Erling Haaland

[Artandur 939]

3 minutes ago, Jas said:

True but it's the same thing either way - Dortmund selling their star player for less money a year later. Based on their stance with Sancho last summer and Haaland this year, would like to think they have weighed up the financial benefit and sporting benefit (e.g. qualifying for CL, winning a cup) by keeping a star player for another year. One could argue that it was Sancho's return to form this year that helped propel Dortmund into the Top 4 after their horrendous form under Favre and early on under Terzic. 

Look, i'm just looking for any reason to make this transfer happening actually seem feasible 😅 But you're right of course, BVB def have a history of being stubborn about stuff like this

[R2D2 368]

Forget all other positions CB, RWB or CM, get him at all costs, we can cope another year without any reinforcements in those positions but Haaland chance is only once in a lifetime.

[chippy 342]

Obscene transfer fee and wages which cannot be financially justified in any kind of way. A financial ball and chain of a deal  and completely blowing apart our wage structure like this is another very bad idea.

 

 

 

[DH1988 1,348]

12 minutes ago, chippy said:

Obscene transfer fee and wages which cannot be financially justified in any kind of way. A financial ball and chain of a deal  and completely blowing apart our wage structure like this is another very bad idea.

 

 

 

Whilst I agree regarding transfer fee, the wages are reported and we read all the time how inflated numbers are. I doubt we’d been looking at the deal in a serious manner if we are looking at +£200k a week ontop of our highest earner, give Marina some credit, she’s one of the best in the business.

[ZAPHOD2319 4,819]

 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

hace 5 horas, Jas dijo:

But the circumstances surrounding them are different, no? They were/are young and need game time to develop. If clubs in England - something that big clubs in England can't offer - then of course they would take the plunge to maybe go abroad and look for opportunities. 

I didn't say Trippier's move to Atletico and Tomori's move to Milan were bad. But it's also undeniable that in the former's case at least, his stock was low at Tottenham and Atletico offered him an escape route out of England to revive his fortunes.

Maybe but the circumstances alone don’t deter from the fact more and more youngsters/established players are moving abroad from English clubs.

It will only continue to happen not just for youngsters but other players ie looking at Bale’s success in Spain for 3 seasons or so when he first went there. Tripper going and winning La Liga as well. Ramsey going to Italy and winning 3 trophies with Juventus. Then the youngsters like Sancho, Bellingham, Musiala going to Germany for Dortmund/Bayern or even the likes of Lookman, Ampadu, Nelson, Smith-Rowe etc going to Leipzig/Hoffenheim etc in recent seasons on loans or permanents ahead of PL clubs for instance. Even Bayern and Dortmund wanting CHO as well. Players will go there, I don’t think its as easy as saying their only going cause the other teams/big teams wont play them for say, these leagues are of decent standard and present different challenges in their own right. Even more so why 75% of every top player in the PL has probably came through from another league. Even then Eriksen, isnt British fair enough but left a team who had reached a CL final to go to Italy and ended up winning Serie A.

Maybe but not as if the clubs haven’t made mistakes either ie us not using Tomori more the first 6 months (especially considering Rudiger and Andreas didn’t feature as often as well as Thiago Silva being 36) and also the last 6 months of the previous season he rarely played for whatever reason and then also Tottenham letting Tripper go when they had much worse options at right fullback. Tripper has been ever present for England since going to Spurs and thats continued in Spain. Not as if Spurs have/had better in Aurier or Kyle Walker-Peters at that time either and now Aurier wants to leave so they look even stupider. 

[Jype 6,398]

54 minutes ago, Jas said:

True but it's the same thing either way - Dortmund selling their star player for less money a year later. Based on their stance with Sancho last summer and Haaland this year, would like to think they have weighed up the financial benefit and sporting benefit (e.g. qualifying for CL, winning a cup) by keeping a star player for another year. One could argue that it was Sancho's return to form this year that helped propel Dortmund into the Top 4 after their horrendous form under Favre and early on under Terzic. 

The money they 'lost' by keeping Sancho for another year wasn't anywhere close to the decrease in value Haaland will have if they keep him till next year though. They'll still get 90-100m€ for Sancho this year and could have got maybe 120m€ last year, and while the difference is a still a big pile of money it can't even be mentioned together with 75m€ vs 170m€ for Haaland (assuming the release clause and approximated price for this year are even close to reality).

And I would guess they'd have sold Sancho even last year if United just coughed up the full asking price, but they didn't and instead tried to haggle till the very end of the transfer window despite Dortmund being very clear about the price and about their internal 'transfer deadline' when everything had to be settled or they won't sell. 

Also another thing worth noting is that if they keep Haaland till the release clause kicks in, they might easily end up losing him to Bayern and by selling outside of Germany this year they can dodge that potential bullet completely. With Sancho there wasn't such risk because it was always going to be an EPL club next for him.

