closed Chelsea 3-0 West Ham

[NikkiCFC 7,587]

11 minutes ago, Strike said:

Liverpool has an elite squad around this unheard of player and they play to protect the kid.

Are you speaking about Kelleher or Williams or Jones? Nothing elite in this defence. We should have better midfield as well, at least on paper but we don't. Why? Week later we lost against the same Wolves side. 

[Strike 6,964]

32 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Are you speaking about Kelleher or Williams or Jones? Nothing elite in this defence. We should have better midfield as well, at least on paper but we don't. Why? Week later we lost against the same Wolves side. 

When Williams/Phillios is thrown into that defense, it has Robertson, Fabinho who are better than our crop and the team has a set style of playing. Some of our players maybe comparable - Chilwell, Silva etc but Liverpool's current team is a different level to ours in teamwork, aggression, coordinated pressing. 

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, Tomo said:

Did you take a break throughout Conte's last six months?

Nobody wants to remember those 6 months!

[Jase 43,479]

4 hours ago, Mana said:

We are very capable to losing to West Ham. The way we are currently playing sucks balls and West Ham’s recent record against us heavily favours them.

I can’t even laugh at Arsenal anymore because another loss (or draw) on Monday will also put us in relegation form. Then we face them next where our record vs. Arsenal has been spotty. Losing to them when Arsenal are on free fall will finish me.

The Wolves result has really drained me and I am close to believing top 4 is gone. Especially if we lose to West Ham.

Good...maybe you will disappear from here for good. 

I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise since it's coming from you but one would think this is the 34th league game of the season and not the 14th going by your point about the Top 4.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

Apart from last season when Ole turned it around and saved his job, a team that is mid table or worse by Christmas doesn’t finish in the top 4. 

But what's the usual points gap between someone in mid-table and someone in 4th? Can't remember the last time we had a season this crazy where only 5-6 points separate the team in 2nd and team in 10th. At worst, we would likely be only 4 points behind the Top 4, which is hardly an insurmountable gap after 14 games, is it? Everton were in 7th a week ago and looked to be in a mess but they're suddenly up to 2nd/into the Top 4 after 3 consecutive wins out of nowhere.

[Special Juan 27,103]

Mendy

Azpi Silva Zouma Chilwell

Kante

Mount.          Kovacic

Ziyech(if fit)                             Pulisic

Werner

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Mana said:

Actually at worse by the end of this matchday we can be 8 points behind top 4.

That is already a massive hill to climb.

How did you get 8 points? If Spurs and especially United win later, they will be at 28 and 26 points respectively and United (or Everton, depending on the GD) will be the one in 4th. We have 22 points now; that's only 4 points behind. 

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

Then it’s down to you believing Lampard can make up those points and get top 4. After what he has done so far, what makes you think we will get it? We still don’t have a constant good style of play!

I have my doubts about things but this is all very "I told you so!" from you, after a bad result or two, while nothing was really said during the unbeaten run. 

[Jase 43,479]

18 minutes ago, Mana said:

Ah, I was only looking at Leicester who currently occupy 4th place with a game in hand. And that should have been 7 points ahead not 8, my bad.

Regardless, the gap to the top 4 would only be 2, 3 or 4 points before we kick off tomorrow.

19 minutes ago, Mana said:

And really? Are we going to go through that debunked hill of “Mana only talks if we lose” stuff again?

Fairly certain your post count is higher after a bad result or when we're on a poor run compared to after a win or when we're on a good run of form. 

[Vesper 27,324]

13 minutes ago, Mana said:

People last season were comparing Lamps to Klopp and Pep (just like they did with Sarri) while saying Lamps isn’t our Ole. FFS.

who?

LOLOL

other than some rando troll whose post I missed IF they did that, I have have nothing like that

and fuck Sarri

never wanted him, hated what he did, he fucking did his level best to destroy our best player, Kante

and brought in dross and blocks sales of more dross

[Vesper 27,324]

52 minutes ago, Mana said:

I’m not that petty to name the guys that did. But yes, there were people who compared him (and Sarri) to Klopp and Pep.

I did not see that, and its not bad to point it out, I you make the comment, expect it come back to haunt you

I had it happen with Kante and Zouma (in my defence with Zouma Thiago and Mendy have helped a tonne, and Kante simply was much more injured than he let on and now is healthy)

[Atomiswave 6,072]

In no shape or form is our Lamps comparable to klopp and pep, he has a long road to go to even get in that conversation, he might get there but def not atm.

[Vesper 27,324]

Just now, Atomiswave said:

In no shape or form is our Lamps comparable to klopp and pep, he has a long road to go to even get in that conversation, he might get there but def not atm.

I say name these people who said that

I really do not recall that

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Just now, Vesper said:

I say name these people who said that

I really do not recall that

Nah not gonna throw anyone under the buss mate, but a few folks did mention klopp and pep last season. There is no comparison to be made, both were proven winners before their current gigs. FL not so much on that front.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Honestly? I don’t see why not. I said from day ONE that I do not believe in this coach. I looked at Ole and that is not what I wanted in our football club.

Lampard had to prove to ME why he’s the best coach for this club. Then I’ll believe in him and eat humble pie from you folks. He hasn’t.

When I said all these things at the beginning of Lamps’ tenure, the amount of abuse I got was astonishing. From you especially.

People last season were comparing Lamps to Klopp and Pep (just like they did with Sarri) while saying Lamps isn’t our Ole. FFS.

I’m sorry, but after the amount of abuse I had to go through last season and early parts of this season, I have in my right to go “I told you so” once Lamps gets sacked. I know a good coach when I see one. Lampard isn’t a good coach (right now anyway) hence why I do not believe in him.

