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This is what he said after the game about formation and Ziyech. This is what happens when he finally plays on best position.

I think we are switching to 4atb permanently. 

“We tried a 4-1-4-1 formation today because we tried a 4-4-2 against them in the first match and that gave us an advantage but then they reacted to it in the second match.

“[We] had the players for the formation, players in shape, players who wanted and should be on the pitch, and good positions for them. [We] thought it could give us solutions to escape the high pressing, put the game in the opponent’s half, and have a bit more width without having wing backs [to] cause them problems.

“[Now] it gives us another option so well done.”

“It was one of [Ziyech’s] best matches today because he was very reliable. It was also maybe his best position to be on the wing. We had the wide position on the right wing, that position does not normally exist in that particular manner when we play 3-4-3, it is more of a wing back.

“Maybe we can think about doing this. It was good because it gave him the opportunity to take risks where it was possible to take risks. He was very reliable on the ball in moments where it is necessary. The work rate was always outstanding. You can always rely on him on work rate and counter-pressing. So yes, well done and he needs to keep on going like everyone else.”

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1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

I would say we do have a style of play but particularly in the final third, we seem to lack ideas or output due to a mix of a lack of quality/chemistry between players/continuity for some players who maybe need regular minutes to get into their groove/whatever else. 

So you do recognize that as a potential issue?

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Its fair to say we are a possession based team or at least thats what I would say. And on the shape and patterns, like most 3atb teams (usually what we use although this 4 and 3 hyrbids have come into it recently) we look to utilise overloads we’ve created outwide/centrally (or when we had RJ & BC fit) to stretch teams as well as having shown promising counter pressing and transitional play. Maybe not recently as this last 2 and a half months we’ve had some iffy results and performances but I don’t think its impossible to see an identity when we play. Obviously we aren’t that effective in the final third but this cannot discount all the other work we do in the first and second thirds of the pitch either. Against bigger teams it changes slightly but being a bit more flexible in these games isn’t necessarily a bad thing but again the principles don’t really change either, perhaps we just drop 10 or 15 yards deeper and don’t counter press as high. Undoubtedly now though 6 months in, after myself hoping TT could find some sort of tweak or change to utilise Rom, his integration has severely affected the pressing and the general play negatively. 

We are a possession based team but yet we don't seem to scare teams much as City do.

I mean there are some clear patterns to how we play but at the same time, it's still hard to escape the fact that our attack has not clicked consistently after 1 year into Tuchel's time at the club.

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

On TT & rotation or tweaks, I think this is just the nature of the beast with him especially considering the inconsistency in our front players as its pretty much a settled team elsewhere. From his time at Mainz, he mentioned changes in players and shapes in a presentation/conference/whatever you want to call it. I don’t know if you’ve already watched the video but at 17 minutes in, he goes into detail about preparing a game, making changes for a game v Werder Bremen whilst at Mainz and Sky saying to him about making 6 changes without him actually really realising he’s made 6 changes as before he mentions about him and his staff looking at the opposition and looking for where the advantages were. 

Yes but doing it with mid-table side like Mainz in the Bundesliga is one thing. Doing it with a big club in the Premier League is another. 

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

On Pep and Klopp tactics or styles of play in comparison to us under Tuchel, I don’t think its necessarily as straight forward to say that two managers who have had 5+ seasons at each club, signed players for their starting 11s/squads to suit their philosophies which they’ve predominantly signed the bulk of those players for (especially City with Pep) have got a defined style and that after 12 months, with a squad where he has actually only authorised 2 signings (Rom and Saul) that Tuchel should necessarily have this to the same degree that Pep and Klopp have.

Okay, the other have had 5 years to build their own team but my original point still stands. They have a settled system, tactical setups and they don't change those as often as Tuchel has. IIRC, Guardiola did that a lot in his first at City and the results were not up to standards, to say the least. If Tuchel really did authorized Lukaku, especially, then you gotta worry about him getting his own signings in the future (not that the club's are perfect every time).

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

But what has impressed me is TT has shown over the last 12 months he can best these guys tactically.

Yes, Tuchel can best them tactically but over a game or two. Whether he can do that over 38 games remains to be seen.

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

I mean I still get the feeling he’s looking at the attacking players and going ‘jesus christ what in the fuck am I going to do to get more out of you’ because 1) hes generally got an improvement in players in every other position over the last 12 months and 2) I really don’t think we can rely on many of them to deliver consistently or to the elite level.

