The Tuchel Thread

[Superblue 6,331]

2 hours ago, chippy said:

The sacking of. Frank has proved once and for all there will never be a "project" under RA.

Like every manager before him, TT will have to consistently win trophies, or be sacked.

If TT wins the CL it will put enormous pressure on him to win the league or retain the CL next season. Anything less and hell be judged the same way Carlo was after his second season.

Should give managers more time but we don't and won't, so we just have to get on with it.

I'd agree regarding the project idea but I don't think the demands are as great as they were at the club 8 - 10 years ago.

I think as long as the club are still trending upwards rather than free-falling, and there are no issues or controversy between board and manager, I think there is a greater patience now.

For example if we came top 4 next season but were much closer to first place, I don't believe that would cost Tuchel his job.

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, chippy said:

The sacking of. Frank has proved once and for all there will never be a "project" under RA.

Like every manager before him, TT will have to consistently win trophies, or be sacked.

If TT wins the CL it will put enormous pressure on him to win the league or retain the CL next season. Anything less and hell be judged the same way Carlo was after his second season.

Should give managers more time but we don't and won't, so we just have to get on with it.

Yes, we still want to win trophies (and we haven't won anything yet) but given the profile of the current squad, there has to be progress and improvement. This isn't a ready made squad like 11-12 years ago.

The problem with Lampard was that there was no progress made during his 18 months in charge. Yes, we had that long unbeaten run earlier this season but by the end of his reign, it became obvious that the problems we saw last season were still there. There was no clear playing style and tactical idea, the pressing was all over the place, the team kept conceding on the break, he didn't seem to have any idea how to use the new players effectively and among others. We were either good or hopelessly bad. There was no middle ground. And this after spending more than 200 million on players in the summer. 

In less than 4 months, Tuchel has not only turned those weaknesses into strengths, he has also made progress with the team, collectively and individually. Plus, he has also made better use of the resources at hand. Yes, there are some deadwoods in the squad that we would likely sell (e.g. Emerson) but he has kept everyone on side and helped form what seemed to be tight-knit group among the players. Notice how the players seem to be mentioning the word "team" a lot these days. Obviously, the club will judge Tuchel on trophies but at the very least, he has put us on the right track again.

[MoroccanBlue 5,194]

We'd be 10th and knocked out of all competitions had we continued with Lampard. I'm glad Roman and co are not on board with managerial 'projects'. Especially with inexperienced managers. We'd be in a similar position Arsenal find themselves in.

The 'project' the club is striving for is becoming more sustainable. Fairly certain if we win both the FA Cup and Champions league this season, and go on not to win the league next season, Tuchel's job won't be on the line should we still see signs of progression and sustainability. Ancelotti wasn't sacked for not winning the league. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by MoroccanBlue

[NikkiCFC 7,565]

31 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

We'd be 10th and knocked out of all competitions had we continued with Lampard. 

There was something amateurish about Frank and his team. Him laughing on the bench in important moments not to mention his first assistant is alcoholic... 

 

33 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Ancelotti wasn't sacked for not winning the league. 

But for not winning CL... 

[MoroccanBlue 5,194]

10 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

But for not winning CL... 

Neither that. It was evident he was relying on the experience of our veteran players to get us out of slumps vs any tactical changes from him. He received the same criticism at Real, PSG, and Bayern, When the going gets tough, its stays that way under him. 

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

hace 15 minutos, NikkiCFC dijo:

There was something amateurish about Frank and his team. Him laughing on the bench in important moments not to mention his first assistant is alcoholic... 

 

But for not winning CL... 

Are retired players not allowed to drink? Or you making stories up? Never heard that one before, if your talking about Jody Morris that is. 

I think some people forget that the majority of these guys spend 20 yesrs playing a high competitive sport which means they dont get the same freedom to do what they want or go to the pub with their mates or family or whatever like us regular folks do. Yes they get the money and whatever else but its a big exchange for a lot of sacrifices also. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[NikkiCFC 7,565]

 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

Instant impact......about fucking time we started winning at big 6, convincingly.

[NikkiCFC 7,565]

11 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Instant impact......about fucking time we started winning at big 6, convincingly.

Not sure how much no fans played part.

[DDA 9,570]

If we don't manage to win either The FA Cup or CL.. I fear TT Wil be axed but I really hope not. He is obviously a great manager and there isnt many more to chose from out there who we haven't had already bar Byerns coach who is leaving at the end of the season.

