The Mourinho Thread

[didierforever 7,349]

Judge him after the Porto game.

why?

so that we are officially out of league cup, challenging for PL and out of CL by the start of december?

[bellion 170]

I am just waiting for the axe to fall on Mourinho's neck and the sooner the better for the club.

He's not a long term football manager since he shuns blooding youth and is fast becoming a football relic with his one-dimensional defensive tactics and stubborness in constantly picking Ivanovic and Fabregas.

Only bloody idiots support him. They should call themselves Mourinho fanboys rather than Chelsea fans.

[zakhov 253]

 

It's a curse really. We've been cursed... Attacking football, We know we want it, the owner wants it and the players want it... but we're doomed not to have it. Every investment the club has made for the past 5 years was geared towards achieving exactly that... some how we're back to square one.

Since Roman took over, we have only been an attacking team for few stretches of a season before it starts to wane.

Mourinho's first spell when he had a fully fit Robben/Duff and Joe Cole with Drogs/Eidur up front. This only lasted until 2006/2007 after which we sold Robben and brought in Malouda. Under Scolari we were briefly attacking again and we put in some great matches up until December where we lost the plot in the dressing room. I wouldn't consider us an attacking under Hiddink (we were moderate and effective) and under AVB we were clueless most of the time. Amcelotti's first season was great (probably the closest we've come to a whole season of attacking football) but his second was really frustrating.

Robbie came in after AVB and swept up the defense clean which helped us win the FA Cup and the Holy Grail. Robbie's second season was unfortunate, he started brightly then a freak result against United and a certain Clattenbug undid us and we never recovered under him until he was sacked. Under Rafa, we were inconsistent, attacking against the minnows but we played defensively against the teams better than us.

Mourinho's first season was a mixed bag, great counter-attacking against the big teams but we were similar to what we are now (but better defensively) against the so-called minnows.

Last season up until January was great football, then the Spurs result happened and we haven't played half as good since.

Just to sum things up, there's no coach in the world that can provide results with attacking football for a whole season. If we get someone like Pep, we'll be entertainment initially but his lack of pragmatism will bite us hard in some games (and important ones).

Mourinho's time is nearly up I'm afraid but I don't see any other coach doing better in terms of getting both success and how we want the club to play.

[stroey 2,525]

 

why?

so that we are officially out of league cup, challenging for PL and out of CL by the start of december?

 

I assume reaching the 2nd round of the CL is one of the minimum targets for the season.

If he achieved this, how would you react? And do you think that reaching the 2nd round could have a positive influence on the players and their performances for the rest of December?

[didierforever 7,349]

   

I assume reaching the 2nd round of the CL is one of the minimum targets for the season.

If he achieved this, how would you react? And do you think that reaching the 2nd round could have a positive influence on the players and their performances for the rest of December?

how is anything going to change? is cesc and costa going to start to give a crap again? is ivanovic suddenly going to develop good ball playing technique, is oscar suddenly going to develop to his "potential" (if there ever was any). is jose going to start selecting on merit? is remy suddenly going to start bloody games?

every question has a straight forward answer NO.

he has no balls, and he showed it with his line up yesterday. for a person who likes to deman so much of his players, he cant give ANYTHING. he cant adjust, mould or adapt.

[Last Sicarius 610]

In this group in CL we should win easy most of matches :v Eh, our ambitions are going lower and lower in this season.

[Stats 7,230]

Judge him after the Porto game.

Even if we win, what does it prove? He got us through to the UCL knockouts which should be a minimum requirement. It still does not disguise the fact that we have been awful. Regardless of results, he needs to go.

[Iggy Doonican 4,187]

Don't know. She always reminded me of one. Can you not imagine her with a flowy skirt and a scarf around her head, dancing on a windy field with excessive jewelry dangling in every direction?

https://youtu.be/cA3K9st55xU

[lucio 5,418]

   

I assume reaching the 2nd round of the CL is one of the minimum targets for the season.

If he achieved this, how would you react? And do you think that reaching the 2nd round could have a positive influence on the players and their performances for the rest of December?

we get through, and we are doomed to not have CL next season. new manager and europa is our only hope

[Rmpr 8,977]

Do you know managers who made that move straight from South America to Europe's elite succesfully? Or even unsuccesfully? I can't think of anyone. And I also wonder why it barely happens.

For the same reason players barely move from SA directly to Europe's top clubs. Because they prefer to pay millions to clubs like Atletico, Porto, Shakthar, Benfica, Ajax, etc, than to do a proper scouting job and allow playing time so the players can develop and shine.

A club like Chelsea usually doesnt want to take the risk in signing a relatively unknown Argentinean who has only won things in South American instead of signing a big markee European name. Even if the manager has shown to be quality and pay-off can be huge.

It is just how things are...

[Miki-Liki 405]

So reaching the knockout stage through one of the weakest groups in CL history is now considered a feat.

