The Tuchel Thread

[Blue Armour 4,158]

Just now, Jase said:

But that was 2 seasons ago now and it was during his purple patch in the Project Restart period. Also, that goal came from a breakaway in a set piece where City fucked up their defending, IIRC. Any of our other attackers could have been in that situation (whether they score or not is a different matter). Otherwise, he has been largely underwhelming since then. I'm also mystified when people say Pulisic run in behind defences. Yes, he can do that but that's not his natural game. He's one who prefers to receive the ball to feet and then get at players, which again, is something he hasn't done much with at all since the Project Restart. 

Well personally, I wouldn't have wanted him to start at all. Apart from the first half goal against Liverpool there hasn't been much to talk about.

I was trying to look at it from Tuchel's perspective. 

More than him alone starting, I was more bothered about Tuchel opting for that front 3 combo against City.

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Well personally, I wouldn't have wanted him to start at all. Apart from the first half goal against Liverpool there hasn't been much to talk about.

I was trying to look at it from Tuchel's perspective. 

More than him alone starting, I was more bothered about Tuchel opting for that front 3 combo against City.

My guess is that he probably got spooked out by what happened in the reverse fixture and tried to outwit Guardiola by trying something completely different (e.g. the front 3 selection). There's a reason why Guardiola has lost more games against us than any other club and Tuchel went with an untested selection to beat him. 

[Jase 43,479]

Has anyone realized that we have won only 3 of our 11 games against sides currently sitting in the top half of the league? 

[Superblue 6,331]

4 hours ago, Tomo said:

If they were fluke goals I'd agree but they were practically playing like number 10s in possession and getting into the right areas.

Many thought Trent and Robertson's freak productivity wasn't sustainable and look at them now.

Not saying we don't need a couple of the forward player's to step up we very much do but I don't think that was a fluke purple patch from those two, far from it.

It's not just their attacking output being exceptional during that period, but it's the athleticism and pace that both possess to get up and down the pitch. 

Both being able to play that high up the pitch but have the speed and fitness to also get back into position to defend is what is the problem now with the system. With Chilwell and James we basically had five attackers and then one of Kova or Kante being a roaming midfielder to help hunt the ball high. Alonso and Azpilicueta simply don't have the same physical capabilities to play box to box, and I don't think either is as efficient once in attack.

Their absence has definitely showed that we need adequate replacements for them because if Tuchel wants the back 3 to be his favoured formation the wing backs arguably are the most important part of the team.

[ZAPHOD2319 3,868]

 

[Jase 43,479]

Is Tuchel starting to lose the plot?

He complains about not having 5 subs in the Premier League to make changes but yet, it's two consecutive games now that he waited ages to make changes and that's with just 3 subs.

Does Tuchel also think the Premier League is the Bundesliga or Ligue 1? He keeps rotating the players and making changes to the tactical setups, leading to us not having any sort of consistency whatsoever. Then there's the endless issue of putting square pegs in round holes. There's already been plenty of them but now, it's CHO in a front two with Lukaku and then Werner on the RW in a 4-2-3-1? It feels as though Tuchel wants to be clever and wants to out-tactic the opposition that he ends up overcomplicating things and makes things worse for us, especially this season. 

[Tomo 21,681]

If this Lukaku obsession stops we'll turn this round. If he keeps shoehorning him in then it will get worse.

Sometimes things are exactly how they say on the tin.

[MoroccanBlue 5,192]

The goal was to finish Top 3, comfortably. We are now likely going to end the season in ANOTHER top 4 battle. 

5th season in a row.

 

Unacceptable. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by MoroccanBlue

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

7 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If this Lukaku obsession stops we'll turn this round. If he keeps shoehorning him in then it will get worse.

Sometimes things are exactly how they say on the tin.

Heres hoping but again, going back to the front 3 from last season, they aren’t doing much this time around so I still think we may see some frustration and mixed results/1-0s again.

If we can find a front 3 without Rom and Timo and it works, I hope to god he keeps it.

[Jase 43,479]

20 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Heres hoping but again, going back to the front 3 from last season, they aren’t doing much this time around so I still think we may see some frustration and mixed results/1-0s again.

If we can find a front 3 without Rom and Timo and it works, I hope to god he keeps it.

Ha! You complained about practically all our attackers and now you mentioned only 2 attackers there. Besides the lack of finishing, we were generally doing fine attacking wise last season. We largely had a settled system and setup, with minimal changes, and we made it work. Fast forward to this season, throw Lukaku in - the only addition to the frontline - and suddenly, things slowly and surely have started to go haywire because Tuchel keeps on chopping and changing, trying to shoehorn someone who didn't fit into the XI. 

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

30 minutes ago, Jase said:

Ha! You complained about practically all our attackers and now you mentioned only 2 attackers there. Besides the lack of finishing, we were generally doing fine attacking wise last season. We largely had a settled system and setup, with minimal changes, and we made it work. Fast forward to this season, throw Lukaku in - the only addition to the frontline - and suddenly, things slowly and surely have started to go haywire because Tuchel keeps on chopping and changing, trying to shoehorn someone who didn't fit into the XI. 

Yep agree with the shoehorning point.

Re the attackers - I generally think we can still get something out of Mount and Kai. Just they need to step it up a lot because there is the potential and there is definitely top top players capable of playing for this team in them. Well they are definitely more capable of contributing than the others.