It's arguably much easier to get improvement out of defenders and midfielders. Getting the tune out of the attacking players and making them gel to make a great team is what separates the best from the rest. It's a reason why Mourinho got so much stick in the past. He was great at making teams great defensively but rubbish when it comes to forming a cohesive attacking unit. I don't think it's a straightforward thing to blame the players here when you yourself said above that the players perhaps suffer from a lack of continuity and you acknowledged the fact that Tuchel likes to tinker. 

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1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

This is what he said after the game about formation and Ziyech. This is what happens when he finally plays on best position.

I think we are switching to 4atb permanently. 

“We tried a 4-1-4-1 formation today because we tried a 4-4-2 against them in the first match and that gave us an advantage but then they reacted to it in the second match.

“[We] had the players for the formation, players in shape, players who wanted and should be on the pitch, and good positions for them. [We] thought it could give us solutions to escape the high pressing, put the game in the opponent’s half, and have a bit more width without having wing backs [to] cause them problems.

“[Now] it gives us another option so well done.”

“It was one of [Ziyech’s] best matches today because he was very reliable. It was also maybe his best position to be on the wing. We had the wide position on the right wing, that position does not normally exist in that particular manner when we play 3-4-3, it is more of a wing back.

“Maybe we can think about doing this. It was good because it gave him the opportunity to take risks where it was possible to take risks. He was very reliable on the ball in moments where it is necessary. The work rate was always outstanding. You can always rely on him on work rate and counter-pressing. So yes, well done and he needs to keep on going like everyone else.”

It's also the same Ziyech that did F all against Brighton while we played with a back 4. His better showings of late have all come against Spurs. Maybe he just hates them or maybe he has some sort of personal vendetta against them for that CL final loss with Ajax. The change to the back 4 only seemed to have helped Ziyech, at least yesterday. Our attacking plays haven't improved much and players are still being moved around like square pegs in round holes. 

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5 minutes ago, Blues Forever said:
 

 

Some players are starting to see through a few things. You can’t have one rule for some and different rules for others. Some look at players who are starting, not playing well and still keeping their place.

People are going to get more annoyed about it, especially now the Premier League isn’t in touching distance. When everything is still on and going well, you can accept it more. Players who are in and out of the side are going to think about whether they need to go somewhere else to play more.

 

THIS!

We all know who they are. Lukaku and Mount.

It must be frustrating for Werner, Havertz, Pulisic, Ziyech...

I am glad respectable journalist wrote this. Truth needs to be told.

For example Mount now has 10 games without open play goal contribution. With anyone else if they start 2 or 3 games without having that, boom they are back on bench and this is how it should be. 

This is Chelsea, if you dont deliver 2 or 3 games as an attacker what is your purpose on the pitch? Rules are not the same, this is one big truth.

Lukaku also. 5 starts (not counting 5th division team) without doing anything. WTF?

Havertz scored in last start for example. And I think not playing him as a number 10 at all in 18 months here is mental decision.

Losing him and maybe some others will go into Salah, KDB territory.

But hey, maybe these guys should appoint interview and bitch about club and manager or show burning eyes when not selected...

 

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1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

THIS!

We all know who they are. Lukaku and Mount.

It must be frustrating for Werner, Havertz, Pulisic, Ziyech...

I am glad respectable journalist wrote this. Truth needs to be told.

For example Mount now has 10 games without open play goal contribution. With anyone else if they start 2 or 3 games without having that, boom they are back on bench and this is how it should be. 

This is Chelsea, if you dont deliver 2 or 3 games as an attacker what is your purpose on the pitch? Rules are not the same, this is one big truth.

Lukaku also. 5 starts (not counting 5th division team) without doing anything. WTF?

Havertz scored in last start for example. And I think not playing him as a number 10 at all in 18 months here is mental decision.

Losing him and maybe some others will go into Salah, KDB territory.

But hey, maybe these guys should appoint interview and bitch about club and manager or show burning eyes when not selected...

 

Its swings and round abouts though, lets be honest. You’d think all the attackers haven’t had plenty of opportunities the last year under Tuchel barring maybe Pulisic reading your post and even then that’s debatable isn’t it? The links to players such as Raphinha, Dembele and even Hazard aren’t happening purely by chance for me. Obviously there are subplots, be it personal links to personnel and the club or contract situations or not playing regularly elsewhere but if the current attackers had all done better these links 90% wouldn’t exist, simple as that. You don’t fix what isn’t broken urgently. You fix what is broken immediately. 

