to leave. Whats even more shocking is the amount of rejections we have got. He has no pull as a manager. The number of players who almost shunned the club was embarassing.

All of this aside, I actually wanted to see if he was doing a decent job atleast in terms of winning. I have collated the numbers for PL games for all managers under RA, and its actually baffling

TT: P60, W33, D17, L10, PPM 1.93, W 55%

FL: P58, W28, D11, L18, PPM 1.67, W% 48.3%

Sarri: P38, W21, D9, L8, PPM 1.89, W% 55.2%

Conte: P76, W51, D10, L15, PPM 2.14, W% 67.1%

Benitez: P26, W15, D6, L5, PPM 1.96, W% 57.7%

JM: P211, W140, D44, L27, PPM 2.2, W% 66.3%

AVB: P27, W13, D7, L7, PPM 1.7, W% 48.14%

RDM: P23, W12, D6, L5, PPM 1.83, W% 52.17%

Ancelotti: P76, W48, D13, L15, PPM 2.07, W% 63.1%

Hiddink: P34, W18, D12, L4, PPM 1.94, W% 52.9%

Avram Grant: P33, W22, D8, L3, PPM 2.24, W% 66.6%

Luiz Felipe Scolari: P25, W14, D7, L4, PPM 1.96, W% 56%

Ranieri: P38, W24, D7, L7, PPM 2.08, W% 63.15%

So out of 13 distinct managers under RA, TT is ranked 9th by W% and Point per Match (PPM). And people expect me to get behind him? For what?

RDM won us a CL too, and has a comparitive W% and PPM, but we did not keep shitting our bed with him here. Need to get rid asap. The credit for the CL win has run its course, high time we look at the reality of the situation.

That post is absolutely meaningless. The Premier league has changed so much since some of these managers, so even to compare them its down right stupid. How about you shut up waffling on trying to "outsmart" every 1 by your long dull kid like spitting the dummy out posts and ACTUALLY suggest some players worth signing.

[Jype 6,398]

17 minutes ago, Kong said:

How about you shut up waffling on trying to "outsmart" every 1 by your long dull kid like spitting the dummy out posts and ACTUALLY suggest some players worth signing.

And also intrigued to hear who he suggests should replace Tuchel since he's so adamant TT should be sacked on the spot. He mentioned Pep, Klopp, Conte and Mourinho. The first two are never in a million years realistic while Conte and Mourinho already had their chances at Chelsea.

Would love to hear some ideas who this whiny bitch thinks will take us to the level of City under Pep or Liverpool under Klopp while using this same group of players.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Jype

[Superblue 6,333]

Just now, Jype said:

And also intrigued to hear who he suggests should replace Tuchel since he's so adamant TT should be sacked on the spot. He mentioned Pep, Klopp, Conte and Mourinho. The first two are never in a million years realistic while Conte and Mourinho already had their chances at Chelsea.

Would love to hear some ideas who this whiny bitch thinks will take us to the level of City under Pep or Liverpool under Klopp while using this same group of players.

He already made suggestions the other day - Eddie Howe and Poch.

One got relegated in his last job despite huge amounts of money being spent and the other managed a Spurs side we heard endlessly at the time from the English media was an incredible team and his biggest achievement was putting some pressure on.

They sound like two absolute guarantees of success!

[manpe 10,857]

Feel some of the insults thrown at blahblah are uncalled for. Why is it necessary to call him a whiny bitch if he/she doesn't conform to the norm? I for one think he makes some good points. I'm all for giving TT this full season, but if there isn't any improvement after the money spent, and especially if we fail to make top 4, questions need to be asked. Too early for that at the moment though.

Edited August 23, 2022 by manpe

[blahblahblah 73]

32 minutes ago, Jype said:

And also intrigued to hear who he suggests should replace Tuchel since he's so adamant TT should be sacked on the spot. He mentioned Pep, Klopp, Conte and Mourinho. The first two are never in a million years realistic while Conte and Mourinho already had their chances at Chelsea.

Would love to hear some ideas who this whiny bitch thinks will take us to the level of City under Pep or Liverpool under Klopp while using this same group of players.

Seriously whiny bitch? Did not know name calling is fine on here.

I guess anything goes when trying to protect TT 

[Jype 6,398]

2 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

I guess anything goes when trying to protect TT 

Nah I have no interest in 'protecting' Tuchel, I'll criticize him when he deserves it and give him credit when due. Just have zero interest nor time to read posts that just moan and whine about everything without having anything constructive to say.

[blahblahblah 73]

3 minutes ago, Jype said:

Nah I have no interest in 'protecting' Tuchel, I'll criticize him when he deserves it and give him credit when due. Just have zero interest nor time to read posts that just moan and whine about everything without having anything constructive to say.

True. Cause name calling is really constructive, right? 

I have my opinions, you can have yours. There is no need to start name calling and acting like a 12 year old. Learn to respect another's opinion. 

I have not been disrespectful to anyone on here. I do have strong opinions and it's based out of my love for the club. You can be on the polar opposite end of it and that's fine. But again, there is no need for such a thing.

[Clockwork 1,770]

I remember many people here didn’t want anything to do with Tuchel when we were looking to replace Lampard. The popular choice was max Allegri. I argued for Tuchel over him, i still stand by that. Now people are claiming Tuchel is a top 3 manager, the same people who wanted nothing to do with him.

I look at body of work. I am not ready to sack Tuchel, even before the recent results i was at the point of having serious doubts building this team. 

[ZAPHOD2319 3,938]

The name calling ends or those people doing it will not be welcomed to continue here. Also of note is that if members are adding nothing positive to Talk Chelsea, they will not be welcomed to continue either. FFS I have spent the entire day working with 10 years olds and they are conducting themselves better than people in this thread. We are all grown and should be able to converse with each other as adults. I can only hope much of this has to do with the shaky start to the season. 

[YorkshireBlue 2,853]

4 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

True. Cause name calling is really constructive, right? 

I have my opinions, you can have yours. There is no need to start name calling and acting like a 12 year old. Learn to respect another's opinion. 

I have not been disrespectful to anyone on here. I do have strong opinions and it's based out of my love for the club. You can be on the polar opposite end of it and that's fine. But again, there is no need for such a thing.

🤦‍♂️

Edited August 23, 2022 by Kong

[lucio 5,418]

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