The Tuchel Thread

[Clockwork 1,764]

5 hours ago, Tomo said:

It's not as linear as that. Klopp took two and a half years (and the best GK, CB and CDM in the world) to break away from the level we're currently at.

The team Tuchel inherited is much more talented and pricy.

Am I advocating to sack Tuchel? No, I just think I have my doubts if Tuchel can take us to City and Pool level. 
 

Klopp built Dortmund and had a track record of building team, Tuchel doesn’t have that. 
 

 

[Clockwork 1,764]

Tuchel quotes regarding Kante sound like a huge excuse. No we are not where we are because Kante has not been fully healthy, 

[Blue Armour 4,165]

11 hours ago, Clockwork said:

 

Pep and Klopp showed improvement every year, with Tuchel it is the opposite We were better in his first couple of months than we are now.

 

Tuchel has completed just 1.5 years at the club.

How is that a realistic sample space for what you're claiming?

Also, it quite literally has been an improvement. From 4th to 3rd. So its the opposite of what you said.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Blue Armour

[OneMoSalah 8,615]

On 17/05/2022 at 05:56, Strike said:

Well deserved. He's the glue holding the club together in the last two months

Precisely.

Plus, not to mention the fact he has had to suffer all the Russian/Ukraine questions over the months because of Roman-Putin links, all the ownership questions and a on a personal level a separation from his wife too. Its been a tough few months.

Anyone questioning if he is the right man to lead this club next season and beyond, or anyone who has any doubts should be giving themselves a reality check.

The one thing that will be an absolute necessity after this takeover goes through, is that we keep the guy who has played a huge huge huge part in the last year and a half here. It is clear we need reinforcing in key areas. The manager seat isn’t one. Better finishing and we would of had much more points. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by OneMoSalah

[Strike 6,964]

14 hours ago, Clockwork said:

No doubt Tuchel had some solid results against those teams, but H2H only prove unique advantages. Over 38 games we see the team quality as a whole. 
 

Pep and Klopp showed improvement every year, with Tuchel it is the opposite We were better in his first couple of months than we are now.

I don’t see Tuchel in the same realm as Pep and Klopp, I see those guys as visionary and club builders. Tuchel is more like Carlo, game day manager driven and focused. 

Pep investment first two years - Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Zinchenko, Jesus, Bravo, Nolito, B Silva, Ederson, Walker, Danilo, Mendy, Laporte.

Klopp investment first two years - Wijnaldum, Mane, Matip, Karius, Salah, Robertson, Chamberlain, VVD (in Jan)

Tuchel - Lukaku...

[Superblue 6,331]

4 hours ago, Strike said:

Pep investment first two years - Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Zinchenko, Jesus, Bravo, Nolito, B Silva, Ederson, Walker, Danilo, Mendy, Laporte.

Klopp investment first two years - Wijnaldum, Mane, Matip, Karius, Salah, Robertson, Chamberlain, VVD (in Jan)

Tuchel - Lukaku...

Huge turnover of players for both managers. To give it further context, we have a lot of players still at the club in some capacity who were here under Conte, and most were at least here under Sarri. 3 or 4 managers have come and gone and that's a big reason why some players get a fresh start, new lease of life, for the short term but ultimately for the long term they're simply not good enough.

Our recruitment has never been the strongest and it's rarely followed a pattern with regards to the type of players we're bringing in for a particular style. We'll regularly go for the player that's 'flavour of the month' without a real plan for how that player might fit in and it's the main reason why we're left with a talented but imbalanced squad. You can argue Klopp and Liverpool were behind the curve and needed more rebuilding, although he was afforded a lot more time before Liverpool actually started mounting challenges.

But Pep had a talented squad at City. They'd won the league just 12 months prior to him coming on board, and it's easy to forget that first season was a real adjustment period for him. They were miles off the pace we set. Tuchel coming in and getting an immediate response was very impressive.

The issue Tuchel has faced like so many before him is the Chelsea job is so short term. If he knew he would have been afforded the time to build something here, would he have sanctioned the Lukaku deal? Would he be prepared to evolve and completely rip up the back 3 which gave that initial success for a more longer term change that if results don't go well he'll likely not be here to see through. The pressures here are completely different to what Klopp and Pep experience at City and Liverpool. Klopp wouldn't have had that time he enjoyed at Liverpool to get things right.

The key here is from what reports suggest, the new ownership is very high on Tuchel and although we won't know until they're in the door, I think they'll show more patience to a project. The American owners are generally much more patient in their approach. Tuchel should be given not just the resources but the time to get things right and build something here now which wouldn't have been possible under Roman. We don't have hindsight and will have to maybe look back in 18 - 24 months time to see how we've progressed but I am quietly confident that we've got the right man at the helm to start this rebuilding process.

[Clockwork 1,764]

7 hours ago, Strike said:

Pep investment first two years - Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Zinchenko, Jesus, Bravo, Nolito, B Silva, Ederson, Walker, Danilo, Mendy, Laporte.

Klopp investment first two years - Wijnaldum, Mane, Matip, Karius, Salah, Robertson, Chamberlain, VVD (in Jan)

Tuchel - Lukaku...

