The Tuchel Thread

[Tomo 21,681]

Looking at our recent schedule combined with our upcoming fixtures we will probably have to heavily rotate in one of the games coming up and give most if not all the nailed on starters a rest.

The way I see it there's one of two games we can do it.

1) We write off this weekend's game against City and throw our eggs into the basket of the last three games where maximum points will be enough for top 4.

or

2) We do it at home to Arsenal next week and cross our fingers the Tuchel factor combined with their mediocrity will be enough.

Which one's best?

[iseah100 5,612]

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

Looking at our recent schedule combined with our upcoming fixtures we will probably have to heavily rotate in one of the games coming up and give most if not all the nailed on starters a rest.

The way I see it there's one of two games we can do it.

1) We write off this weekend's game against City and throw our eggs into the basket of the last three games where maximum points will be enough for top 4.

or

2) We do it at home to Arsenal next week and cross our fingers the Tuchel factor combined with their mediocrity will be enough.

Which one's best?

Wish we could. Top 4 is still up in the air. Can't really mail in the PL nor can we mail in the FA Cup final. Just win out and call it a day. 

[Milan 17,835]

I don't actually mind having all those tough fixtures. It will keep the players at it, if you get my wave. The 'exciting' bubble. The heat of the moment. While City can rest all their players until the Istanbul fixture. And I actually wish, really wish that Pep rests the hell out of them. Something like the Chelsea v Arsenal EL final in Baku. Arsenal players with a long rest, while we decided to play a friendly instead.

[Tomo 21,681]

3 minutes ago, iseah100 said:

Wish we could. Top 4 is still up in the air. Can't really mail in the PL nor can we mail in the FA Cup final. Just win out and call it a day. 

 

Just now, Milan said:

I don't actually mind having all those tough fixtures. It will keep the players at it, if you get my wave. The 'exciting' bubble. The heat of the moment. While City can rest all their players until the Istanbul fixture. And I actually wish, really wish that Pep rests the hell out of them. Something like the Chelsea v Arsenal EL final in Baku. Arsenal players with a long rest, while we decided to play a friendly instead.

Oh it is definitely better overall but with the games coming up i feel there needs to be atleast one we rest the core players or we risk going too close into the Jose 15 run in territory where our players become tanked and ran on fumes.

A CL semi on a Wednesday, Man City Saturday, London derby Wednesday, FA Cup final vs a top 4 rival Saturday plus potential top 4 decider vs the same team Tuesday/Wednesday is a mental schedule and i doubt even Mount will be able to play every minute here.

[iseah100 5,612]

3 minutes ago, Tomo said:

 

Oh it is definitely better overall but with the games coming up i feel there needs to be atleast one we rest the core players or we risk going too close into the Jose 15 run in territory where our players become tanked and ran on fumes.

A CL semi on a Wednesday, Man City Saturday, London derby Wednesday, FA Cup final vs a top 4 rival Saturday plus potential top 4 decider vs the same team Tuesday/Wednesday is a mental schedule and i doubt even Mount will be able to play every minute here.

True enough. Ideally the team would be able to play less crucial players versus Aston Villa as we (ideally) would have won the FA Cup and have 4th locked up. If the boys can beat City and Arsenal, a tough task for sure, then that will solve the problem. Worst case scenario is we need to beat Aston Villa for top 4 and can't rest anyone before the final.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

The detail this man put in the tactics is unbelievable, he is fucking proper.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

By a Spurs fan:

 

Chelsea are the masters of landing on their feet, it's like the opposite of the gypsy curse that seems to haunt us:

>sack AVB and have Di Matteo come in as a caretaker. You're losing the first CL knockout game... LOL nevermind you go on to win it for the first time in your history against Bayern in their own back yard.
>sack Di Matteo because he's actually shit: bring in Benitez as a caretaker manager who wins you the FA Cup and EL.
>Bring in Conte as manager - wins you the Premier League in his first season.
>Bring in Sarri. Wins you the EL in his first season but you sack him regardless.
>Get a transfer ban. Fat Frank comes in, uses this as an opportunity to play your many many youth players and gets you CL qualification.
>Real Madrid throws so much money at you for Hazard (who flops) that you can go on a spending spree.
>Fat Frank is actually shit, and fucks up early enough that you steal a march on anyone else to snap up Tuchel. He guides you to an FA Cup and Cl final within months (watch this space).

No matter how bad things look short term, the spawny cunts will always come up smelling of roses. God hates Spurs.

[NikkiCFC 7,595]

Not counting WBA we conceded 5 goals in 23 games under Tuchel.