Any deal for Haaland to Chelsea is probably still incredibly unlikely to happen but I don't believe for a second that a sale this year is 100% ruled out by Dortmund. If the club give them an offer they simply can't refuse they'd be stupid not to sell, and the reason for that is the release clause for next year. Whether a deal Dortmund would be happy with is at all financially viable for Chelsea is a whole other matter.

[Pizy 18,952]

1 hour ago, chippy said:

Obscene transfer fee and wages which cannot be financially justified in any kind of way. A financial ball and chain of a deal  and completely blowing apart our wage structure like this is another very bad idea.

 

 

 

So you’d rather him go to one of our rivals? You want world class players, you pay the premium.

This isn’t Kepa here who was a massive gamble that blew up in our faces. This is a proven, top class player.

Worth the crazy money.

[Mário César 1,282]

6 minutes ago, Pizy said:

So you’d rather him go to one of our rivals? You want world class players, you pay the premium.

This isn’t Kepa here who was a massive gamble that blew up in our faces. This is a proven, top class player.

Worth the crazy money.

Actually nobody aks for what Van Dijk or Alisson cost or CR7, etc etc

[Jase 43,479]

45 minutes ago, Jype said:

The money they 'lost' by keeping Sancho for another year wasn't anywhere close to the decrease in value Haaland will have if they keep him till next year though. They'll still get 90-100m€ for Sancho this year and could have got maybe 120m€ last year, and while the difference is a still a big pile of money it can't even be mentioned together with 75m€ vs 170m€ for Haaland (assuming the release clause and approximated price for this year are even close to reality).

That is true but it is still money lost at the end of the day. The point I was also trying to make there is if Dortmund keep hold of Haaland for at least another season, it would help boost their chances of qualifying for the Champions League again next season and maybe even do something in the Champions League itself. If that happens, then that would also guarantee they get as much money as possible. With Haaland and Sancho this past season, they almost didn't qualify for the Champions League. Imagine if they lose both in one go without having the time to find proper replacements. Given Dortmund are a decently run club, you would imagine Watzke and co. would have thought all these things through carefully. Mind you, it's also something that we did with Hazard.

51 minutes ago, Jype said:

Also another thing worth noting is that if they keep Haaland till the release clause kicks in, they might easily end up losing him to Bayern and by selling outside of Germany this year they can dodge that potential bullet completely. With Sancho there wasn't such risk because it was always going to be an EPL club next for him.

That is possible but we do not know what Haaland wants exactly, although there were previous reports that he favors a move to Real Madrid. Considering he seems like someone who likes challenges, one would think he would rather go to the Premier League or La Liga rather than stay in the Bundesliga with Bayern. 

On the other hand, from his perspective, if he is not sure about joining us, he can easily wait for another year and then have more clubs to choose from. Can even get more money through the wages. Would also be good financially from Raiola's perspective. 

53 minutes ago, Jype said:

Any deal for Haaland to Chelsea is probably still incredibly unlikely to happen but I don't believe for a second that a sale this year is 100% ruled out by Dortmund. If the club give them an offer they simply can't refuse they'd be stupid not to sell, and the reason for that is the release clause for next year. Whether a deal Dortmund would be happy with is at all financially viable for Chelsea is a whole other matter.

But Dortmund's stance with Sancho last summer and Haaland this summer is different, no? Yes, they were somewhat open to selling Sancho last year but IIRC, they had set a price for him (think they mentioned it in the public and not just rumors?); either a club pay what we want or he stays. This year, they are willing to let him go and even negotiate the fee etc. But with Haaland, all year they have said he is staying with them. I know it could be the typical ploy of getting a club to come forward and seeing how much they are willing to offer but they have been consistent with their stance in the public. They have also not mentioned any sort of fee for him this summer apart from those rumored numbers. We would have to make a really batshit crazy offer for them to make a complete U-turn and another really batshit crazy offer to convince Haaland. Otherwise, it would just be another example of Dortmund's strong stance when it comes to selling their players. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Maybe but the circumstances alone don’t deter from the fact more and more youngsters/established players are moving abroad from English clubs.

It will only continue to happen not just for youngsters but other players ie looking at Bale’s success in Spain for 3 seasons or so when he first went there. Tripper going and winning La Liga as well. Ramsey going to Italy and winning 3 trophies with Juventus. Then the youngsters like Sancho, Bellingham, Musiala going to Germany for Dortmund/Bayern or even the likes of Lookman, Ampadu, Nelson, Smith-Rowe etc going to Leipzig/Hoffenheim etc in recent seasons on loans or permanents ahead of PL clubs for instance. Even Bayern and Dortmund wanting CHO as well. Players will go there, I don’t think its as easy as saying their only going cause the other teams/big teams wont play them for say, these leagues are of decent standard and present different challenges in their own right. Even more so why 75% of every top player in the PL has probably came through from another league. Even then Eriksen, isnt British fair enough but left a team who had reached a CL final to go to Italy and ended up winning Serie A.