We brought Havertz, Werner, Ziyech, Chilly. Six months before he took over.

[Superblue 6,331]

42 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

We brought Havertz, Werner, Ziyech, Chilly. Six months before he took over.

The point is though he hasn't bought those players. 

They might have freshened up the squad but they're players that the board and/or Lampard have chosen.

Those players Pep and Klopp have bought in within the first 2 years of their reigns are their own players that they've hand picked to help build the squad they want. It's completely different.

[Clockwork 1,764]

32 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

The point is though he hasn't bought those players. 

They might have freshened up the squad but they're players that the board and/or Lampard have chosen.

Those players Pep and Klopp have bought in within the first 2 years of their reigns are their own players that they've hand picked to help build the squad they want. It's completely different.

Tuchel doesn’t have a successful track record of signing players. With Lukaku 0/1 at Chelsea. 

Anyway he is going to get opportunity to make big changes to the squad, players contracts are running out and some players are just not playing at Chelsea quality.

if Alonso and Azpi are here next season playing a lot of football that is on Tuchel, because they should be out of the door if he can’t convince the club that is his fault.

I don’t even know what Tuchel type of players are, outside of CBs he is not getting the best out of anyone at Chelsea.

[Superblue 6,331]

1 hour ago, Clockwork said:

Tuchel doesn’t have a successful track record of signing players. With Lukaku 0/1 at Chelsea. 

Anyway he is going to get opportunity to make big changes to the squad, players contracts are running out and some players are just not playing at Chelsea quality.

if Alonso and Azpi are here next season playing a lot of football that is on Tuchel, because they should be out of the door if he can’t convince the club that is his fault.

I don’t even know what Tuchel type of players are, outside of CBs he is not getting the best out of anyone at Chelsea.

I don't know if we'll ever know the full story regarding Lukaku, maybe when parties are no longer at the club but I'm reluctant to put more than partial blame on Tuchel for that move because I think there were people within the boardroom or scouting department who wanted him more.

PSG similarly, I've no idea the level of influence he had on transfers but I'm pretty sure Leonardo has a greater influence.

Dortmund I agree was hit and miss, but I believe he did oversee them buy Dembele and Isak for reasonable fees which would suggest that he does have an eye for younger talent and to be honest that is rather the route I would see us go down in the future as opposed to buying the ready made product for huge money because we inevitably seem to get that always wrong.

[Clockwork 1,764]

34 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I don't know if we'll ever know the full story regarding Lukaku, maybe when parties are no longer at the club but I'm reluctant to put more than partial blame on Tuchel for that move because I think there were people within the boardroom or scouting department who wanted him more.

PSG similarly, I've no idea the level of influence he had on transfers but I'm pretty sure Leonardo has a greater influence.

Dortmund I agree was hit and miss, but I believe he did oversee them buy Dembele and Isak for reasonable fees which would suggest that he does have an eye for younger talent and to be honest that is rather the route I would see us go down in the future as opposed to buying the ready made product for huge money because we inevitably seem to get that always wrong.

I am hoping Tuchel has a plan and create a team to fit his image and style. But I don’t have the same belief because what I have seen doesn’t suggest that.

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,199]

What is Tuchel's imagine and style?

 

[Clockwork 1,764]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

What is Tuchel's imagine and style?

 

Good question, what is it? For pep and Klopp I know exactly how to answer that question.

[MoroccanBlue 5,199]

1 hour ago, Clockwork said:

Good question, what is it? For pep and Klopp I know exactly how to answer that question.

Everything I've heard from Tuchel regarding this slow possession play he seems completely contempt with. We can blame injuries, sanctions, etc, etc, but the main problem for me will always be tactics. 

That being said, Tuchel has deserved and earned time to build his team. 

[DDA 9,570]

3 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Everything I've heard from Tuchel regarding this slow possession play he seems completely contempt with. We can blame injuries, sanctions, etc, etc, but the main problem for me will always be tactics. 

That being said, Tuchel has deserved and earned time to build his team. 

The main problem is we have too many players that unfortunately are very limited in what they can do on the ball and off it. Tuchels hands are pretty juch tied at the moment. Let's see what he does when he has his own influx of players but let's also remember he needs more than one transfer window to do so. 

[Clockwork 1,764]

On 20/05/2022 at 20:55, DDA said:

The main problem is we have too many players that unfortunately are very limited in what they can do on the ball and off it. Tuchels hands are pretty juch tied at the moment. Let's see what he does when he has his own influx of players but let's also remember he needs more than one transfer window to do so. 

There maybe some truth I don’t think he utilizes players to their best.

many are excited about Gallagher but man I fear Tuchel will plug him in his 3-5-2, and that recipe for a disaster and he will perform poorly. That is not Gallagher fault he is just not that type of midfielder. 

[Milan 17,835]

 

[Pizy 17,860]

Pretty much every quote form Tuchel about this summer makes him seem genuinely scared and worried. Hopefully Boehly makes funds available as soon as possible after everything is sorted so we can get a couple of signings in early to ease Tuchel’s concern.

I pray that the football people at the club (be it Marina, Cech, the scouts etc) are ready to hit the ground running immediately.