The Mount lack of goals/assists point as valid as it may be is the same as Timo or even Kai. If Timo doesn’t get goals or assists people come with “when he plays his runs stretch teams or his movement is useful” or if Kai doesn’t score or assist “he links up the play better and our combination play is better” which, granted, are valid points but again, if its the same precedent for one it has to be the same precedent for all of them. If your going to criticise Mount, Lukaku, Timo or whoever for no goals or assists then the other attackers have to get it too because they aren’t doing it. Simple as that. 

Granted Mase hasn’t been great the last wee while but again are we as a team doing well from open play? Are we really creating a huge amount of chances? How many goals have come from corners and freekicks? How many have been scored by central defenders or the wingbacks? Obviously set plays and a good spread of goals from other positions are huge bonuses but ultimately you take these goals away and we would be a lot lot worse off. So are some of the attackers really not getting a chance or does Tuchel just not count on or fancy some of them like he does with some of the others over the last 12 months? 

Also would say its laughable to say losing the likes of Ziyech, Pulisic or Werner could potentially end up like a Salah or KDB situation. There are levels and they aren't that level. Havertz is potentially the only one who is likely to become an actual elite level player of the ilk that Mo and Kevin are. And even then that level is hard to get to for a lot of players.

Edited by OneMoSalah
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Ideas: Dump the Jorginho MF setup, play forward faster w/o fear of losing the ball.... etc. etc. Our centre midfield has options other than Jorginho, but not much strength except in Barkley and RLC. 

Ideas: Tuchel plays an imitation of the Barca way with inferior squads and no Messi. Why does he keep doing this and why does he not try something else 100% instead of half-ass attempts to deviate from the possession-based gameplay? Every variation/deviation/change is only ever partial and never ventures to interplay/attacking that abandons obsession with possession.

There are too many variables at-play in CFC's predicament. The manager and the squad are not where they need to be. So, if we lay the blame at the feet of playing around Jorginho's MF, who just won the Euro Cup last summer and NOT having a good alternative setup.... I am not so sure this is all a good excuse. An excuse for WHAT? How about the fact that our squad has shown ZERO development this season under Tuchel? 

Where does this leave us? Muddling through more months of this?  Personally, I value Conor Gallagher, Armando Broja, Hakim Ziyech and the potential of some of the other players in our squad more than I value the current manager staying  at our club. Are we going to change our centre midfield under Tuchel by selling Jorginho and acquiring CMs that can physically dominate matches? Does this solve the attacking problems?

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20 minutes ago, milka said:

 

To put it bluntly, although mathematically it wasn’t (and still isn’t) quite over, since City went 6 points clear of us in December, it was as good as over in all likelihood. Or so I felt. I mean City now are what 13 clear again, if they win the game they’ve got on us? They aren’t dropping that many points in that position. No way.

If you look at our draws v United, Burnley and Everton especially around that period when City went 6 clear and then the other draws since, it is going to be nearly impossible to win the title, even if we win 90% of those games. We need to just focus on our own games too and take care of them as they come ws opposed to thinking City play team X or Y lets hope they do us a favour. I mean if City drop a lot of points, they drop a lot of points but thats a massive if and it isn’t as if we are exactly flying just now either so wouldn’t get overly excited.

Also never mind City, Liverpool have 2 games in hand on us and can go up to 54 points if they take all 6 points from them. We need to really not lose sight of them as opposed to City right now because we can maybe catch them if we get our shit together. 

Obviously most of our remaining fixtures are favourable which maybe does give people optimism and a chance to get a lot of points but in our current 8 league draws we have 2 v Brighton, 1 v Everton, 1 v Wolves and 1 v Burnley. Thats 5 points taken from 15 which we all would of been expected to get. 100%. So nothing is a given. 

Again, smaller teams have caused us more of an issue than bigger teams this season. 

Edited by OneMoSalah
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Simon Phillips reporting the attackers at the club have shown a distrust and are unsettled by Tuchel given how he treats them. They second guess their decisions and don't trust their instincts. Suggestions he is "too brutal" with them and at times selects lineup 'based on emotion'. 

 

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6 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Again, smaller teams have caused us more of an issue than bigger teams this season. 

What? 

Against top10 teams on table we have 4 wins in 13 games. Arsenal, Spurs x2 and Leicester. 

Against teams from 11th to 20th place we have 9 wins and 2 draws in 11 games. 

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