The Tuchel Thread

[MoroccanBlue 5,192]

5 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

Here we go again...and its hard cause like you say the table is all over the place. Can't look at our postion and say we're okay cause we've played more games then others. If we get drawn into another stupid top 4 battle after being top..urghhh

I think getting drawn into another Top 4 battle, or worse even missing out, begs for some uncomfortable questions and a Tuchel assessment is well and truly warranted.

I said last June after our CL win that the jury is still out on Tuchel for me. Cup manager vibes. 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by MoroccanBlue

[Tomo 21,681]

44 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

In 24 hours we could potentially be only 3 points ahead of West Ham. If Arsenal will their two games in hand, we will be only 2 points ahead of them. Matter of fact, if Spurs somehow win their 4 games in hand, they will be ahead of us by 2 points. 

Lot of hypotheticals but if we end the season with another battle for Top 4, where do we assess Tuchel in all of this considering there has been zero improvement and another chunk of money invested?

Unless he keeps playing Lukaku unconditionally then no.

I saw more than enough pre the injury's to know a largely fully fit side under him can challenge.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

17 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I think getting drawn into another Top 4 battle, or worse even missing out, begs for some uncomfortable questions and a Tuchel assessment is well and truly warranted.

I said last June after our CL win that the jury is still out on Tuchel for me. Cup manager vibes. 

 

I could understand the issue if we got beaten by some relegation fodder team but it was Man City today and it doesn’t really change anything we didn’t already know as in they will win the league and are miles ahead of us and Liverpool. Why is it always just before or just always after big games depending on predicted result/the actual result people seem to kick up a fuss and question Tuchel? Not saying its solely down to you as everyone is entitled to their own opinion but there is a pattern, it happens almost every big game before or after.

A Tuchel assessment would be a bit extreme considering we are defending European champions, won the Super Cup, just got to another cup final on Wednesday and still have the Club World Cup and FA Cup games too. I mean what more do people want? We could finish the season 2nd or 3rd with potentially 3 trophies at least. Also we are comfortably much better than everyone else bar Liverpool and City so I wouldn’t expect it to come to being dragged into a top 4 race. 

Also this ‘cup manager’ notion is a bit silly when you look at it because we have more or less been more of a cup team now for the best part of 10 or 11 years. League Cups, FA Cups, CLs, ELs - all cup competitions. Not in a derogatory way obviously as trophies are trophies but we have won 2 PL titles in the last 10 years after the 3 in 6 years prior to 2010 under Jose and Carlo. 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by OneMoSalah

[MoroccanBlue 5,192]

Maybe I'm over reacting. Going to calm down a bit. 

[Blue Armour 4,158]

17 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I could understand the issue if we got beaten by some relegation fodder team but it was Man City today and it doesn’t really change anything we didn’t already know as in they will win the league and are miles ahead of us and Liverpool. Why is it always just before or just always after big games depending on predicted result/the actual result people seem to kick up a fuss and question Tuchel? Not saying its solely down to you as everyone is entitled to their own opinion but there is a pattern, it happens almost every big game before or after.

A Tuchel assessment would be a bit extreme considering we are defending European champions, won the Super Cup, just got to another cup final on Wednesday and still have the Club World Cup and FA Cup games too. I mean what more do people want? We could finish the season 2nd or 3rd with potentially 3 trophies at least. Also we are comfortably much better than everyone else bar Liverpool and City so I wouldn’t expect it to come to being dragged into a top 4 race. 

Also this ‘cup manager’ notion is a bit silly when you look at it because we have more or less been more of a cup team now for the best part of 10 or 11 years. League Cups, FA Cups, CLs, ELs - all cup competitions. Not in a derogatory way obviously as trophies are trophies but we have won 2 PL titles in the last 10 years after the 3 in 6 years prior to 2010 under Jose and Carlo. 

 

True. The fact that we're failing in the league is because of the shortcomings of the squad.

And even if it's an excuse., losing a key player for 6 months is usually enough to create an under par season for any club.

The last time we lost a couple of key players (Essien, Bosingwa lol) for an extended period and still came out on top was in 2010 when we had quality replacements ( a budding Ivanovic, plus Ballack and Mikel).  And thankfully the rest of the squad (with lot of WC options) stayed fit throughout.

And even that squad did not have to face completion from a ruthlessly consistent side like Pep's City. 

That month in December with Covid., hamstring injuries fucked us over. And City had barely any trouble during that time.

Very difficult to recover in these situations. The fact that we're 13 points behind is because of that., and not because of today's game.

