The Mourinho Thread

[lionsden 4,689]

I was watching ESPN Brasil days ago when they were discussing what happened with the once amazing Luxemburgo, easily the best manager in Brazil in 90s and early 00s. Right now he is no more than ordinary manager with poor records in past 7 years.

What happened?

Any manager in the world is succesful as long as they can make the players do what the manager has in mind, so one guy in the program say one of the problems with Luxemburgo is the players of this generation just don't see him as great manager. Some players like Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos and Cafu saw Luxemburgo as the best manager they had work with, but a player like Neymar won't respect him as a great one.

Perhaps its the same thing with Mourinho. I don't believe a player like Hazard, Oscar, Fabregas, Diego Costa and other guys respect Jose Mourinho in same way Terry, Drogba and Lampard did.

While in England, Mourinho is like a God for the british press, outside UK his status is really different. Italian teams are well known for tactical discipline and pragmtaic football, so Mourinho had no difficult in imposing his idead in Internazionale. But lets look to our current squad, most of our players are from Brazil and Spain, two places where the words "arrogant" and "defensive" are more associated with Mourinho than "genius".

Even Hazard is a different kind of player. Remember that months ago Hazard said Robinho was one of his favorite players. I'm sure Hazard just doesn't see Mourinho as this football genius and in his ideal wolrd he just want a manager with a different approach.

The situationg only gets worse when the results are not coming. The players start to think even more the manager is not as good as he think he is, so it gets even more difficult to control the squad.

Spot on. to add to that, managers (like players and most people in every works of life) lose their ability, focus, desire etc overtime. Some managers fail to adapt to the ever so changing style and demand of the modern game and are left behind as a result. Hence why the general consensus is that Jose's tactics are outdated, predictable and stale. Look at managers like Capello, Hiddink, Wenger, Van gaal et al. Amazing spells in the 90's and early 2000s but average ever since.

I don't know why it's so inconceivable to some, the concept of Jose losing his mojo, just like great managers before him. As much as people like to point to the fact that we won the league last season, His overall performance,in reality, was far from spectacular and we were able to win the league due to our rivals offering little to no challenge for the title at all.

[11Drogba 2,000]

Even Hazard is a different kind of player. Remember that months ago Hazard said Robinho was one of his favorite players. I'm sure Hazard just doesn't see Mourinho as this football genius and in his ideal wolrd he just want a manager with a different approach.

Hazard: "We are not made to play football." ...and we are not.

[lionsden 4,689]

Hazard: "We are not made to play football." ...and we are not.

i wonder what style/type of football players like hazard,fabregas,willian, pedro,Remy et al are made for. A manager that knows what he's doing will get our team playing much better football. And by better football, I don't mean tiki taka or any of that fancy stuff but proper well rehearsed and well executed football be it counter attack, possession football, high pressing etc. Jose has brainwash some people into believing our squad is only capable of producing disorganized, boring, unimaginative, dull football.

It's easy for any spectator to recognize that we are the polar opposite of a well drilled, well coached team. A well coached team knows how to attack, how to defend, how to execute tactical orders down to a tee and doesn't rely mostly on luck to win matches like we have been doing since January and for the best part of jose's second tenure at the club. Don't forget the football we produced in 2013/14 was absolutely dare as well and one can only point to very few matches like the one against City (away) and season opener as the decent performances we had that season.

Most chelsea fans will be happy if the team actually looks well trained/drilled and produces the level of football that it can be capable of producing majority of the time.

good football is good football and rubbish football/performances is rubbish football. that has never changed although some people might try to present one as the other. It's just a cop out to immediately assume "good football" always equals tiki taka whenever some fans demand improvement in the team's performance.

Now if the question is that we are well coached but the players are not responding to the training methods then the blame still has to fall on the manager for failing to correctly teach/coach his players and motivate them. in addition to that, he's been here for 3 seasons ( currently in his third season) so the excuse that he lacks the players to play the style of football he intends to doesn't follow either.

[11Drogba 2,000]

Tell us the style/type of football players like hazard,fabregas,willian, pedro,Remy are made for then. A manager that knows what he's doing will get our team playing much better football. And by better football, I don;t mean tiki taka or any of that fancy stuff but proper well rehearsed and well executed football be it counter attack, possession football, high pressing etc. Jose has brainwash some people into believing our squad is only capable of producing disorganized, boring, unimaginative, dull football.