Rudi own goal, against Southampton because Zouma played in the middle, Benzema after corner and Palace plus Porto after crosses. Definitely our best defense in 15 years. When you have defense like this everything else is easier to do.

I feel putting Chris in the back 3 with Silva and Rudi improved us even further with Azpi as RWB. With this defense only Benzema scored after corner.

Our level drops with Zouma so Kurt and Tomori both should be sold this summer. Get one top CB, Varane is available so we would have 4 of them competing for 3 spots plus Azpi as 5th guy there. But even if we get Varane it would be hard for him to be a starter but with Silva ageing we need for rotation anyway.

[Syltherin 25]

There have been reports that Tuchel is planning a formation change in the summer. Personally, I think it's not necessary. Why fix what's not broken. We can keep the shape and just buy a versatile creative midfielder like Grealish and a prolific striker. That should be enough.

If we change to back four, we may need to sign a new center-back, sitting midfielder, creative midfielder and a striker. I repeat, that's not necessary. This team is built for this shape.

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

hace 25 minutos, Syltherin dijo:

There have been reports that Tuchel is planning a formation change in the summer. Personally, I think it's not necessary. Why fix what's not broken. We can keep the shape and just buy a versatile creative midfielder like Grealish and a prolific striker. That should be enough.

If we change to back four, we may need to sign a new center-back, sitting midfielder, creative midfielder and a striker. I repeat, that's not necessary. This team is built for this shape.

Seen something that he is considering a 442 of sorts and hasn’t ruled out 433 or 4231 also.

But I do agree re dont fix what isn’t broken, this 343, I still think we are probably much better playing it and much much closer to competing for trophies with it as opposed to going to a back 4 with whatever in front of it and in attack. It just suits the squad more.

I think 3/4 quality additions in a few areas the summer with this squad already as well - as young guys like Mount, James, Hudson-Odoi, Havertz, Pulisic, being another season better off, guys like Christensen, Werner (if he isnt as bad as large parts of this season again), Ziyech (again like Werner, if he isnt as bad as large parts of this season), Rudiger, Kovacic also being in the 25-28 age bracket which is generally when players come in and around/reach their best/better/peak years - with this formation and manager, we will be better placed to challenge City than most next season. I just have a feeling.

I mean we still have a lot to play for this season and could end up winning a double. Which will show people that this shape is the way to keep going with, absolutely. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Tomo 21,681]

5 hours ago, Syltherin said:

There have been reports that Tuchel is planning a formation change in the summer. Personally, I think it's not necessary. Why fix what's not broken. We can keep the shape and just buy a versatile creative midfielder like Grealish and a prolific striker. That should be enough.

If we change to back four, we may need to sign a new center-back, sitting midfielder, creative midfielder and a striker. I repeat, that's not necessary. This team is built for this shape.

Don't fix what ain't broken is the wrong way to think in football, it leads to the kind of stagnation we saw under Ancelotti and Conte.

Tuchel is known to change formations regularly in a season this is the first time he's really stuck to one for any significant length of time, so we could feasibly keep this up in the big games where it's working but do something else against the lesser sides. For all the incredible things he's done we have dropped a lot of points against teams we should be beating under TT and if we want to compete with Pep over a league season we really need to fix that.

[NikkiCFC 7,595]

100 days in job. Did more than Biden 👍

[Jase 43,479]

44 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Don't fix what ain't broken is the wrong way to think in football, it leads to the kind of stagnation we saw under Ancelotti and Conte.

Tuchel is known to change formations regularly in a season this is the first time he's really stuck to one for any significant length of time, so we could feasibly keep this up in the big games where it's working but do something else against the lesser sides. For all the incredible things he's done we have dropped a lot of points against teams we should be beating under TT and if we want to compete with Pep over a league season we really need to fix that.

I do think that Tuchel will play or try out the back 4 at some point but am not too sure if it is wise to constantly change formation in the Premier League, if his past is anything to go by. It may have worked in the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 for him but highly doubt it will work in England. I remember Guardiola used to tinker a lot with the formation when he first came to the Premier League but then he eventually stopped doing it because it was hard to get any consistency going.

To be fair to Tuchel, although we have stuck with the back 3, he has made small tactical tweaks along the way. We have played 3-4-2-1, 3-4-1-2, 3-4-3 and more recently 3-1-4-2. He has also made us play less of the nonsense slow, possession football and play a more direct style (not route one football).

Regarding Ancelotti, think the biggest issue with his second season was the squad. We let players go and did not buy new ones to refresh the squad. They were almost on their last legs, as proven in the 2011/12. That squad was also wedded to only thrive in 4-3-3, although I remember Ancelotti did switch to 4-4-2 in the second half of that season to get us out of the slump.

