Roman Abramovich Thread

[laura90 556]

Whats the bet if Shakhtar beat Juve and we win vs Nordjsaelland half of yous "anti-Benitez" critics will shut up for a while. Well hopefully.

Same old story. AVBesque

Winning trophies makes manager perfect and world class regardless of experience and consistency whatsoever.

When they are going trough bad patch in this club: Leave them, they have huge potential, they are for the future.

When they are fired, If you say, well maybe they didn't have enough skill or experience,: You are evil, I hope their future success will make you shut up. You are not supporter, or even better, you are plastic.

When somebody take over after AVB and succeed: Well AVB was clueless, look him at Tottenham, he is a clown.

I can't see if Benitez will be better, but I have a feelng not so much.

So it will take RDM to have another job in order to see if he was perfect or not.

The best scenario would be if he could get Mancini's job. Unlike Mancini, he knows how to win Champions League and I would like to see him winning another one. Not to mention, with those players, we would see how good manager he really is, without, well he has worse players than he would have with us..

Everybody is cheering when we get Mata, Hazard, Oscar and expects Falcao and so, but that comes with a price. They don't consider that maybe, for long term success, great players need even better manager to get the best out of everybody. As long as we don't have 'perfect' manager who has it all, they will search for one. Deal with it.

Being club legend and winning trophies demands respectfull treatment, but doesn't make 'perfect' long term manager for the club. Fact.

Wait for his next job, and than have your say. He won't have problems with getting one.

[bloody 209]

agreed with what tomo-91, henrique, muzchap, ryandavidson, kojo posted here.

[termninja 5,290]

Shahtjor is Ukranian. Roman is Russian. Roman is rich. Shaktjor need to win for us to remain in CL.

[Rambo 1,729]

Shahtjor is Ukranian. Roman is Russian. Roman is rich. Shaktjor need to win for us to remain in CL.

Giving Juve a taste of their own medicine?

[GodZola 630]

Good debate, decent thread - well done Tomo!

Firstly I didn't like most agree with RDMs sacking but can also understand Romans thinking- even Jose would of been fired for not making the last 16 of the CL so it came as no surprise to me, RDM was in the same boat as Ranieri in that he was a dead man walking, Roman was just waiting for the opportunity to sack him & recent results have given him that chance to wield the axe...again!

I believe Romans pride has been stung in the very fact that bringing Torres to the club was a mistake & to get him out of the £50m hole he sacks a club legend who also happens to have class & brings in a man who is the last throw of the Torres dice just to try & justify his knee jerk January transfer because that is the sole reason Benitez is here - does that justify some of the ridiculous comments on here about Roman? Absolutely not, every fam has a right to be angry & to vent some steam towards Roman & his henchmen but some comments go over the line.

Some of us waited a quarter of century to see us win something & had to endure watching crap most of the tine, Roman has taken us to the pinnacle of European elite & I will always be forever in his debt for that & some of you jonnycomelatelys should try to imagine what state we were in pre Roman & many years before that.

I'm not happy about Benitez either & already vented my anger on his performance tonight but I will remain open minded & give the guy a chance, I hope the Chelsea faithful eventually do the same.

[Manuf 1,448]

Yes, because under RDM we would have lost to Nordsaelland, a team we beat 4-0 on the road, at Stamford Bridge and what Shaktar does is influenced by who are coach is. Give me a break.

We'll have to play even more defensive against almighty Nordsjaelland. No offence to their team as I thought they played nice football.

[Shane 2,275]

Whats the bet if Shakhtar beat Juve and we win vs Nordjsaelland half of yous "anti-Benitez" critics will shut up for a while. Well hopefully.

They'll all be 0-0 draws going on current form.

Rafa's mentailty 'We won't score, but they won't either!"

[Strike 7,474]

Why because he slagged us off in the past? you really think Lampard, Terry and Cole didn't slagg us off at any point growing up as West Ham, United and Arsenal fans respectively?