Yes, those players were willing to go abroad from English clubs but it also doesn't change the fact that circumstances played a part in that. Why do you think so many of the young players would be willing to go to the Bundesliga for example? Because clubs in Germany have a reputation of playing young players, academy players, giving them opportunities. Clubs in England generally don't do that, especially in the Premier League where there's too much at stake with the money etc. While there are success stories like Sancho and Bellingham, there are unsuccessful stories like Lookman, Ampadu and Smith-Rowe. Take Lookman for example. He went to Leipzig on loan in 2017/18, made 11 appearances. He was then bought by them in 2019, made 11 appearances but spent this past season on loan at Fulham. 

[milka 3,393]

 

[NikkiCFC 8,335]

3 hours ago, R2D2 said:

Forget all other positions CB, RWB or CM, get him at all costs, we can cope another year without any reinforcements in those positions but Haaland chance is only once in a lifetime.

The thing is we can pretty much still do that even with buying Haaland. 150m is our transfer budget and that is it. I think people are giving too much thoughts into this. Haaland coming here is basically far as Roman telling: lets do this or not. Now without FFP we can pretty much do whatever we want.

We need serviceable squad player for CB, someone to replace Zouma but with ball playing ability. For example Romagnoli has one year left on contract and is not regular anymore so Tomori-Romagnoli swap should do it. And we can add Giroud. Varane also one year left on contract, should not be that expensive. Not to mention guys like Sule or Ginter who are 30m max.

If we are after MF all other sales can cover that buy.

Players we have can continue on RWB or we can change formation and we dont need one. 

[chippy 342]

There's also other factors that would make this a bad move.

The pressure on TT to win the league would be enormous. Basically, it would be a  'win it, or else' level of demand.

Way higher level of expectations on all the players.

Unprecedented level of expectation on one particular player. Just imagine the media frenzy if he failed to score in his first couple of games. There'd be radio phone-ins  just on Haaland. 

Being Champs of Europe + Haaland will get every other team extra fired up when they play us.

It could very quickly turn into a bit of a circus and end up  rather messy.

 

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

9 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Now without FFP we can pretty much do whatever we want.

The FFP isn't relaxed to give clubs a free reign in the transfer market...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jun/18/uefa-agree-to-suspend-financial-fair-play-rules-due-to-pandemic

Otherwise, more clubs would have just gone BRR with it...

[King Kante 1,643]

7 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

The thing is we can pretty much still do that even with buying Haaland. 150m is our transfer budget and that is it. I think people are giving too much thoughts into this. Haaland coming here is basically far as Roman telling: lets do this or not. Now without FFP we can pretty much do whatever we want.

We need serviceable squad player for CB, someone to replace Zouma but with ball playing ability. For example Romagnoli has one year left on contract and is not regular anymore so Tomori-Romagnoli swap should do it. And we can add Giroud. Varane also one year left on contract, should not be that expensive. Not to mention guys like Sule or Ginter who are 30m max.

If we are after MF all other sales can cover that buy.

Players we have can continue on RWB or we can change formation and we dont need one. 

With the CL win and all the extra commercial/prize money, I think we're ok buying Håland if it is £120m-£130m.) As for CB/CM/RWB, I am not sure all of those are needed or cannot be covered by players on loan (CB - Guehi/Ampadu / RWB - Zappa (he actually played really well towards the end of last season.) 

Also, we have a few players that should raise some dollar without it being too unlikely: 

Zouma - £30m+

Tomori - £25m

Tammy - £35m+

Emerson - £10m (if the club are realistic with the price and not asking for £18m+ as reported.) 

Moses - £4m

Ugbo - £4m

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, King Kante said:

Also, we have a few players that should raise some dollar without it being too unlikely: 

Zouma - £30m+

Tomori - £25m

Tammy - £35m+

Emerson - £10m (if the club are realistic with the price and not asking for £18m+ as reported.) 

Moses - £4m

Ugbo - £4m

Moses and Tomori are gone but aside from those, we still need to actually sell those players. Right now, it's all just talk of prices and no one seems to be making any move.

[R2D2 368]

I don't know what's up with this Dortmund said Haaland is not for sale and won't sold for any price, they said the exact same thing with Dembele and the moment Barca came up with a massive offer a few weeks later, he was gone.

Edited June 8, 2021 by R2D2

[King Kante 1,643]

16 minutes ago, Jas said:

Moses and Tomori are gone but aside from those, we still need to actually sell those players. Right now, it's all just talk of prices and no one seems to be making any move.

To be fair, the window has only just opened. It will take for a few transfers to happen to grease the wheels. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

I don't know what's up with this Dortmund said Haaland is not for sale and won't sold for any price, they said the exact same thing with Dembele and the moment Barca came up with a massive offer a few weeks later, he was gone.

I don't remember what Dortmund said exactly back then but you left out a key part here - Dembele went AWOL, boycotted training etc to force the move.