It's easy for any spectator to recognise that we are the polar opposite of a well drilled, well coached team. A well coached team knows how to attack, how to defend, how to execute tactical orders down to a tee and doesn't rely mostly on luck to win matches like we have been doing since January and for the best part of jose's second tenure at the club. Don't forget the football we produced in 2013/14 was absolutely dare as well and one can only point to very few performances like the one against City (away) and season opener as the decent games we had that season.

Most chelsea fans will be happy if the team looks well trained and produces the level of football that this side can be capable of majority of the time. possession based football that the likes of Barca and bayern play isn't what we mean when we say "good football". good football is good football and rubbish football/performances is rubbish football. that has never changed although some people might try to present one as the other.

I don't think Hazard meant the squad. When Arsenal fans were singing boring, boring Chelsea some of our players probably agreed with those fans. I think players like Hazard, De Bruyne, Mata prefer to play matches like Liverpool-City in 2014.

People always say players we sell are not fighters etc. but when Moyes spent hours on defensive practice United players also lost their motivation.

[TeddyBear 6]

I don't think Hazard meant the squad. When Arsenal fans were singing boring, boring Chelsea some of our players probably agreed with those fans. I think players like Hazard, De Bruyne, Mata prefer to play matches like Liverpool-City in 2014.

People always say players we sell are not fighters etc. but when Moyes spent hours on defensive practice United players also lost their motivation.

First post I've done but I've been thinking a similar thing for a while. Been thinking about this psycholgical side for a while.

I'm using my own experiences in life as my basis. You can't do what you don't like effectively for a long period of time, you get mental restrictions. You simply get disappointed and start looking for alternatives. Most of our attacking players have grown up in environments where the most skillful are hailed as the best. They've become the players they are because of their attacking talent, they look forward to the game so they can get out there and show millions what they are capble of attacking-wise. Everyone keeps saying results always come first but I believe deep down they feel much more powerful emotions and satisfaction if they have an amazing attacking game and draw 3-3 rather than grind out a 1-0 win with 2 shots all game against an inferior opponent.

If you think logically the 1-0 is obviously the better result but you simply can't sustain that mentality with certain players. I know at least I would be having so many dark thoughts if I was in Hazard's place last season. Can I really fulfill my potential playing like that? Did I spend 15 years of my youth working so hard for this? And so on, and so on. You will never hear anyone say it but deep down they are all just humans who want to have fun in their work. And these aren't the thoughts of this season, but last season.

When we were looking for a new manager a couple years ago there was this usual Guardiola v Mourinho debate(before either had a new club). The most common thing I saw mentioned was that Guardiola only did it because of his amazing players and since Barcelona keep having success without him, he isn't really all that. I believe that's exactly the reason he is the best manager in the world. He was able to create a long-term succesful environment because his players were doing what they most wanted to do. There are exceptions which follow the example I brought earlier(ie Ibrahimovic has never not been the main man in the team and he simply didn't want to play that way for Guardiola) but by and large he established the fundamentals for a decade of success.

I don't believe Jose can do that, it is not in his nature. Jose wants to be the main man, it has to be his way that gets us the titles. Because we aren't mentally ready to go another season like the last we will start playing more attacking football this season (already have to be honest, all games are a lot more open). The problem is we are not really good at that stuff because his focus has always been defesnvie and set-pieces. Its up to Jose now to show he can be flexible and train a team with attaking mentality, if he can't he is done here. There was this great comparison of Pellegrini and Mourinho recently in one ESPN article. Pellegrini spend most of his training time on attacking movement while Mourinho prefers his attacking to improvise and mostly does defending and set-piece drills ont raining. Its a cliche but theres a reason for this 3rd season syndrome, you simply can't do what you don't like for 3 seasons in a row.

[MetsajCFC 1,255]

It's naive to think that it's only Mourinho's tactics that make us stutter. In my eyes we lack leaders, with the exception on Terry, who also is not the defender he used to be. I doubt this would happen if we still had the likes of Drogba or Lampard in the dressingroom.