[stroey 2,525]

how is anything going to change? is cesc and costa going to start to give a crap again? is ivanovic suddenly going to develop good ball playing technique, is oscar suddenly going to develop to his "potential" (if there ever was any). is jose going to start selecting on merit? is remy suddenly going to start bloody games?

every question has a straight forward answer NO.

he has no balls, and he showed it with his line up yesterday. for a person who likes to deman so much of his players, he cant give ANYTHING. he cant adjust, mould or adapt.

To have reached one of your minimum targets could release pressure from the players, it's also good to have another competition to focus on where they are at least doing okay. I believe this could boost their performances in December. I agree RLC and Remy deserve starts though.

Even if we win, what does it prove? He got us through to the UCL knockouts which should be a minimum requirement. It still does not disguise the fact that we have been awful. Regardless of results, he needs to go.

Exactly this.The minimum target/requirement for 1 competition is achieved, so that means/proves the season isn't a 100% failure. If we fail to qualify, I agree the season is over.

we get through, and we are doomed to not have CL next season. new manager and europa is our only hope

I don't believe we're doomed, United went 1 season without CL football and nothing happened. We are already an established big club in the world.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Who would you bring in as a replacement?

[Peace. 4,352]

In the five last years, it seems we have set some embarrassing 'precedents'. With di Matteo, we have been the first Champions League winner to not qualify for the second round of the competition. Ancelotti also has his word to say : after winning an excellent Premier League title (103 goals..), he miserably failed the very next season. Even though he still managed to get the second spot, we played what was until now our worst football.

This two events, I am sure, were the roots of a lot of embarrassments and pain for Chelsea fans. After all, in these two situations, we became the laughing stock across Europe after having achieved something great.

In this respect, Mourinho is putting them into misery. After winning the League, we are into the relegation battle (don't fool yourselves, that's where we are : three points above the 18th) while playing the most boring, the most uncreative and unimaginative, the most hideous and the most ineffective football a top team has produced this last ten years. I though that Ancelotti and di Matteo have donne something great on a 'collapse' scale, but Mourinho takes the collapse to a whole new level...

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

To have reached one of your minimum targets could release pressure from the players, it's also good to have another competition to focus on where they are at least doing okay. I believe this could boost their performances in December. I agree RLC and Remy deserve starts though.

Exactly this.The minimum target/requirement for 1 competition is achieved, so that means/proves the season isn't a 100% failure. If we fail to qualify, I agree the season is over.

I don't believe we're doomed, United went 1 season without CL football and nothing happened. We are already an established big club in the world.

United are a completely different calibre. Also Liverpool are an established brand, still went downhill and will be mediocre for decades to come. Same happened with the Milan clubs. This is why our players and managers are 10 times as expensive as those of a mid-table club. We can not afford to fail. But we are doing just that and I am really afraid that we will have to rebuild for years just to be a top club again also with the new stadium to be build and our obvious lack of resources in the transfer market. Add to that the complete incompetence of the board/manager and you got the disaster we have slid into.

[ZOS 580]

I don't believe we're doomed, United went 1 season without CL football and nothing happened. We are already an established big club in the world.

Chelsea is a big club. But it certainly is not a Man Utd. Unlike the mancs, without CL football next season, we can not hope to attract big name players. We'd lose a considerable amount of TV revenue. We'd face the risk of loosing our star players... this is exactly what I dreaded back in 2012 but escaped miraculously. It sucks that its happening again. I don't think we'll be delivered this time

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

Who would you bring in as a replacement?

Emery/Guardiola/Simeone. I don't like them the way I like Klopp and used to like Mourinho as persons/coaches but I am sure each would bring something new to the table and be able to organize the squad, attract great players and let them finally play some kind of attractive, offensive football without neglecting the defense.

As for the caretaker position once we have fired Mourinho, I think anyone would do. It really should not be such a mean feat to get this squad out of the relegation zone. Top 4 is out of reach as well so we just could hire anyone Ancelotti, Rodgers or promote Steve Holland. The players need confidence, a gameplan, some attacking drills and a massive kick in the ass. Mourinho is not the man do deliver that cos he is even more in crisis but probably anyone would do.

In the five last years, it seems we have set some embarrassing 'precedents'. With di Matteo, we have been the first Champions League winner to not qualify for the second round of the competition. Ancelotti also has his word to say : after winning an excellent Premier League title (103 goals..), he miserably failed the very next season. Even though he still managed to get the second spot, we played what was until now our worst football.

This two events, I am sure, were the roots of a lot of embarrassments and pain for Chelsea fans. After all, in these two situations, we became the laughing stock across Europe after having achieved something great.

In this respect, Mourinho is putting them into misery. After winning the League, we are into the relegation battle (don't fool yourselves, that's where we are : three points above the 18th) while playing the most boring, the most uncreative and unimaginative, the most hideous and the most ineffective football a top team has produced this last ten years. I though that Ancelotti and di Matteo have donne something great on a 'collapse' scale, but Mourinho takes the collapse to a whole new level...

