The Mourinho Thread

[Joker10 946]

  On 21/09/2014 at 18:43, Barbara said:

did you miss the part where I said he's that TOO, but he isn't just that as you labeled him?

You can bring a lot of examples where he reacted and I can bring you a lot of examples where he took the risks and jumped at the gun. What's the point? Are we going to keep changing that? My point is that you can't label him as only that when he showed character to take matters into his team's hands many times - many of them against stronger teams - when he had to.

He's a manager that will make everything he needs to win. React, be pro-active, play mind games and come up with unexpected tactics, still you reduced him to simply a 'reactive' manager.

I'm not the one who's been deceived here.

I know about labels, i know calling Mou just a reactive manager is inaccurate. But on the scale of reactive and proactive, he fells awfully close to reactive.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

  On 21/09/2014 at 18:54, Myself said:

MrBlueGuy, out of interest, where do you rank Mourinho within the all time greats?

For us? the best manager in our history. In Europe? Certainly top 5, but that is only because I started watching football for around 10-15 years ago. So all the Liverpool, Real Madrid, Barcelona, MU greats...etc I never seen to judge. I don't just want to go on Wiki and see the stats for who won the most trophies and judge.

At the moment? Top 10 in Europe certainly and will be the best if we win the CL this season. For me he is among the likes of Ancelotti, Sir Alex, Klopp, Simeone...etc as modern day great managers. Not Wenger and LVG anymore but 10-15 years ago Arsenal were a top team and in those days Wenger and LVG were up there with the very best.

[Myself 793]

  On 21/09/2014 at 18:59, MrBlueGuy said:

For us? the best manager in our history. In Europe? Certainly top 5, but that is only because I started watching football for around 10-15 years ago. So all the Liverpool, Real Madrid, Barcelona, MU greats...etc I never seen to judge. I don't just want to go on Wiki and see the stats for who won the most trophies and judge.

At the moment? Top 10 in Europe certainly and will be the best if we win the CL this season. For me he is among the likes of Ancelotti, Sir Alex, Klopp, Simeone...etc as modern day great managers. Not Wenger and LVG anymore but 10-15 years ago Arsenal were a top team and in those days Wenger and LVG were up there with the very best.

Ah, okay, just thought that maybe you didn't rate him as a manager.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

  On 21/09/2014 at 19:06, Myself said:

Ah, okay, just thought that maybe you didn't rate him as a manager.

Nope I really like him as our manager and want him to stay as long as possible if we continue to win trophies every season. However I just don't like his tactic used today, a year ago it would have been acceptable because we could say we had Torres who would miss a 1 on 1 easily and try to get a point. Today however we were up AGAINST 10 men and a goal up but he still wanted us to play that same tactic. I really don't understand why.

[Styles 9,790]

  On 21/09/2014 at 18:38, MrExcalibur100 said:

With players like Costa, Hazard, Willian, Oscar, Fabregas and so on, I can understand and relate to the frustration of our style of play in this match. If football was solely about results then no one will have any qualms about the way we played today. But unfortunately, for one of the biggest clubs in the world, with fans all around the world, it isn't. No one is questioning Mourinho's record as a manager. His managerial record shows he is one of the best managers not only of this era but in history.

But he's not perfect. And part of his defects were shown today. We were clearly set up to play counter-attacking football (as is almost always the way with Jose away from home) and the problem with that is that when it doesn't work, we produce one of the most turgid brands of football among the big European clubs.

Mourinho's tactics were ineffectual today, at least part of it. He said it himself in the post match interview. The "final phase" of attack never happened. But it never happened vs Man United away, vs Atletico away, vs Man City FA cup loss away, vs Arsenal in the league away. He's going to have to brainstorm and come up with some new ideas in these big matches away from home. We have to start playing like a big team now, not just at home but away to other big teams. No excuses.

Can't wait for the next game so I can forget how we played in this one.

My biggest moan is that if we're going to play a counter-attacking style then at least go out and press the opposition and force them into mistakes. We let Man City amble into the final third and were still doing it even after they were down to 10 men. And in order to counter from that position the players would need to run the ENTIRE length of the field.

Why do we defend so fucking deep? Most of the top teams are proactive when they don't have possession; their players press and push up to squeeze the opposition; we drop back into a wall and let the opponents pass the ball around our defensive third and wait for them to make a mistake or force a bad pass/shot.

But now we know how we're going to play in the big games and it ain't gonna be pretty. Oh well.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I swear, if someone starts a "Jose Out" thread.....screw democracy, your ass is getting banned!

[Myself 793]

  On 21/09/2014 at 19:10, MrBlueGuy said:

Nope I really like him as our manager and want him to stay as long as possible if we continue to win trophies every season. However I just don't like his tactic used today, a year ago it would have been acceptable because we could say we had Torres who would miss a 1 on 1 easily and try to get a point. Today however we were up AGAINST 10 men and a goal up but he still wanted us to play that same tactic. I really don't understand why.