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Blue Armour

[laura90 556]

Tuchel comments about Lukaku weren't addressed to Lukaku, but to the board. Or both. It was something like : with what kind of footballer play as as my focal point?  Losses balls with or without pressure, can't pass, waists chances upfront. Plays bad, what team can do then?

Message to those that signed him.

Prepare some popcorns. Lukaku interview part two incoming. He will gain some more weight in the next month. 

He will play because he costed that much and because he is our top earner. If we want to sell him in the summer, he will play to increase his value, if he has any. Or to convince somebody to take him.

He won't play because Tuchel wants him to. Even games against bottom table teams will be our little finals because our top four place is in jeopardy.

Our entire attack is even worse with Lukaku '' I wave all the time and miss/ missplace every ball''  upfront. All our attackers got worse due to his presence upfront. Today, every cross, every ball is aimed at Lukaku and waisted because he is right behind defenders at the time. If we as a club continue to insist on playing him, we are out of CL place very soon.

 

[Tomo 21,681]

22 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

True. The fact that we're failing in the league is because of the shortcomings of the squad.

And even if it's an excuse., losing a key player for 6 months is usually enough to create an under par season for any club.

The last time we lost a couple of key players (Essien, Bosingwa lol) for an extended period and still came out on top was in 2010 when we had quality replacements ( a budding Ivanovic, plus Ballack and Mikel).  And thankfully the rest of the squad (with lot of WC options) stayed fit throughout.

And even that squad did not have to face completion from a ruthlessly consistent side like Pep's City. 

That month in December with Covid., hamstring injuries fucked us over. And City had barely any trouble during that time.

Very difficult to recover in these situations. The fact that we're 13 points behind is because of that., and not because of today's game.

 

Funny you mention Bosingwa because he also single handedly turned our big game record shit like Rom has.

[NikkiCFC 7,563]

No goal today, Spurs just corner, Brighton also, Spurs first leg basically 2 own goals, Brenford pen and own goal, AV and Leeds 4 pens, Wolves nothing... Liverpool game ok 2 great goals but first one Kova shot from distance after corner and Puli goal after pressing... There is zero creativity in this side. And this goes way back. TT did nothing to our attack in a year. I could easily pick games from last season like this and we created nothing in majority of them.

This is major problem and he is definitely responsible. 

[Johnnyeye 7,405]

i don’t want to blame Tuchel, he can only do so much, its those numpties playing that should do much better, we also have been fucked over by injuries and covid. the fact that the FA refuses to postpone our game against Wolves and don’t hesitate to do so for Pool, Arse, etc… it pisses me off to no end.

[MoroccanBlue 5,192]

1 minute ago, NikkiCFC said:

No goal today, Spurs just corner, Brighton also, Spurs first leg basically 2 own goals, Brenford pen and own goal, AV and Leeds 4 pens, Wolves nothing... Liverpool game ok 2 great goals but first one Kova shot from distance after corner and Puli goal after pressing... There is zero creativity in this side. And this goes way back. TT did nothing to our attack in a year. I could easily pick games from last season like this and we created nothing in majority of them.

This is major problem and he is definitely responsible. 

Which goes back to something you and I both agree on in that the system is prmarily responsible. For it too be successful, it needs to have conservative CMs. Creativity goes out the window. 

We need to switch to a back 4 next season and having Gallagher + Tchoumeni will help loads. 

[Magic Lamps 11,446]

5 hours ago, Tomo said:

Funny you mention Bosingwa because he also single handedly turned our big game record shit like Rom has.

Harsh on Bosingwa. He was terribly unreliable at times but usually rose to the occasion. Pocketed Messi in 2009 and Ribery in 2012. 2 times Champions league winner

but his best moment will always be when he front kicked benayoun in the back right in front of the linesman and got a free kick for it 

[Blue Armour 4,158]

7 hours ago, Tomo said:

Funny you mention Bosingwa because he also single handedly turned our big game record shit like Rom has.

Haha, that's why I was considering adding an asterisk next to the "lol" in my post. To be fair, he was the first choice RB at the time. The irony was that his injury ended up being a positive because it brought Ivanovic into the mix. 

[Tomo 21,681]

13 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Harsh on Bosingwa. He was terribly unreliable at times but usually rose to the occasion. Pocketed Messi in 2009 and Ribery in 2012. 2 times Champions league winner

but his best moment will always be when he front kicked benayoun in the back right in front of the linesman and got a free kick for it 

I can't use the UCL final to big up at player's ability level not named Cech, can't fault the effort (especially from the semi injured CBs) but let's be honest if it weren't for Petr that final ends up god knows what.