Actually I'd prefer to go from high to low than to be like Arsenal or Liverpool who have one mediocre season after the other and only win Mickey Mouse trophies. The question is how long will we need to recover to remedy the damage that has been done so far.

[The Chels 2,502]

No doubt I see those same errors too. I came away with the same thoughts after their away match at the Etihad, but like i mentioned earlier, all managers have their faults.

Pellegrino only coaches one side of the ball, and is incredibly naive when it comes to approaching European matches.

There aren't many managers who are pragmatic across Europe, or even at the other top clubs. Carlo, Pellers, Wenger, Pep, Luis Garcia, all die with their philosophy till the bitter end, and hope their players are better than yours on that given day and que sera sera. I'm personally not a fan of that approach, but a shift in ideology is definitely needed at Chelsea. And if it means witnessing more 3-3 draws, and 3-2 losses, than we are accustomed to witnessing as Chelsea fans, so be it. Too much attacking talent, is being wasted right now. A lot of our players technical ability is regressing. We need to give the expansive approach a proper go, (AVB's try was sabotaged and doesn't really count imo). A style of football that plays to the strengths of Hazard/Cesc and our tremendous talent in the youth ranks is needed.

Hiring a Sampaoli/Simeone type is not too different from the JM school of football. Obviously they have been more successful than the latter in recent years, and have been very effective in properly implementing their style, but the pragmatism is still very much there. And tbh, we will continue to be poor defensively until we properly revamp our defense. Azpi and Zouma are the only players capable of winning 1v1 duels on a consistent basis, which is needed for all great defenses. JT/Ivan/Cahill just do not cut it. That's the way I see it.

Who would be you ideal choice to succeed JM?

All fair points and I agree with much of what you said. In the end I guess it comes down to personal preference. I can certainly see why someone like Emery would be appealing and why, like Pizy I think it was, a lot of Chelsea fans want someone completely different to Mourinho, someone with an attacking philosophy.

However, from my perspective I would prefer a Sampaoli/Simeone type. Sure such managers might be considered pragmatic, but I don't think they are as similar to Mourinho as people believe. For one, the energy with which their teams play far exceeds those of Mourinho, and the ability of El Cholo especially to create such a solid defensive and counter attacking system that is far more important than any player (and again is something beyond Mourinho IMO as, even defensively, he increasingly relies too much on individuality) is incredibly impressive. I also think we'd have a greater chance of winning trophies, alongside the implementation of youth, than with someone who might offer a style of football 'easier on the eye', arguably only Guardiola withstanding.

[DYC. 7,542]

https://youtu.be/cA3K9st55xU

I was even more confused than the mechanic. No idea what that old manlady said.

For the same reason players barely move from SA directly to Europe's top clubs. Because they prefer to pay millions to clubs like Atletico, Porto, Shakthar, Benfica, Ajax, etc, than to do a proper scouting job and allow playing time so the players can develop and shine.

A club like Chelsea usually doesnt want to take the risk in signing a relatively unknown Argentinean who has only won things in South American instead of signing a big markee European name. Even if the manager has shown to be quality and pay-off can be huge.

It is just how things are...

At least players actually do make the move. Even a player like Douglas ended up at Barca. But never managers. I've never understood that. Atletico's choice to go for Simeone when they were seriously struggling turned out to be a stroke of genius. Of course his history at the club played a big part in the appointment.

All fair points and I agree with much of what you said. In the end I guess it comes down to personal preference. I can certainly see why someone like Emery would be appealing and why, like Pizy I think it was, a lot of Chelsea fans want someone completely different to Mourinho, someone with an attacking philosophy.

However, from my perspective I would prefer a Sampaoli/Simeone type. Sure such managers might be considered pragmatic, but I don't think they are as similar to Mourinho as people would believe. For one, the energy with which their teams play far exceeds those of Mourinho, and the ability of the Argentine especially to create such a solid defensive and counter attacking system that is far more important than any player (and again is something beyond Mourinho IMO as, even defensively, he increasingly relies too much on individuality) is incredibly impressive. I also think we'd be getting bigger chance of winning trophies, alongside the implementation of youth, than with someone who might offer a style of football 'easier on the eye', arguably only Guardiola withstanding.

Is Emery really that attacking? I've always viewed his Sevilla as a hustle and bustle team rather than a stylish and adventurous team.

[The Chels 2,502]

Is Emery really that attacking? I've always viewed his Sevilla as a hustle and bustle team rather than a stylish and adventurous team.

Maybe my perception of them is tainted by their games versus Atleti, the ones I watch with most interest, but still I would say yes in the sense that they often go all out attack and leave themselves open at the back. The exception is probably only against Madrid/Barcelona, where they adopt a more counter-attacking approach. In general they play with good intensity and their attacking play is often excellent to watch, but overall they are too defensively susceptible for my liking.