Timo is Timo, Ziyech is Ziyech and Pulisic is Pulisic. CHO also infuriating but given his home grown status, he can be a valuable squad player/option at RWB still. But what I don’t get is how anybody can look at Timo Werner or Ziyech and see them doing well here. Pulisic seems to be hugely out of favour too. 

Seriously though, if TT can find a front 3 without Rom and Timo, make it work and keep it. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by OneMoSalah

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yep agree with the shoehorning point.

Re the attackers - I generally think we can still get something out of Mount and Kai. Just they need to step it up a lot because there is the potential and there is definitely top top players capable of playing for this team in them. Well they are definitely more capable of contributing than the others.

Timo is Timo, Ziyech is Ziyech and Pulisic is Pulisic. CHO also infuriating but given his home grown status, he can be a valuable squad player/option at RWB still. But what I don’t get is how anybody can look at Timo Werner or Ziyech and see them doing well here. Pulisic seems to be hugely out of favour too. 

Seriously though, if TT can find a front 3 without Rom and Timo, make it work and keep it. 

For all your criticism or even hatred of Werner, he was one of the key players who helped made the system work last season. In fact, him and Mount were basically the two mainstays in Tuchel's selection last season. The remaining spot was open until Havertz grabbed that. The selection was almost consistent. Werner might not a WOW player but he was an important cog in the system. He might not have been the goalscorer that we all want but he contributed(s) a lot in different ways (would even say the same with Havertz at least). Different case altogether with Lukaku who if is not scoring, what does he bring to the team? And he hasn't even registered a single assist this season.

[coolhead23 1,146]

5 hours ago, Jase said:

For all your criticism or even hatred of Werner, he was one of the key players who helped made the system work last season. In fact, him and Mount were basically the two mainstays in Tuchel's selection last season. The remaining spot was open until Havertz grabbed that. The selection was almost consistent. Werner might not a WOW player but he was an important cog in the system. He might not have been the goalscorer that we all want but he contributed(s) a lot in different ways (would even say the same with Havertz at least). Different case altogether with Lukaku who if is not scoring, what does he bring to the team? And he hasn't even registered a single assist this season.

Bang on! Out of the 2 strikers we have with similar form Werner still bring a lot to the table while Lukaku is just a dead wood when he is not scoring. Werner uses his pace while Lukaku uses his strength to bring defenders away from their positions and seems pace is more effective. 

Also what it seems like that Werner despite all the criticism of he not hitting goals or expensive players gives his 100% on the field, Lukaku at times seems he doesnt give a f**k. Maybe it's just the optics ... 

[Blue Armour 4,158]

7 hours ago, Jase said:

Is Tuchel starting to lose the plot?

He complains about not having 5 subs in the Premier League to make changes but yet, it's two consecutive games now that he waited ages to make changes and that's with just 3 subs.

Does Tuchel also think the Premier League is the Bundesliga or Ligue 1? He keeps rotating the players and making changes to the tactical setups, leading to us not having any sort of consistency whatsoever. Then there's the endless issue of putting square pegs in round holes. There's already been plenty of them but now, it's CHO in a front two with Lukaku and then Werner on the RW in a 4-2-3-1? It feels as though Tuchel wants to be clever and wants to out-tactic the opposition that he ends up overcomplicating things and makes things worse for us, especially this season. 

Manager meltdown in the middle of the season, which has been a trend for the past 7 years.

Team loses interest because they aren't challenging for the league title. Standards drop and points along with it.

Manager is at wit's end and starts overcomplicating things. We're well and truly in a rat race for fourth, if Spurs and Arsenal win their games in hand.

The team that finished the game played so much better, and its not all down to the subs being fresh.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Blue Armour said:

Manager meltdown in the middle of the season, which has been a trend for the past 7 years.

Team loses interest because they aren't challenging for the league title. Standards drop and points along with it.

Manager is at wit's end and starts overcomplicating things. We're well and truly in a rat race for fourth, if Spurs and Arsenal win their games in hand.

The team that finished the game played so much better, and its not all down to the subs being fresh.

And Tuchel pretty much sat down in the dugout for much of the second half yesterday. 

[Strike 6,958]

If we aren't going in the market for wingbacks and if we keep playing Lukaku and compromising on pressing, form might not pick up in time to save the season.

[Strike 6,958]

2 hours ago, coolhead23 said:

Bang on! Out of the 2 strikers we have with similar form Werner still bring a lot to the table while Lukaku is just a dead wood when he is not scoring. Werner uses his pace while Lukaku uses his strength to bring defenders away from their positions and seems pace is more effective. 

Also what it seems like that Werner despite all the criticism of he not hitting goals or expensive players gives his 100% on the field, Lukaku at times seems he doesnt give a f**k. Maybe it's just the optics ... 

Havertz is better than both. He's no ice cold finisher but his movement and control keeps attacks alive and keeps team in control in attacking areas. Time to re-integrate him and play Havertz-Mount-CHO/Puli/Werner/Ziyech like the end of last season.

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, Strike said:

Havertz is better than both. He's no ice cold finisher but his movement and control keeps attacks alive and keeps team in control in attacking areas. Time to re-integrate him and play Havertz-Mount-CHO/Puli/Werner/Ziyech like the end of last season.

If you want to talk about last season, then it's basically Werner, Mount and Havertz as the trio. Minus the finishing, we looked like we were onto something with them. They bring the energy, pace, movement, workrate etc that made us work last season. Have barely seen them play together with the inclusion of Lukaku this season.