The Tuchel Thread

[Reddish-Blue 2,510]

17 minutes ago, Pizy said:

This isn’t a case where we were doing well, then there was a turning point where everything went wrong, and now the players turned on the manager. That’s what makes this so confusing.

I don’t really get the vibe that the players have turned on him at all. It just looks like whatever he’s doing in training isn’t working AT ALL for whatever reason. 

To be honest, the start of last season, things were going relatively well, then we sort of struggled, then we had issues at the back end of last season with Lukaku wanting out.   The start of this season is just replicating what happened at the end of last season.  There are CLEARLY two players who don't want to be here (Pulisic and Ziyech) and not only did we keep them, we're actually playing them.  

I would be shocked if Fulham don't win the match on the weekend, Mitrovic will have a field day against our CB's.   This has shades of that infamous Mourinho season where we were 15th or 16th before Uncle Guus came in to paper over the cracks. 

[Superblue 6,372]

4 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I know. But the players turning on the manager at the very start of a season just makes no sense. It usually happens after months of poor results. Why would they down tools when things have barely started to get going?

I think this is all down to training and tactics. Whatever he’s doing with them during the week must be going stale or something. 

It's not the case of a brand new manager though. Mourinho's third season started as a train wreck, as did Conte's second season and neither improved much if at all. 

It's easy in times like this to think it's been no worse before. I remember the 2-0 loss against Leicester under Lampard, the Watford loss under Conte and multiple performances under Mourinho that were similar to this. 

The managers don't get a free pass. At the end of the day it is their job to find solutions and motivate and create an environment for players to thrive in. But let's not get it twisted there has been a cultural toxicity within the club almost throughout the Roman era. One which lent too much power to the players over 'dispensable' managers. Once those big characters started to leave the club one by one, the ability to go again under a new manager and new voice in the changing room began to wane but that culture has still remained at the club. 

Whether it's Tuchel or an alternative they pick, it's one of the things that the new ownership have to change because at present it feels a never ending cycle.

[Henrique 9,133]

Im 100% against the idea of sacking Tuchel right now, for one simple reason: this time there is no one in charge of the football activity. There is no proper director of football, and disaster of the last transfer window is a proof. I mean, the team was the top spender, and yet the squad is weaker than it was last season. Liverpool, City, Arsenal, United, Spurs have better squads. 

Right now the club have 0 direction, and it was expected. I mean, the club was sold in a hurry and out of nowhere there is a new owner, the previous board completely left the club. So, building a new direction takes time. 

About the "power to player" thing, this is nonsense. I mean, in any football club in the world, the stability comes from above. The so called "managers" nowadays are no more than coaches, and they are "dispensable". It happens in every professional club. Guardiola went to City, because he realized that there were people running the club that would allow him to implement his ideas. City, to other side, hired Guardiola. He is not your average manager, he is a different breed of manager. He is probbaly one of few managers in the world that is as big as players in terms of sucess and name, and in some cases, he is the biggest star of the club. 

Since Mourinho MK1, we never had a manager of this caliber. Tuchel isnt this kind of manager, he is a good manager, but he has his limitations, but right now, it doesnt make sense to sack him. This season is the first time the excuse of "transition" makes sense. Priority this season must be building a new board that understand what football is and hiring people who understand what it takes to build a sucessfull club. Say whatever you want about previous board, but Chelsea was by far the most successful english club of past 20 years, in terms of major trophies won.

[DDA 9,941]

I do not agree with these ridiculous statements, ''our squad is weaker than last season'' and ''we've signed poor players''

The only player that looks bang out of sorts is KK.

The rest of our signings are really good acquisitions and I'm more than confident they will come good.

Sterling is an upgrade on Werner all day long.

Cucarella was absolutely needed in case Chilly gets injured.

Aubameyang is twice the player Lukaku is... don't even try telling me anything different.

Fofana is extremely promising but its alot to expect a youngster to shine when they team is playing this badly.

Unfortunately TT has spent too much time trying to force this bullshit 3 at the back to help Thiago Silva play. I get it, Thiago brings alot to the team but in doing so, TT has completely lost it, he'll bent on sticking with a system that no longer suits the personal at his disposal. 

It's time to drop your favourites and play the right person in their correct position or just fuck off and let a manager come in and use the abundance of talent we do have. 

 

[Clockwork 1,794]

5 hours ago, Vegetable said:

Same talk with Sarri and same talk with Lampard; Those players are not (mostly) children, it's not like they play Tuchel FC, so what's the point of mentality they show on the pitch right now? They should be acceptably good with any manager and even without one.  

Sarri was playing good football by the end of the season, he just needed a few more players. His trajectory was up, Tuchel trajectory has been down for a while.

[Clockwork 1,794]

How about Luis Enrique? He pretty much did what Pep did at Barca but with a better winning percentage.

[Henrique 9,133]

1 hour ago, DDA said:

I do not agree with these ridiculous statements, ''our squad is weaker than last season'' and ''we've signed poor players''

The only player that looks bang out of sorts is KK.

The rest of our signings are really good acquisitions and I'm more than confident they will come good.

Sterling is an upgrade on Werner all day long.

Cucarella was absolutely needed in case Chilly gets injured.

Aubameyang is twice the player Lukaku is... don't even try telling me anything different.

Fofana is extremely promising but its alot to expect a youngster to shine when they team is playing this badly.

Unfortunately TT has spent too much time trying to force this bullshit 3 at the back to help Thiago Silva play. I get it, Thiago brings alot to the team but in doing so, TT has completely lost it, he'll bent on sticking with a system that no longer suits the personal at his disposal. 

It's time to drop your favourites and play the right person in their correct position or just fuck off and let a manager come in and use the abundance of talent we do have. 