Barca for sure in that second half he plays a blinder (he was the hero of that Torres moment with his interception) which makes me wonder why he was not tried as a CB more often, he genuinely looked better there.

In general though our big game record went to shit with him playing them. I actually did an article on it shortly after I joined this site, the contrast in both loses and goals conceded with and without him was far too big to be a coincidence.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Tomo

[Clockwork 1,762]

19 hours ago, Tomo said:

 

I saw more than enough pre the injury's to know a largely fully fit side under him can challenge.

Disagree, the way Chillwill and Reece were scoring was not sustainable. Their goals were a big reason for our good start.

I disliked the Lukaku signing as much as anyone, and no doubt we are better without him but forward plays continue to be a big challenge with or without him.

 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

Problems with a big signing, a slump in form and results, and cut adrift of the Premier League leaders. Sound familiar, Chelsea fans? That’s because it is.

Thomas Tuchel has blamed bad luck and bad scheduling in terms of Covid cases, injuries and the fixture list. But there have also been bad decisions from the head coach, who must be careful not to allow the start of his second year at the club to spin into what has been an all too familiar cycle of discontent.

When Chelsea were soundly beaten by Leicester City almost a year ago to the day, in what proved to be Frank Lampard’s final game in charge, the west London side had dropped 19 points over the course of 12 games. Fast forward 12 months and Saturday’s defeat to Manchester City meant Tuchel’s Chelsea have now dropped 18 points over their past 12 games in the Premier League.

The table looks far more encouraging for Chelsea, of course, but they have now fallen 13 points behind leaders City as the German’s first anniversary at the club approaches.

When Lampard was sacked, Chelsea were nine points behind City and 11 behind Manchester United, who were top of the table at the time. But, crucially in terms of the former midfielder’s sacking, his team sat in ninth place.

Any Chelsea manager will find himself in trouble if his side are mid-table, no matter how temporarily, but there were other factors at play in Lampard’s sacking. The two big signings of the previous summer, Kai Havertz and Timo Werner, were struggling while there had been fall-outs with big characters such as Antonio Rudiger and Marcos Alonso.

A year later, Chelsea seem to be stuck in a familiar pattern. This time, Romelu Lukaku is the big-money signing who cannot seem to show his best form in a blue shirt and it is the Belgian with whom the latest head coach does not appear to see eye-to-eye.

Lukaku was dropped for his controversial Sky Italia interview and then reinstated by Tuchel, who had insisted that the situation had been dealt with calmly, despite sources claiming there had been at least one heated conversation between the pair.

Having watched Lukaku miss one good chance and pass instead of shoot against City, Tuchel risked upsetting Chelsea’s club record signing once again.

“He had many ball losses without pressure and in very promising circumstances,” said Tuchel. “Of course, we want to serve him but he is part of the team and sometimes he needs to do service as well. He had a huge chance so he’s included in this.

“He is part of the team and the performances up front, especially in the first half, we can do much better and we need to do better.”

The best way to serve Lukaku might have been to have Chelsea’s most creative asset playing alongside him against City and yet Mason Mount, who Tuchel berated during the Carabao Cup semi-final second-leg success over Tottenham Hotspur, was benched.

His critics will tell you that Mount has not been as consistently good this season and yet he ranks joint first in assists with Reece James, who is injured, and is the club’s third top-scorer.

Mount has often been asked to play out of his most natural position, which is off the left, and has so far suffered from the injury of Ben Chilwell more than any other player as the pair had struck up a superb understanding for club and country.

The front three Tuchel fielded against City, Lukaku, Christian Pulisic and Hakim Ziyech had never started a game together before, while the front three that combined so effectively in last season’s Champions League final victory over Guardiola’s team, Mount, Havertz and Werner, all started on the substitutes’ bench at the weekend.

Given how Lampard revealed Mount used to react to being left out of the team, it would be fair to assume that the England international would have been furious to have lost his place for such a big game - particularly as those who replaced him had done little to deserve to.

It is interesting to note that Tuchel had informed Chelsea that Lampard’s team had suffered from bad luck when he was first approached to succeed the club legend and initially queried if they were sure about wanting to make a change.

Tuchel, too, has been the victim of misfortune, particularly with the injuries to Chilwell, Reece James and Trevoh Chalobah, and the season remains very much alive with a Carabao Cup final, the FA Cup, the Club World Cup and a Champions League last-16 date to look forward to.