[BlueGuy 10]

For me, TT should't be sacked though he should lose  every single game from now until the end of the season, CL and Fa Cup including.

[Tomo 21,681]

8 hours ago, chippy said:

The sacking of. Frank has proved once and for all there will never be a "project" under RA.

Like every manager before him, TT will have to consistently win trophies, or be sacked.

If TT wins the CL it will put enormous pressure on him to win the league or retain the CL next season. Anything less and hell be judged the same way Carlo was after his second season.

Should give managers more time but we don't and won't, so we just have to get on with it.

The sacking of Frank happened because there's levels as to what's acceptable even during rebuilds. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Tomo

[milka 3,306]

 

[chippy 342]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

The sacking of Frank happened because there's levels as to what's acceptable even during rebuilds. 

True, but RA knew he was hiring a very inexperienced manager with a lot to learn. You should either accept a young manager will have tough times and stick by them, or not hire one in the first place. 

Yes, I fully accept that Frank might well have not turned things around, but I still think he should have been given until the end of this season.

Anyway, that's all history now, so onwards and hopefully upwards with TT.

[gdlk 262]

I cant believe theres people still moaning for FL sacking.. And we are 3rd and on 2 finals! 

[NikkiCFC 7,565]

10 hours ago, chippy said:

The sacking of. Frank has proved once and for all there will never be a "project" under RA.

Tbh he is the last person who should be given time to build project. No improvements in 18 months here. Our defense was shit in 2019 with Frank but also in 2021.

I think Sarri would do great job if he stayed 3 or 4 years here...

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

hace 34 minutos, chippy dijo:

True, but RA knew he was hiring a very inexperienced manager with a lot to learn. You should either accept a young manager will have tough times and stick by them, or not hire one in the first place. 

Yes, I fully accept that Frank might well have not turned things around, but I still think he should have been given until the end of this season.

Anyway, that's all history now, so onwards and hopefully upwards with TT.

Disagree completely.

Why give someone out of their depth who had us sitting like 8th and looking progressively worse than we did the previous season, after spending 250 mil on players who were significantly better than what we had the season beforehand more time? Just to make us even worse? The players weren’t particularly happy either with the lack of tactical instructions or high level of training as well as his inability to react in games before it was too late as well as blaming players and taking no responsibility with if various sources are to be believed. Plus there was tension between him and the club after a poor January and his insistence on a big money move for Declan Rice after spending near 300m with 0 obvious signs of improvement.

Just look at his mentality regarding us as well how many times did he say “we aren’t title challengers” this season when people were talking us up based on our squad whicu is the second best in the PL for depth effectively? Look at the difference in the group now we have someone who is willing to say we can win this and this or that. Or even when we go a goal down the reaction is night and day.  Tuchels already effectively said we can win the CL after beating City twice and he wants to be a title challenger next season.

We would of been lucky to close the gap as it was at that stage in the season with Frank, probably, ok no probaly about it, 100% would be out of the CL and FA cup as well as nowhere near top 4. We would of been where Arsenal or Spurs were/are, who kept/have retained their managers too long and look how thats worked for them. 

This giving managers more than 18 months time is a thing of the past if things aren’t going well at most clubs in Europe who want to be successful, yet alone without considering our track record for it with bigger and better managers.

I dont see how anyone could see how Lampard could have achieved half of what Tuchel has done since January. Obviously his legacy as a player will always be held in the highest esteem here but as a manager he had 2 runs where we went unbeaten in the 18 months he was here and that was it. Finishing 4th with our squad last season was celebrated as a major major success by many outside of the club in the media because it was Frank and we lost Hazard but I still think its no less than what anyone worth their salt should have achieved (Allegri, Sarri, whoever we could have got of a reasonable level) and we also should of finished above United considering we had a 12 point cushion after the first 4 or 5 months of that season and blew it almost going to the last game or two. 

I am baffled that anyone thinks he should have been given more time. 

[Tomo 21,681]

1 hour ago, chippy said:

True, but RA knew he was hiring a very inexperienced manager with a lot to learn. You should either accept a young manager will have tough times and stick by them, or not hire one in the first place. 

But that already feeds in to what I was saying. There was always going to be an element of learning on the job but there's a difference between raw promise and the tactical cluster fuck we saw in those last two months.

I think he did a very good job in season one and I would debate anyone on that but it was pretty clear he just didn't have it in for him for the next phase of the process, he was so wildly undercoaching our top talent.