On top of that our players' confidence and form seems to be nothing compared to what it used to be, if anything that seems to be mental confidence we're lacking and that's something players need to meet Mourinho half way. In fact in my eyes Mourinho is even overly protective (putting himself on the line of fire with provocative behaviour, statements and so on) of our players and the club, and yet, gets stick from our own fans (Internet fans) - I do realise the mood is very different towards Mourinho amongst the match-going fans, they've got the respect and PATIENCE, Mourinho, our most succesful manager ever, deserves.

With the form on the pitch and drama off the pitch makes Chelsea an easy target for the media and it's sad to read that so many of our fans, if I can use that word, are feeding into it. I can only imagine you as friends when times are not so good. Mourinho and the players deserve that we close one eye and get fully behind them. That's the only way everyone can move forward.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

most of those players left because they wanted, not because we asked them to (the list in the post you quoted).

Some of them didn't fit the plan, as much as people love Mata, we had huge issues playing with him, just like we have huge issues in our midfield right now.

The KdB saga have been well reported throughout the whole thing and even Wolfsburg manager - when Kevin was at his best in the club - said that Kevin is the kind of player that works well when things work the way he wants them to work, when he's got the power. Sorry, I don't want a player like that in my team, even if he's Messi or Ronaldo.

All others left because they were rightfully benched for better players - except Luís. I continue to believe that's been the only mistake Mourinho's done with players leading them to leave the team and I think he's very close to lead Remy to do the same, which would account as another mistake.

The 'I told so' party looks happy now - some of them - which is obnoxious as hell. Sorry, but they haven't told anything so. The team is completely off track right now, there might be some dressing room problem but fact remains all of those players except the keepers haven't showed up. They aren't performing and they don't look like trying hard to change it. did they predict Hazard to play shit? Cesc to play shit? Azpilicueta to lose his solidness? Matic to look shaky?

It's so easy to say 'We've been saying since January how bad the team is' and since the end of January - when City had the same amount of points as us we won a EPL title. Things look terrible now, it's a really bad moment and I think our EPL season is already compromised and we may not play UCL the following season, but am I to suppose the 'I told so' party also predicted Azpilicueta, Matic, Hazard, JT - which were our most solid players to be playing so bad now? Or will they say that when the rest is so bad there's nothing they can do? If I were to mention their individual mistakes in just five matches this post would be much longer. Yes, Cesc had a bad patch, but wasn't the 'I told so' party convinced it was because he can't perform in second halves of seasons? When some people pointed other things around they came barking this half-arsed excused as if it was gospel. Well, why aren't they saying it now? Oh because it's now the first half of the season, so they decided to point out what few had refused to acknowledge: he's slow and doesn't offer the physicality in the midfield. It worked for many months, it could work again just like that. The thing is the system isn't working, no player is working, the manager isn't working, even the computer isn't working. It's a collective things (people) gone wrong thing and then we're in this form. But let's replace Cesc doesn't play in the second half for a new more fitting one: José Mourinho doesn't stand longer than 2 seasons, it's a 3-season curse (or inability, you decide the term).

Sorry, many points are valid, but there's no much self-entitlement, and big egos going on (which is SOOOOOO amusing when said people are slamming mourinho for having a big ego) that is hard to take some people seriously.

Also, if we're out of UCL for a season, if we don't win bullocks this season, it won't be the first, second or even tenth time in the history of this club. It's not the end of the world. We rose to the world's football elite very quickly and even if we momentarily fall off of it, it won't be the end of the world either. We can just easily climbed it up again. Ask anyone 12 years ago if they believed our rising to football elite would be as fast as it had been and they would laugh hard in your face and call you delusional. If we did it once, I don't see why we couldn't do it again from a much better 'starting' point right now, have things gone to the worst.

The overreaction is still overboard by how far some people are taking this. And if by losing the football elite badge would mean losing some sort of fans, I'm all for it and I'll embrace it with all my heart. With quantity there's always a drop in quality, so I wouldn't mind that at all.