No wonder you always complain. You never even gave him a chance to succeed to begin with. The minute something goes wrong, you will always use it to justify yourself while when things are going well, you do not say much because they do not correspond with your initial feeling. Hope god gives us a manager one day that will win every game, win every trophy to please you to the heaven.

You are also missing the point about the comparison with Klopp and Guardiola. They were used as examples because they were given time to build their squad. They were not used as direct comparison on managerial level to Lampard. 

Not going to sit here and say Lampard will be a great manager because I have also been critical of him and he still has a lot to prove to be one but is it not obvious at the very least that a new, successful team takes time to build - regardless of who is the manager? Ever since Mourinho stepped through the doors in 2004, we always have had a ready made team to win things, with the exception of the 2012 team but even that one took 2 seasons before we won the league etc and this team as well. Just like every other Chelsea fan, am also used to that instant winning feeling but is too much to just have that bit of tiny patience for once? I have no idea whether things will turn out to be good or bad under Lampard because this club in general have been unpredictable for years now but is it hard to just maybe be patient a little?

Moreover and while this is no excuse to keep a manager for the sake of it, how often are we going to keep on sacking managers? Every time we have a new manager, people would be like 'yay' but the minute something goes wrong under him, people would be trying to chase him out, people would always complain about something after a while (I may have been guilty of this in the past). This has happened under almost every manager at some point. Do we really want to see it continue? We have chopped and changed the manager every 1-2 years in the last decade. At some point, no top manager would want take this job if they see past managers aren't given time to succeed and will be thrown out of the window the minute something goes wrong. They would rather go to Liverpool, Man City etc knowing they will be given time to succeed there. 

[Jase 43,479]

23 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I say name these people who said that

I really do not recall that

They were used as examples because they were given time to build their squad. They were not used as direct comparison on managerial level to Lampard. 

[Tomo 21,681]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

I’m not that petty to name the guys that did. But yes, there were people who compared him (and Sarri) to Klopp and Pep.

And I and others have addressed you on this numerous times, it wasn't about comparing them, it was about pointing out that a lot of the problems last season (and the first few games of this) were more personal than structural (for example I recall you on many occasions stated the defense would never improve under Lampard regardless of who we had in it, wrong!) and their early spells at City/Liverpool had similar issues (no one was saying Lampard would bring a 100 point title win or even a standard one, more was the point that if he couldn't he could at the very least leave a solid team/structure for one that could). But to play your game let's ignore those two examples and give one's of managers with no real track record who got time and the club's were rewarded. Klopp himself at Dortmund, Brendan Rodgers at Liverpool, Pochettino at Spurs and Sarri at Napoli, all had so so starts to life at those clubs and all (scaled for club resources) ended up having great peaks.

Also if the "proven track record" thing really is you're true feelings towards it all, then why weren't you demanding Jose's return or Wenger's appointment after Sarri left (as they was by far the two most decorated active manager's available), infact, why did you want Jose sacked in 2015?

[Tomo 21,681]

2 hours ago, Mana said:

What, do you want me to still complain/moan about Lampard after a positive victory?

Well yes, if that's how you truly feel.

You may get a bit of "grief" for it but if you stick to your guns when on winning/unbeaten runs that will only strengthen your position, think of it similar to how i didn't budge on James when he had a bit of a sticky spell and the "we sold the wrong fullback" narrative gained traction.

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, Mana said:

They were also comparing Lampard’s style of play. Not just they all had time.

A manager would still need time to implement a style of play. Now, whether Lampard's style of play is effective or not effective so far is a different debate altogether.

12 minutes ago, Mana said:

I didn’t turn against Sarri until the turn of the year when he was being stubborn. I hate stubborn coaches especially when things are turning south. 

Yes but you still turned anyway.

12 minutes ago, Mana said:

As said above, Lampard is a different case because he somehow reminds me of Ole. Hazard left us, a transfer ban has been applied to us and....we are giving the job to guy with no experience?

The only successful manager available in the summer of 2019 was Allegri but I think he wanted to take a sabbatical and the club were probably done with Italian managers after Conte and Sarri back-to-back. There were no other big name managers out there. I remember we were linked with some underwhelming managers back then and one of them was Javi Gracia, who of course got spanked 7-0 with Watford against Man City in the FA Cup final and then got sacked a few games into the new season last year.

17 minutes ago, Mana said:

Ok he’s not Arteta-bad, but he’s not better than Ole. And Ole’s a terrible coach. I can be patient if I see something. If we lose 4-2 but we have been peppering the opposition, or we lose because of a VAR decision or we lose simply because of Kepa (and nothing else)...if I see a constant good style of play. But what we saw these past two games are the like the majority of Lamps’ tenure.

So because of what happened in the last 2 games, we should just ignore the good things that happened in other games, in games that we won etc?

18 minutes ago, Mana said:

Real Madrid do it. Barcelona do it. Why is it Chelsea we should be ashamed of doing it? If the manager is doing shite, why keep him? He’s getting paid well by the club, he should be doing a job to get the BEST of these players. This is what Conte did in his first season.

Yeah and look at some of the underwhelming managers they have appointed recently, especially Barcelona. Madrid went back to Zidane and their results and performances have been inconsistent while also having an ageing squad of sorts. Barcelona, on the other hand, are a mess off and on the pitch. There's a political battle at board level, they have an average and ageing squad of players, their best player wants out and they have a manager, who despite his years of experience, hasn't achieved much at club level outside of the Netherlands. Which of the recent manager at Real Madrid and Barcelona - apart from maybe Zidane - made you go like "wow, they have a top class manager in charge"? You can keep on chopping and changing managers but at some point, you're gonna have to scrap the barrels for whatever average manager that is out there.