The Tuchel Thread

[!Hazard! 3,394]

Absolute perfection how he setup us yesterday.

[Magic Lamps 11,446]

8 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Ok this season, he came mid season, we have a chance for success in 3 comps but for next season board should demand less pragmatism. He is really, really pragmatic coach. 

In Dortmund pressure is low, they have their style of play for decades so he was also like this. But when results are much more important and trophies are expected he turns into this.

It was like this in PSG in important games. For example, quarter final of CL against Atalanta he played with: Navas, Kehrer, Silva, Kimpembe, Bernat, Marquinhos, Gueye, Herrera, Sarabia, Icardi, Neymar.

So 4-3-3 where RB is someone who is more CB, CB on DM plus 2 DMs in Gueye and Herrera. Sarabia also someone who played more as AM in Spain. Only after he made offensive changes with Mbappe, Moting, Draxler and Paredes they won the game with 2 late goals. Very often he played with 3 DMs so basically all cards are on Mbappe and Neymar. But we dont have them. Now in Chelsea he almost always puts lineup where you just do not expect us to score more than once. Defensive wing backs, midfielders who never do anything in the final 3rd... Today we had like 2 offensive players. He needs to change this next season so we always have at least 4 or 5 offensive players like City or Liverpool with very offensive full backs. 

I am completely fine with his level pragmatism. we are hardly operating Pulis style hoofing the ball around. We play out a cultivated football from the back and generally have most of posession. Ppl are getting a bit over the top of it. We should not be expecting every team with half decent player to play like prime barcelon in modern football.

Because we suck at converting our chances we score few goals and that is why ppl tend to say we are pragmatic when indeed we carve teams like City, Real and Atletico open at will. It is not really that important what system we play and which players he picks.What matters is how we operate. In general we do start a lot of attacks, our wing backs push up high and we generally attack in numbers, not like psg or real who only attack with 3 players. Most of our offensive players are just very limited and still not work very well together in a team. It is not only pragmatism that is our problem but lack of creativity in the final 3rd, bad decision making, lack of team movement and in the end lack of quality.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Magic Lamps

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

10 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Ok this season, he came mid season, we have a chance for success in 3 comps but for next season board should demand less pragmatism. He is really, really pragmatic coach. 

In Dortmund pressure is low, they have their style of play for decades so he was also like this. But when results are much more important and trophies are expected he turns into this.

It was like this in PSG in important games. For example, quarter final of CL against Atalanta he played with: Navas, Kehrer, Silva, Kimpembe, Bernat, Marquinhos, Gueye, Herrera, Sarabia, Icardi, Neymar.

So 4-3-3 where RB is someone who is more CB, CB on DM plus 2 DMs in Gueye and Herrera. Sarabia also someone who played more as AM in Spain. Only after he made offensive changes with Mbappe, Moting, Draxler and Paredes they won the game with 2 late goals. Very often he played with 3 DMs so basically all cards are on Mbappe and Neymar. But we dont have them. Now in Chelsea he almost always puts lineup where you just do not expect us to score more than once. Defensive wing backs, midfielders who never do anything in the final 3rd... Today we had like 2 offensive players. He needs to change this next season so we always have at least 4 or 5 offensive players like City or Liverpool with very offensive full backs. 

Mainz and Dortmund was the only time that one of his teams have played this gunho football your expecting but also his first two teams as a coach.

At Mainz they were very much in the mould which Dortmund were but of a lower quality with the same defensive instability, conceding a lot of goals. Its clear hes wanted his teams to tighten up, the structure is better here and was better at Paris, hes clearly evolved as a manager but this notion that he is playing pragmatic football baffles me. We don’t sit with 11 men behind the ball grinding teams down. We press, win the ball back, are the team that is looking to make things happen with the ball. If we took 2/3 chances last night  you wouldn’t be complaining or saying about being pragmatic. Or if we were more productive in the final third in several games with him. It was a European away game as well, that way we played is the best way to be I would say in these sort of ties, we didn’t go and open ourselves up a lot and we were very solid in top of having the best chances. Honestly what more do you want? Swear your complaining for the sakes of it.

I remember that PSG game, Neymar missed about 3 sitters and again PSG dominated the ball. Hardly defensive, just because they didnt score the two goals to the 90th minute. Honestly do some research instead of plastering wild accusations based on a line up 😂 If you seen the game or the highlights you’ll see PSG did more or less everything but score until they did score in the 90th min & stoppage time.

And only like 2 offensive players? I swear your over exaggerating and its only succeeding in making you look daft. 

I will make a prediction now. With the right signings in the summer, I think we will be the closest team to challenge Man City next season. 

[milka 3,306]

I can see  these scenes   next month in  Istanbul 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by milka

[NikkiCFC 7,565]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Mainz and Dortmund was the only time that one of his teams have played this gunho football your expecting but also his first two teams as a coach.

At Mainz they were very much in the mould which Dortmund were but of a lower quality with the same defensive instability, conceding a lot of goals. Its clear hes wanted his teams to tighten up, the structure is better here and was better at Paris, hes clearly evolved as a manager but this notion that he is playing pragmatic football baffles me. We don’t sit with 11 men behind the ball grinding teams down. We press, win the ball back, are the team that is looking to make things happen with the ball. If we took 2/3 chances last night  you wouldn’t be complaining or saying about being pragmatic. Or if we were more productive in the final third in several games with him. It was a European away game as well, that way we played is the best way to be I would say in these sort of ties, we didn’t go and open ourselves up a lot and we were very solid in top of having the best chances. Honestly what more do you want? Swear your complaining for the sakes of it.