As for Conte, he did try to change to the 3-5-2 but think he was too rigid with the way how he wanted to implement it. 

[Magic Lamps 11,452]

1 hour ago, Jas said:

I do think that Tuchel will play or try out the back 4 at some point but am not too sure if it is wise to constantly change formation in the Premier League, if his past is anything to go by. It may have worked in the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 for him but highly doubt it will work in England. I remember Guardiola used to tinker a lot with the formation when he first came to the Premier League but then he eventually stopped doing it because it was hard to get any consistency going.

To be fair to Tuchel, although we have stuck with the back 3, he has made small tactical tweaks along the way. We have played 3-4-2-1, 3-4-1-2, 3-4-3 and more recently 3-1-4-2. He has also made us play less of the nonsense slow, possession football and play a more direct style (not route one football).

Regarding Ancelotti, think the biggest issue with his second season was the squad. We let players go and did not buy new ones to refresh the squad. They were almost on their last legs, as proven in the 2011/12. That squad was also wedded to only thrive in 4-3-3, although I remember Ancelotti did switch to 4-4-2 in the second half of that season to get us out of the slump.

As for Conte, he did try to change to the 3-5-2 but think he was too rigid with the way how he wanted to implement it. 

Not sure how the tactical tweaks TT implemented so far can really be called a formation change. You are right about the change of passing speed and style tho.

What i noticed is how he has encouraged our quick CBs to bomb forward through the lines to carry the ball. Maybe it is just me but I think it is great to watch. Maybe he got that trick off Chris Wilder but Rüdiger running through midfield with his absurd pace is a sight  to behold. Possibly this is the future and a way to make a back 3 system more attacking, have offensively skilled players as CBs and use them to start attacks or even take shots.

As for Ancelotti 2nd season i thought we were unlcuky not to still win the league. The squad was old and unnecessarily thin but not finished. Lampard and Drogba both were still majestic, came off their highest scoring seasons and would have carried us to another league title if it had not been for stupid injuries and malaria. I think we actually rushed the rebuild there letting go both Deco and Ballack one year too early and only buying Ramires. Heck we once played with a Zhirkov-Ramires-Mikel midfield with Paulo Ferreira filling in in left back. damn that was painful and ended in disaster. Still we finished only like 4 points off and could have won it if we had won at OT and Goodison park in the final weeks. Obviously we lost the league in winter were we encurred a 13 point gap to Manure. Overall, you are probably right. The chance to properly reinforce and replace the Old Guard was the 2010/2011 window.

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Not sure how the tactical tweaks TT implemented so far can really be called a formation change. You are right about the change of passing speed and style tho.

Whatever you want to call it, at least Tuchel hasn't stuck with just the same, one formation like Sarri did with his 4-3-3 in every game, even when it's not working. Tuchel is constantly looking for options, solutions and/or variations. It's probably the first time since Mourinho 1.0 that we have had such a flexible manager in charge. 

2 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

What i noticed is how he has encouraged our quick CBs to bomb forward through the lines to carry the ball. Maybe it is just me but I think it is great to watch. Maybe he got that trick off Chris Wilder but Rüdiger running through midfield with his absurd pace is a sight  to behold. Possibly this is the future and a way to make a back 3 system more attacking, have offensively skilled players as CBs and use them to start attacks or even take shots.

Isn't it similar to what Conte did with Azpi in his back 3 system? He had a lot of joy setting up goals for Morata back then. 

[Spike 12,049]

15 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Not counting WBA we conceded 5 goals in 23 games under Tuchel.

Rudi own goal, against Southampton because Zouma played in the middle, Benzema after corner and Palace plus Porto after crosses. Definitely our best defense in 15 years. When you have defense like this everything else is easier to do.

I feel putting Chris in the back 3 with Silva and Rudi improved us even further with Azpi as RWB. With this defense only Benzema scored after corner.

Our level drops with Zouma so Kurt and Tomori both should be sold this summer. Get one top CB, Varane is available so we would have 4 of them competing for 3 spots plus Azpi as 5th guy there. But even if we get Varane it would be hard for him to be a starter but with Silva ageing we need for rotation anyway.

Varane is prone to absolute meltdowns. No thanks. He wouldn't be available if he was as talented as his hype suggested.

[MoroccanBlue 5,200]

Thought Varane was awful against us as well. Not been too impressed with him the past couple years. 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

6 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Thought Varane was awful against us as well. Not been too impressed with him the past couple years. 

Varane has been awful without Ramos beside him.