Roman always does what he thinks is best for the club, as an interim appointment Benitez is as good as we are going to get.

This has unsettled the team for yet another season. benitez going back to bertrand in midfield again. what a joke.roman should have gone for benitez from the start of the season itself.... all a bit chaotic right now --> one of the main reasons for the roman bashing

[laura90 556]

We needed world class manager in 2004 - we got him.

We didn't need world class manager in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. We could use one, of course, but the core of the team in Terry, Lampard, Cole, Essien, Ballack, Drogba, and their leadership, commitment, experience was good enough to bail us, and every interim manager, out. It was not all about their qualities, it was about their mental strength to overcome everything bad in or around club together with managers mery-go-round.

But we are losing this core , and it is quite obvious we won't be able to afford the same behavior with new generation of players. Especially taking in consideration how we got them.

That is maybe why Roman wanted long term manager in AVB 2011. But the problem was, we needed world class to deal with our transition and last years of core players while remaining successfull. Something needed to be sacrificed, mainly CL spot, in order to give AVB time. AVB put core players in sidelines putting in dangeur both, PL and CL. Had he stayed, we would probably be in Europa League without CL trophy, but would have had some kind of stability and more experienced AVB for manager.

Then RDM , fan's long term manager, came, started by changing system to more defensive and giving main roles to core players who made the best of it, mainly in CL. PL remained sacrificed, but who cared, we won CL and FA cup.

Summer of 2012 , exodus of experienced players. New, unexperienced, talented, under 21 were coming. Without a striker. How to make the best out of Mata, Oscar, Hazard's talent? How to rotate without exhausting them? How to play attacking football and remain solid defensively? How to score without a striker? How to survive untill next transfer window?

Chelsea job became the hardest in the world of football . World class manager was needed more than ever, even more than in 2004. RDM is not that kind, he has his flaws, mainly lack of balance between attack and defense, relyng on individual brilliance, casual lack of system and organisation against strong teams, but that isn't strange having in mind his experience. We could stick with RDM but that would probably mean no CL for next year. He needs time.

Now we are left with yet another interim manager we hate, whose task is to keep CL spot.

It's quite ironic how pursuit for long term manager in AVB ( Roman ) brought one of the biggest managers mary go round here.

We will get striker and CM in January. We still have changed core of the team too late and we will face consequences.

To remain successfull as price tag of our new team suggests, we need maestro in coaching department, who submits pressure well, can pull all strings together and make the best out of players and this difficult situation. Mourinho like.

Or we need to leave ambition aside, be patient and give a coach with potential time even if that means risk of losing trophies or CL spot for year or two. RDM like.There is no other way.

It has to be long term manager regardless. Without core, he is the only source of stability.

This club is in downfall and that's awful. Why can't we settle for quiet year and build some foundations? Impatience is killing this club and after CL trophy it's sad and inexcusable. I know that money spent is not meant to be wasted, but sometimes money is just not all it takes.

My last rant. Sorry.

[Kieran. 6,317]

[long rant]

You don't post often, but your posts are always great. A credit to the forum.

[LayZ 201]

Great post laura...

But one point of contention is transition needs to be a constant state,there is no perfect team in this world....only teams like Liverpool make a big fuss about transition,great teams like Barcelona and Manchester United incorporate youngsters all the time without any kind of publicity at all...imagine Darren Fletcher and Johnny Evans starting their careers at Chelsea,they would never have cut it here and would probably have gone on to become jobbing footballers for mid table clubs...

[Peace. 4,352]

Good analyse Laura, you pretty summed up what I wanted to say for some times now (didn't have time).

-----------------------------

First of all, I'd like to say that the thread title is not true. The world isn't all black or all white. Nowadays, the managerial instability might be trendy, altough managerial stability still exists.

Now, the questions are : Does the fact that managerial instability is the new flavor mean we should also act this way ? Does the fact managerial instability didn't affect our team in a negative way, mean we should continue in this path ? Does the fact it worked till now mean that firing managers whenever something goes wrong will work forever ?