Afree with you 100%. Exactly my thoughts

  On 21/09/2014 at 19:26, CHOULO19 said:

I swear, if someone starts a "Jose Out" thread.....screw democracy, your ass is getting banned!

I'll get right to it Chou

[didierforever 7,349]

Are people idiotson here. I mean seriously what the fuck is wrong?

We have played at etihad and goodison and are 5 points clear off the only title rival.

Still people are cribbing. We were getting hanmered put there with a man advantage. Jose chose right to simply play out last minutes. Every time city had the ball it seemed they would score. They had the momentum and the crowd. The lamps goal gave them extra impetus.

The DD inclusion was a little weird. I would have chosen remy (if he was on the bench) but costa needed to get off. A red card would have been devastating and he was walking a thin line

[lionsden 4,689]

  On 21/09/2014 at 19:16, Styles said:

My biggest moan is that if we're going to play a counter-attacking style then at least go out and press the opposition and force them into mistakes. We let Man City amble into the final third and were still doing it even after they were down to 10 men. And in order to counter from that position the players would need to run the ENTIRE length of the field.

Why do we defend so fucking deep? Most of the top teams are proactive when they don't have possession; their players press and push up to squeeze the opposition; we drop back into a wall and let the opponents pass the ball around our defensive third and wait for them to make a mistake or force a bad pass/shot.

But now we know how we're going to play in the big games and it ain't gonna be pretty. Oh well.

And this is a totally legitimate concern. We have spent big on top attacking talent and the board and jose have been pushing the idea that we are trying to implement an attacking philosophy. It's a big waste of our players attacking talent to turn into a rugby team in virtually every big game.

We didn't capitalise on the numerical advantage at all. Any other big team worth their salt would have had City pinned back in their own half and controlled the game after zabaletta was sent off, rather anyone who started watching the match after the fact wouldn't have guessed that we had a one man advantage over them. They actually looked the more likely team to win the match after the equalizer too as our players became really nervous and on the ropes.

[bababoom 4,478]

At home against the 'big' sides i have no doubt we'll be more attacking, away a bit more cautious but i expect our counter attacks to improve.

[Fernando 6,534]

  On 21/09/2014 at 19:16, Styles said:

My biggest moan is that if we're going to play a counter-attacking style then at least go out and press the opposition and force them into mistakes. We let Man City amble into the final third and were still doing it even after they were down to 10 men. And in order to counter from that position the players would need to run the ENTIRE length of the field.

Why do we defend so fucking deep? Most of the top teams are proactive when they don't have possession; their players press and push up to squeeze the opposition; we drop back into a wall and let the opponents pass the ball around our defensive third and wait for them to make a mistake or force a bad pass/shot.

But now we know how we're going to play in the big games and it ain't gonna be pretty. Oh well.

I think playing like we did today is alright for me, especially in pl because we get at least a point and that's very valuable.

However in cl format such things are the reason why he tends to get stuck in semis too much. He becomes too cautios and one goal from the opposing team can turn the tide very fast because of away goal rules.

[Styles 9,790]

  On 21/09/2014 at 19:38, lionsden said:

And this is a totally legitimate concern. We have spent big on top attacking talent and the board and jose have been pushing the idea that we are trying to implement an attacking philosophy. It's a big waste of our players attacking talent to turn into a rugby team in virtually every big game.

We didn't capitalise on the numerical advantage at all. Any other big team worth their salt would have had City pinned back in their own half and controlled the game after zabaletta was sent off, rather anyone who started watching the match after the fact wouldn't have guessed that we had a one man advantage over them. They actually looked the more likely team to win the match after the equalizer too as our players became really nervous and on the ropes.

That was pretty embarrassing to be honest.

At least we never lost.

[nono 791]

I am still disappointed but things could have been worse. For all our good start if City had won they'd only be two points behind us. It was just a very tactical performance from Mourinho who played for a draw.

[Styles 9,790]

  On 21/09/2014 at 19:48, Fernando said:

I think playing like we did today is alright for me, especially in pl because we get at least a point and that's very valuable.

However in cl format such things are the reason why he tends to get stuck in semis too much. He becomes too cautios and one goal from the opposing team can turn the tide very fast because of away goal rules.

Yep, it's why he struggled so much against Benitez who was one of the few managers to play him at his own game; the games were reduced to nothing with both teams afraid to commit more than 2 players to attack. I still have nightmares about our peformance away to Atletico last season.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

  On 21/09/2014 at 19:37, didierforever said:

Are people idiotson here. I mean seriously what the fuck is wrong?

We have played at etihad and goodison and are 5 points clear off the only title rival.

Still people are cribbing. We were getting hanmered put there with a man advantage. Jose chose right to simply play out last minutes. Every time city had the ball it seemed they would score. They had the momentum and the crowd. The lamps goal gave them extra impetus.