 

Squad is weaker, and its not even a top 5 material. Its weaker because compared to the opposition, the team was left behind, despite being the top spender. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Henrique

[DDA 9,941]

17 minutes ago, Henrique said:

Squad is weaker, and its not even a top 5 material. Its weaker because compared to the opposition, the team was left behind, despite being the top spender. 

How is it weaker? 

The only good player we lost is Rudiger.

Christensen was hit and miss. 

Lukaku is an absolute donkey.

Werner couldn't hit a barn door and when he did hit it, his pathetic finishing was show to be just that against a goalkeeper of note.

The problem is Tuchel with his indecisive tinkering of formation and tactics whilst trying to shoehorn certain players into a system that doesn't suit them. He also fucked up not prioritising a midfielder to replace Kante. 

 

[Blue Armour 4,448]

6 hours ago, Special Juan said:

Let me make this as clear as possible, the players have chucked it.

TT is outnumbered.

That's what I've been fearing for the past few weeks.

Why they've chucked it is another question altogether.

Did the squad not like Tuchel becoming an executioner and chucking out figures like Lukaku/Werner ? Blocking Azpi's transfer...and sidelining others like Pulisic/Ziyech?

From the eyes of the fans, those were much needed changes. But I'm not sure how the squad is taking these changes internally.

I hope Boehly had a word with the squad after this showing. If he wants Tuchel to continue, he needs to express that he is going to be backed.

Else, this squad will quietly pull the rug out from under Tuchel's feet.

 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

52 minutes ago, Henrique said:

Squad is weaker, and its not even a top 5 material. Its weaker because compared to the opposition, the team was left behind, despite being the top spender. 

Dude! it's easier to blame the manager ("eh sempre of tecnico!") 😉 We always love our players even when they suck.
Seriously tho, of course it's weaker 🙂 and the results will corroborate that with or without Tuchel -- he can't fix this shit.

@Blue ArmourTo your (and Sp Juan's) point, it does not take a full rebellion at this level: all it takes is a couple of players not giving that 100% and spaces will be found by the opposition. This is what players themself say: they have a lot of power.

Plus, I hope folks are noticing that, but the PL is getting tougher by the minute and there are very few really small clubs left. Most mid table clubs have internationals playing for them. Except crystal palace and fucking saha -- they both suck.

Edited September 7, 2022 by robsblubot

[Blue Armour 4,448]

Based on Chelsea's past when it comes down to squad vs manager, squad always used to win.

If Tuchel stands a chance of turning this around., he needs to start from square one again.

I'm not talking about just benching every single first teamer (that would just cause an outright revolt among the players). 

He needs to bench some of the key underperformers for an extended period of time (and not just a game or 2). Drop Mount. Bring in some of the new youth signings.

Drop KK (this one is really important, because the guy is turning out to be dud). Either change the formation to play with just 2 CBs and or play Chalobah instead. Give the new CM from Juventus a run out.

Yes, we've been terrible with a back 4, but with a different CB combo and more importantly, the right midfield combo, it can change. Back 5 atm is only giving us a false sense of defensive security while offering virtually nothing in attack.

Also, he needs to avoid bringing on players like Pulisic or Ziyech. These players don't care about the team. It sucks that we still have them on the bench, like dressing room poison.

[Clockwork 1,794]

I am not a reactionary person, I was very critical of Tuchel before the season even started. Living off a CL run.

 

 

[Blue Armour 4,448]

28 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

 

@Blue ArmourTo your (and Sp Juan's) point, it does not take a full rebellion at this level: all it takes is a couple of players not giving that 100% and spaces will be found by the opposition. This is what players themself say: they have a lot of power.

 

If its just 2 or so players not giving 100%, that can be rectified by dropping them and seeing what happens.

And that's what I'm suggesting he has to do to at least try turning things around.

The problem is, it seems more deep rooted than just a couple of disgruntled players.

[robsblubot 3,595]

22 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

If its just 2 or so players not giving 100%, that can be rectified by dropping them and seeing what happens.

And that's what I'm suggesting he has to do to at least try turning things around.

The problem is, it seems more deep rooted than just a couple of disgruntled players.

indeed. Players are a very united group who talk among themselves more than we think they do.

A couple/few unhappy players will have an effect in the group. Sometimes the solution for that is actually competition, so that players trying to get minutes will give that extra 10% which can be contagious.

And when I say 110%, I don't mean in games only but at practice too: that's where a manager have to spot when a player is not really engaged, so I agree that Tuchel can help himself there. 

 

[Special Juan 28,146]

Wait until we arrive in that tight little field of Craven Cottage on Saturday for an early kick off. the crowd could beat us never mind Fulham.

[manpe 10,861]

4 hours ago, DDA said:

Unfortunately TT has spent too much time trying to force this bullshit 3 at the back to help Thiago Silva play. I get it, Thiago brings alot to the team but in doing so, TT has completely lost it, he'll bent on sticking with a system that no longer suits the personal at his disposal. 

 

That doesn't really hold up because Silva didn't play yesterday. We stuck with 3 atb even when going for the equalizer, probably because we were afraid to concede more, and even played Cucurella at LCB. Problem is that with 4 atb we don't look more like scoring, but we do seem more likely to concede. I don't know, it's a conundrum, the team isn't playing well in any system atm.

Edited September 7, 2022 by manpe

[We Hate Scouse 10,327]

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/article/Chelsea-football-club-part-company-with-thomas-tuchel

 

[milka 3,393]

 

[Special Juan 28,146]

Knew it, seen it coming an absolute mile off. The players chucked it, this was coming and I was shot down by certain members here when I said it last week.

TB was never going to put up with shite that was being served up

[milka 3,393]