Untill now, we enjoyed a successful decade and lifted many trophies, while going through a genuine instability. Ever since Mourinho was appointed at the club, we had hired seven managers in eight seasons (I am not counting this one). Though it didn't keep us away of winning the Champions League, three Premier League and a handful of FA Cup / League Cup. So... Hooray ! From now on, we should not be hesitating a second to sack managers, it doesn't affect us, doesn't it ?

Nah. We might seem to be above all this nonsense of managerial longevity, but actually we aren't, and the fact we have managed to survive to this managerial musical chairs is way more complexe to explain than to solely say "Roman knows what he does - and managerial longevity doesn't exist anymore".

Indeed. We might have not experienced managerial stability, nonetheless we experienced a longevity : the longevity and stability of our squad. I ask you, what is the similarity between all these eight seasons ? Four players who were the core of Chelsea, who made the success of our beloved team. They were Petr Cech, John Terry, Frank Lampard and Didier Drogba. They were all world-class players, and arguably ones of the best players at their position. But they weren't only about that. They had this never-die mentality, they were the kind of players to give their heart on the field, to stand-up when things were going wrong, they were natural leaders. In short they were embodying our club during all those years.

And around this core of players, we had players of the likes of Ricardo Carvalho (six seasons), Michael Ballack (four seasons), Michael Essien (seven seasons) and Ashley Cole. They were also world-class players, and had a winning mentality. At the exception of Ballack and Cole, all of the players I mentioned above were shaped by Mourinho. José considerably influenced the way we played, the way we acted and reacted during all these eight seasons, even if he wasn't there. Each and everytime something went wrong, our team was switching of in the "Mourinho mode". We went in the Champions League final in 2008 because the team played this way. We should have made it to the final the next year, more or less thanks to that (Hiddink did a fantastic job, but he was helped by the fact the players were already adapted to the defensive football). We won the Champions by playing this old good park-the-bus tactict implanted in by the portugesh. During all those years José Mourinho's face was lurking upon the Bridge. Ad to the mix some players of the like of Paulo Feirerra (eight seasons), Salomon Kalou (six seasons), John Obi Mikel (six seasons) and Branislav Ivanovic (five seasons). Even though they weren't as important as he aforementioned players, they were still part of the club for a long time.

Mourinho built a well-oiled engin. This team could play by itself, play without manager (i.e. Grant area...). The managerial merry-go round didn't affect them because they were an unity, they knew what they had to do. They didn't need the manager at all to move their ass. During this eight seasons, our team didn't really change its face ; its heart remained the same during all those years. Mou set the foundation for his successors ! They all more or less used the pattern set by the portuguese : solid in defense, get the ball to Didier and let him to his job, with Lampard orchestrating the midfield (to different extends, Grant, Hiddink, Ancelotti and Di Matteo based their tacticts on this pattern). By the way, the two managers who tried to get away from the Mou legacy couldn't even finish the year. Therefore, we can say we had have stability at some level. We could even say that in some way, we had have the same manager during eight seasons throught Mourinho ghost.

Will we still get away from the bad effects caused by managerial instability in the futur ? No, I do not think so. We were able to get away till now, but that was in a particular context. I believe we should quite this, because I am affraid of us putting one knee on the ground and never be able to raise again.

Just take a look at the difference between the current team and the former one. Ima analyse two similar events : Chelsea 1 - 1 Barça in 2008-09 and Chelsea 2 - 3 ManU this year. In both games we were fucked badly by the ref. What happened back then ? Ballack was yelling like a vicking warrior at Overbro's ears and was running everywhere as if there wasn't any tomorrow. Drogba was insane and said the legendary "this is a fucking disgrace". Did we see something like this from our players ? Do not get me wrong, I am not saying we should act like insane men each and every time the ref makes a mistake, no. But did we see this explosion of passion mixed with rage after being robbed by the ref ? I don't think so. That might be a detail, but in my honest opinion that tells a lot.