With their top-four status currently not in danger, as it was this time last year, Chelsea will not be worrying too much yet and, as we saw in Tuchel’s first year, the campaign could still end on a huge high. Equally, if the familiar cycle takes hold, he could face a stormy start to his second year in the hot seat.

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, Blues Forever said:

Problems with a big signing, a slump in form and results, and cut adrift of the Premier League leaders. Sound familiar, Chelsea fans? That’s because it is.

Thomas Tuchel has blamed bad luck and bad scheduling in terms of Covid cases, injuries and the fixture list. But there have also been bad decisions from the head coach, who must be careful not to allow the start of his second year at the club to spin into what has been an all too familiar cycle of discontent.

When Chelsea were soundly beaten by Leicester City almost a year ago to the day, in what proved to be Frank Lampard’s final game in charge, the west London side had dropped 19 points over the course of 12 games. Fast forward 12 months and Saturday’s defeat to Manchester City meant Tuchel’s Chelsea have now dropped 18 points over their past 12 games in the Premier League.

The table looks far more encouraging for Chelsea, of course, but they have now fallen 13 points behind leaders City as the German’s first anniversary at the club approaches.

When Lampard was sacked, Chelsea were nine points behind City and 11 behind Manchester United, who were top of the table at the time. But, crucially in terms of the former midfielder’s sacking, his team sat in ninth place.

Any Chelsea manager will find himself in trouble if his side are mid-table, no matter how temporarily, but there were other factors at play in Lampard’s sacking. The two big signings of the previous summer, Kai Havertz and Timo Werner, were struggling while there had been fall-outs with big characters such as Antonio Rudiger and Marcos Alonso.

A year later, Chelsea seem to be stuck in a familiar pattern. This time, Romelu Lukaku is the big-money signing who cannot seem to show his best form in a blue shirt and it is the Belgian with whom the latest head coach does not appear to see eye-to-eye.

Lukaku was dropped for his controversial Sky Italia interview and then reinstated by Tuchel, who had insisted that the situation had been dealt with calmly, despite sources claiming there had been at least one heated conversation between the pair.

Having watched Lukaku miss one good chance and pass instead of shoot against City, Tuchel risked upsetting Chelsea’s club record signing once again.

“He had many ball losses without pressure and in very promising circumstances,” said Tuchel. “Of course, we want to serve him but he is part of the team and sometimes he needs to do service as well. He had a huge chance so he’s included in this.

“He is part of the team and the performances up front, especially in the first half, we can do much better and we need to do better.”

The best way to serve Lukaku might have been to have Chelsea’s most creative asset playing alongside him against City and yet Mason Mount, who Tuchel berated during the Carabao Cup semi-final second-leg success over Tottenham Hotspur, was benched.

His critics will tell you that Mount has not been as consistently good this season and yet he ranks joint first in assists with Reece James, who is injured, and is the club’s third top-scorer.

Mount has often been asked to play out of his most natural position, which is off the left, and has so far suffered from the injury of Ben Chilwell more than any other player as the pair had struck up a superb understanding for club and country.

The front three Tuchel fielded against City, Lukaku, Christian Pulisic and Hakim Ziyech had never started a game together before, while the front three that combined so effectively in last season’s Champions League final victory over Guardiola’s team, Mount, Havertz and Werner, all started on the substitutes’ bench at the weekend.

Given how Lampard revealed Mount used to react to being left out of the team, it would be fair to assume that the England international would have been furious to have lost his place for such a big game - particularly as those who replaced him had done little to deserve to.

It is interesting to note that Tuchel had informed Chelsea that Lampard’s team had suffered from bad luck when he was first approached to succeed the club legend and initially queried if they were sure about wanting to make a change.

Tuchel, too, has been the victim of misfortune, particularly with the injuries to Chilwell, Reece James and Trevoh Chalobah, and the season remains very much alive with a Carabao Cup final, the FA Cup, the Club World Cup and a Champions League last-16 date to look forward to.

With their top-four status currently not in danger, as it was this time last year, Chelsea will not be worrying too much yet and, as we saw in Tuchel’s first year, the campaign could still end on a huge high. Equally, if the familiar cycle takes hold, he could face a stormy start to his second year in the hot seat.

[NikkiCFC 7,563]

What is the point of that article? If Mount started everything would be perfect? 

[MoroccanBlue 5,192]

7 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

What is the point of that article? If Mount started everything would be perfect? 

Implies Tuchel has no idea what the fuck he's doing. 

Played a front three yesterday that we never saw before and the front three that won the Champions League so convincingly against City were on the bench. 

I mean, can you say "self sabotage"?