I remember that PSG game, Neymar missed about 3 sitters and again PSG dominated the ball. Hardly defensive, just because they didnt score the two goals to the 90th minute. Honestly do some research instead of plastering wild accusations based on a line up 😂 If you seen the game or the highlights you’ll see PSG did more or less everything but score until they did score in the 90th min & stoppage time.

And only like 2 offensive players? I swear your over exaggerating and its only succeeding in making you look daft. 

I will make a prediction now. With the right signings in the summer, I think we will be the closest team to challenge Man City next season. 

When you play 3 DMs you are pragmatic? Conte played more offensive wing backs. I am not complaining, I said I am OK with playing like this, this season. But next season I would like more progressive football. Do you count Azpi or Chilwell as offensive players? I am sure no but if we go with CHO and Alonso it is different song. He clearly choose first two because of defensive game. Do you expect Kova, Jorginho or Kante to do something in the final 3rd? When I say 2 offensive players I mean we have 9 players on the pitch who are not likely to score. 

For example look what Poch did in PSG. Neymar is AM in 4231. Mbappe and Di Maria wingers and Kean /Icardi striker. Florenzi is offensive right back. Parades is playing regularly. This is way more offensive than what Tuchel used there. I like Tuchel, amazing coach. 

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

3 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

When you play 3 DMs you are pragmatic? Conte played more offensive wing backs. I am not complaining, I said I am OK with playing like this, this season. But next season I would like more progressive football. Do you count Azpi or Chilwell as offensive players? I am sure no but if we go with CHO and Alonso it is different song. He clearly choose first two because of defensive game. Do you expect Kova, Jorginho or Kante to do something in the final 3rd? When I say 2 offensive players I mean we have 9 players on the pitch who are not likely to score. 

For example look what Poch did in PSG. Neymar is AM in 4231. Mbappe and Di Maria wingers and Kean /Icardi striker. Florenzi is offensive right back. Parades is playing regularly. This is way more offensive than what Tuchel used there. I like Tuchel, amazing coach. 

Not necessarily, would be like saying Pep not plying a CF makes him pragmatic though. It depends on the context and how the team approaches the game hugely. Being pragmatic is more than just selection of players, its about how the team approaches the game. Pep played Javi Martinez as a false 10 at Bayern a certain amount of times, particularly one that stands out was v Dortmund in a 3-0 win. Did that make Pep or Bayern pragmatic? No. Playing a back 3 with wingbacks has both offensive and defensive quality. Look at how they stretch the game, we always have the spare man out wide. Was same with Conte.

I agree CHO gives more on the right maybe than James and Azpi offensively but wouldn’t go to say that we were pragmatic v Real. We went for the throat the first half an hour and should have been out of sight. No pragmatism there for me. 

Also on Jorgi and Kante both are not purely defensive midfielders, yes Kante isnt Kevin de Bruyne but he does contribute in the other half for sure. The amount of dribbles and break aways he does for this team is huge, but no one mentions it. Its only tackles or giving the ball away. Mateo Kovacic carries the ball well also up the pitch which is hardly a defensive action. I am not expecting them to turn into Messi and set up 3 goals in a game or whatever but there are attacking players and two wingbacks who should be trying to arrive and make the difference in the final third at times.

Maybe Pochettino’s line up is more offensive than Tuchel’s on paper but you have to remember, PSG scored 337 goals under Tuchel. That was in 127 games that is 2.65 goals per game on average. If we had a fit and firing CF and Werner wasnt scared of scoring we would have at least another 7-10 goals under Tuchel at least. This team is unfortunately short in some areas. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Again another good presser today, he is quality mate. Very easy to see how much he already loves it at Chels and he is proud to be here.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Atomiswave

[milka 3,306]

 

Tommy  Tuchel watching the #CFCDev team in PL2 action this evening.

 

[Nero 1,794]

I love his engagement 

[milka 3,306]

Madness  

 

[Jase 43,479]

Was on BBC...

Chelsea boss Thomas Tuchel has kept more clean sheets (11) than any other manager in Premier League history from their first 15 games in charge in the competition.

[milka 3,306]

 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

15 minutes ago, milka said:

 

Nice, very nice Chels

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Reporter: Will you play the same players and system for wednesday as you did in the first leg TT?

TT: Zinedin Zidane in your office right now?

 

[Jase 43,479]

It's "amusing" that Tuchel gets asked about the strikers or lack of goals etc in almost every presser but Guardiola doesn't get about that, even though both us and City are in a similar boat, if not the same, in the department. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,194]

16 minutes ago, Jas said:

It's "amusing" that Tuchel gets asked about the strikers or lack of goals etc in almost every presser but Guardiola doesn't get about that, even though both us and City are in a similar boat, if not the same, in the department. 

Probably because City/Pep aren't 16th in chances converted. 

[Jase 43,479]

17 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Probably because City/Pep aren't 16th in chances converted. 

True but our striker situation isn't really different to theirs but because others in City's squad are scoring the goals (not that they score 3, 4, 5 goals per game anyway), no one is asking Guardiola about it while with us, the media are only focusing on the striker even though the rest aren't exactly scoring regularly. It's also a similar case with Liverpool, where only 1 of their front 3 is seemingly still working.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

hace 10 horas, milka dijo:

 

Why do it/start talks before the CL tie? Seems odd. Not opposing it but he has enough on his mind to think about potentially getting us to a 2nd cup final. 

Do the contract in the summer. He deserves it yes but don’t take his mind off preparing the team for the game..

We already arguably seen some of the effects of the upcoming game as it was in the match with Fulham, where a lot of the boys looked elsewhere at times so talking contracts etc with the manager when we still have a lot to play for, let the guy do the job fully focused on the football things just now.

Edited May 5, 2021 by OneMoSalah