And now, what is the situation ? Drogba has left. Ballack and Carvalho as well. Lampard isn't a starter anymore and we don't even know when he will have first team action again. Terry is also in decline, and because of injuries and off-football concerns, he cannot play regulary at the moment. While Ashley can still be world-class, he cannot maintain this level for all games. Essien is on loan, we don't know whether he'll play for Chelsea next year, and even if, he is only the shadow of what he was. Throughout last year and this summer, we also lost quite a few experienced players (Alex, Anelka, Kalou, Bosingwa - before everyone starts with the "Kalou and Bisingwa were shit", they were what they were, but they had experience and bring us some things young players cannot, c.f. Barça and Benfica games last year). And Florent Malouda and Paulo Feirerra migh be on a road trip now, with all the spare time they have.

We're left with a bunch of U23 players. We cannot rely all season long upon our experienced players. And a have only a few players at the age of their peak (let's say approximatively from 26 to 30 year-old, so Cahill, Ivanovic, Ladyboy) - out of three of them, one is helpless... So, basically, who is gonna drag our team like Lampard, Terry and Drogba were doing ? Oscar ? Mata ? Hazard ? Azpilicueta ? Cech would be nice, though he cannot do a lot of things considering he has to stay between the posts... The players the nearest of what we can actually call "leaders" are Ivanovic and Luiz - though it leaves a lot to be desired.

Furthermore, our manager merry-go round truly started when Mourinho got fired. At that moment, José had three years to build a team with solid basis. He didn't only do that, he built an extraordinary team. So, when the merry-go round started, that team had a great mentality, a great mental strength. Does our current team is like this ? No, that's quite the contrary. That team had a well identified play pattern. Does our current team possess this well identified pattern ? No !!! We do not have pattern, we do not have a style of play, we do not have an identity.

Who is gonna implant a play pattern ? Roberto Di Matteo ? No way, in four months he didn't have time. This spanish waiter ? In six month he won't have any time to forge a team. So who ? The random guy we'll hire this summer ? He will have a hell of a job : to take over a team, which in one year played during six months attacking football, and then for the six following months an atrocious negative football, and then implant his own game style ? Good luck with this, players may be lost... And what if he cannot escape to the Tsar judgment ? A bad vicious circle is lurking around.

To conclude, this isn't because untill now sacking manager didn't hit us that we should blindly carry on the musical chairs. This isn't because each sacking arguably turned out to be a good decision, that Roman will be always right in his choices. Mourinho legacy is vanishing in thin air and isn't there anymore. We have to build a team. And in order to fulfil this purpose, we have to have a managerial stability. Even Pep couldn't build our team in six months - this is a process which takes time. This is why I deeply believe we should take a break for a while and stick by a manager so we can build a solid foundation to our team. Precariousness isn't the right path to follow.

P.S. Apologies for the laborious english.

[zolayes 14,489]

Great post laura...

But one point of contention is transition needs to be a constant state,there is no perfect team in this world....only teams like Liverpool make a big fuss about transition,great teams like Barcelona and Manchester United incorporate youngsters all the time without any kind of publicity at all...imagine Darren Fletcher and Johnny Evans starting their careers at Chelsea,they would never have cut it here and would probably have gone on to become jobbing footballers for mid table clubs...

the old Liverpool of the 70s invented smooth transition ....change of managers from the boot room following on from Shankly ..

on the playing side bought big and well in advance of their immediate need ,, A model copied by Ferguson ...

Sadly we seem to be like a rudderless ship in a storm,,,the rocks beckon

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

That was 10 minutes well spent, two brilliant posts. And also two posts which proved that the way people feel about Roman's methods is almost entirely false.

[Kez 2,727]

Fuck. Reading what peace & laura just wrote. We're never going to find a manager like mourinho again. He changed the mentality of the players & turned them into winners. When these players leave things wont be the same chances are we'll struggle without a world class manager & one thats given time. I want mourinho back more than ever right now.