The DD inclusion was a little weird. I would have chosen remy (if he was on the bench) but costa needed to get off. A red card would have been devastating and he was walking a thin line

I think everyone here would take that one point away vs city, but sometimes, things roll different and today we had perfect chance to win comfortably. Red card, we were in the lead etc. It was up to Mou what to do and he made two mistakes. Keep defending despite having more men and putting Drogba. But it happens. It was a gamble like many times before in big games for us last year. We lead and hope to not concede. If we win, its a great tactical display, if we dont (like today), we can only blame Mou for not trying to end the game. IMO Mourinho tactics in big games are kinda lottery. They attack and if things go somehow for us, we score that one goal from only attack. Then we defend and if we concede, we fall apart. Dont think we could do much after conceding, I mean, it would be foolish to go all attack for that one more goal, but after Schurrle scored, we should be all over them. If we conceded we at least had more time. But Mou though they wont score if we defend and he was wrong. Sometimes things go in your favour, sometimes against, but rarely I have feeling that we actualy control things in big games. Its more like lets try and see if things will work for us.

When you have to step on the ball, you step on the ball. It seems our boys dont have that composure and tempo yet. But all in all, one point is great, considering they were all over us until that red card, however we should kill the game off but WE allowed city to get back in the game in the end and that aint right spirit.

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 21/09/2014 at 19:57, BlueLyon said:

I think everyone here would take that one point away vs city, but sometimes, things roll different and today we had perfect chance to win comfortably. Red card, we were in the lead etc. It was up to Mou what to do and he made two mistakes. Keep defending despite having more men and putting Drogba. But it happens. It was a gamble like many times before in big games for us last year. We lead and hope to not concede. If we win, its a great tactical display, if we dont (like today), we can only blame Mou for not trying to end the game. IMO Mourinho tactics in big games are kinda lottery. They attack and if things go somehow for us, we score that one goal from only attack. Then we defend and if we concede, we fall apart. Dont think we could do much after conceding, I mean, it would be foolish to go all attack for that one more goal, but after Schurrle scored, we should be all over them. If we conceded we at least had more time. But Mou though they wont score if we defend and he was wrong. Sometimes things go in your favour, sometimes against, but rarely I have feeling that we actualy control things in big games. Its more like lets try and see if things will work for us.

When you have to step on the ball, you step on the ball. It seems our boys dont have that composure and tempo yet. But all in all, one point is great, considering they were all over us until that red card, however we should kill the game off but WE allowed city to get back in the game in the end and that aint right spirit.

red card, we were in the lead and we were getting outplayed. cesc and hazard getting caught on the ball and leaving us prone to counters.

we dint choose to defend, we were FORCED to defend. their is a massive difference here. it was not jose's tactics to make us defend so deep with 11 to 10. city simply were that good in the last 10 minutes. and there is no shame in admitting that. and that is where i feel you are wrong. we were trying to dominate, but it simply was not happening.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

  On 21/09/2014 at 20:22, didierforever said:

red card, we were in the lead and we were getting outplayed. cesc and hazard getting caught on the ball and leaving us prone to counters.

we dint choose to defend, we were FORCED to defend. their is a massive difference here. it was not jose's tactics to make us defend so deep with 11 to 10. city simply were that good in the last 10 minutes. and there is no shame in admitting that. and that is where i feel you are wrong. we were trying to dominate, but it simply was not happening.

Then its bit of problem in mentality. Stoke did it, I would expect us to do same if we are apparently best team in league. I dont think City was bad, far from that. After they scored (Lamps), we were forced to defend yes, but when we scored, we kept attacking for few more minutes (then Costa hit post) and after that, we pulled back. We dont have Ramires and Mikel in pivot anymore, we have Matic and Cesc and if they cant keep the ball for few minutes to slow tempo down and put city on sleep mode, I dunno.

And you say we didnt choose to defend? Comeon, from start, Mou wanted a draw. it was clear as day. The red card changed things a bit, we took mantle, we scored, but then pulled back again, trying to keep the lead, like in many away games in past. We make 17 shots average this year and yet, couldnt put one in whole first half. And if city is all that better with player less that forces us into defending, then sorry but we will have lot of trouble then.

Anyway what Im trying to say, it was our fault (Mourinhos and team's) that we didnt win, not city being all that better.

[Styles 9,790]

  On 21/09/2014 at 20:22, didierforever said:

red card, we were in the lead and we were getting outplayed. cesc and hazard getting caught on the ball and leaving us prone to counters.

we dint choose to defend, we were FORCED to defend. their is a massive difference here. it was not jose's tactics to make us defend so deep with 11 to 10. city simply were that good in the last 10 minutes. and there is no shame in admitting that. and that is where i feel you are wrong. we were trying to dominate, but it simply was not happening.

Disagree. How can a team with 10 men force their will on you? We accepted their dominance like we did for most of the game and let them dominate the ball in our half. They were more likely to win the game in the end than we were, let that sink in for a moment.