Jose is making a lot of mistakes, he still has my support and it's his mess to fix. If he notices he can't fix it, he should be the one to step down. The players are so poor right now, that's almost second hand embarrassment, it's also their mess to fix and if they can't find it within themselves the right motivation to play and defend this shirt as they should (and as they have been doing) they can also write down their transfer request. All of them will go away at some point, but Chelsea will stay, even if it's not at the top and while I won't be too happy about it, I won't love the club any less. But I don't believe what's happening right now jeopardizes what we've accomplished at all. We may take a setback, but we'll be at the top again soon after it, if it even happens in the first place. So, the overreaction is really unnecessary. It has happened with the biggest historical teams in the world, what made people believe we were to be immune to that? And most of them came to the top again...

[Billy. 2,742]

I think Roman's 'You're Fired' finger is itching him like made atm, but i do think he will give Jose the rest of the season to turn things around. I also feel that the UCL will be the only thing to save his bacon. So if Jose does go next summer I got a feeling we will see Klopp in charge

[didierforever 7,349]

5 games in and there's already those calling for Mou's head,.. So much plastic, maybe it would be good for the club to burn off some of the false fan base.

Heads up, it's quite plausible for City to drop 15 points. We dropped a lot. Also with Aguero out, arsenal coming up (afaik, the same useless Jose beat them 6-0 just two years ago) this is the perfect time to bounce back and I hope we seize the chance.

quite right mate. people are plastic because we want ivanovic to be dropped. hmmm.

by the way, give me a sane reason of why ivanovic is starting every game? please enlighten us as you are the "true fan", right?

[Cosmin 2,484]

In my opinion, the main problem is that this team lacks enthusiasm. The players don't seem to enjoy football at all. There's clearly a mental block happening and I don't know how it can be stopped. A good manager should be the one able to do that, a good manager should be able to solve this crisis. Mourinho is, obviously not good, he is great. But, unfortunately, he seems to be more preoccupied about his ego and image and about giving the media bollocks to write and talk about and cursing at other managers. Our strategy, ever since last winter, was a mess. I don't know what needs to be changed, maybe the manager, maybe someone else, but things can't go on like this. It's a shame, we've never been so bad (modern era), not even under Scolari or AVB, tbh. Earlier, I was watching Leicester's comeback against Villa and there was such a positive energy in the stadium. The manager, the fans, the players, they were all full of confidence and energy. We look like a crock.

[Melanicus 5,208]

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

quite right mate. people are plastic because we want ivanovic to be dropped. hmmm.

by the way, give me a sane reason of why ivanovic is starting every game? please enlighten us as you are the "true fan", right?

Just have some goddamn faith. Literally if you won't support us when we're shit, then you're a plastic fan, you seriously think one of the best managers in football history isn't good enough for us and cannot get us out of this mess? Utter stupidity.

Afaik, I don't think Baba is at full fitness and that is why Ivanovic is still starting, not due to some conspiracy about Jose and him being bum buddies which you lot seem to believe.

[Styles 9,790]

José is getting exposed big time for his lack of tactics and imagination.

[didierforever 7,349]

Just have some goddamn faith. Literally if you won't support us when we're shit, then you're a plastic fan, you seriously think one of the best managers in football history isn't good enough for us and cannot get us out of this mess? Utter stupidity.

Afaik, I don't think Baba is at full fitness and that is why Ivanovic is still starting, not due to some conspiracy about Jose and him being bum buddies which you lot seem to believe.

so baba is fit enought to start for ghana but not for us.

why did iva start against everton?

why not azpi-gc-jt-zouma?

so why the fuck not?

why is cesc starting? RLC is not good enough to replace cesc in the form? then why the fuck is he even in our squad when players like pasalic and mvg are out on loan.

i will have some faith when i see jose making the right calls for the club, instead of the right calls for his players.

and who the fuck said, i am not supporting my club. i am supporting CHELSEA FOOTBALL CLUB. get your fucking priorities right. supporting jose is not equal to supporting CFC, understnd that? and the best manager in the history is the person whose stubborness and ignorance has got us into this mess. our squad is no way as bad as getting 4 points in 5 games and being 17th in the league. the best manager in the world should have made the appropraite changes after losing to arsenal, getting owned by swansea and getting butt fucked by city. but he did not. and we can see our current situation.

[didierforever 7,349]

José is getting exposed big time for his lack of tactics and imagination.

what? no he is not. he is the best manager in the history of football and playing ivanovic as a RB is the perfectest solution ever. did not u get the memo?