The Mourinho Thread

[Amblève. 4,995]

Where is that money in Mourinho era? Because we spent less money than Manchester United, Manchester City and Arsenal in the last 2 seasons (the difference between what we bought and our sells)... and we are not only the team with the best evolution but also the best team in the country.

You can moan what you want, but this is the reality.

Why do only the last 2 seasons matter? Excuse me Mourinho was given a full squad instead of only 2 or 3 players. The mere reason we haven't spent much money during Mou's second time here is because we have had good enough players already in the team before Mou arrived that we then sold to make money and room for "Mou players".

[zolayes 14,489]

It will take something drastic like an abramovich intervention, giving him a mandate to play the sort of football that is befitting a team of our status and resources. And even then, im honestly not sure jose is capable of it. Some People fail to realise that any idiot can play/coach disjointed,poorly rehearsed, lacklustre gungho football but only select few managers are actually capable of coaching well cordinated, precise,creative attacking football consistently and then have the conviction to stick to it and perfect it.

Even if jose wins the champions league and is given a mandate to change his approach, im not so sure he's capable of going toe to toe with the big teams in the big games playing high quality attacking football

And even if by surprise, he's able to deliver such football, the moment it goes wrong or appears to not be going according to plan his natural instinct will kick in and he will revert to his comfort zone anyway. Either way, the sort of football people are demanding isn't going to happen under jose.

SAD but true I think

[Rom2013 446]

Why do only the last 2 seasons matter? Excuse me Mourinho was given a full squad instead of only 2 or 3 players. The mere reason we haven't spent much money during Mou's second time here is because we have had good enough players already in the team before Mou arrived that we then sold to make money and room for "Mou players".

By good enough players you mean a team that was a complete disgrace and couldn't win or play properly against anyone, right?

The Arsenal of that time, but not only a team that couldn't compete it was also a team that played horribly.

And by the way, we needed to sell polayers not only because the team was really bad, but also because the club wouldn't pass the FFP without selling players.

The club hadn't the financial balance, the financial power, we had an horrible team that was fighting for nothing. Today you have the best team in the country spending for example less 200M£ in this time than Manchester United.

If you had another Benitez (or other coaches) you would be here with Mata, Luiz, and celebrating the CHampions League spot and saying how great is the evolution of this team... maybe next season we could fight for something.

[Tomo 21,751]

Why do only the last 2 seasons matter? Excuse me Mourinho was given a full squad instead of only 2 or 3 players. The mere reason we haven't spent much money during Mou's second time here is because we have had good enough players already in the team before Mou arrived that we then sold to make money and room for "Mou players".

We had an absolute unbalanced mess off a squad when Mou returned, no top class CM, no top class striker, Terry looking like he was past it, attacking midfield we had Mata who was great but since has been proved he isn't top top bracket, Hazard who is but was really young infact bar Cech we had not one top bracket player anywhere near the prime, infact the more I look back at that squad the more I think Rafa performed a minor miracle getting us 3rd and EL.

Jose with a £36m net spend has turned that unbalanced mess (£9m per transfer window for perspective) into genuine title contenders, the fact that there is a general reluctance to credit him for that is quite frankly mind blowing.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,058]

First off it's the managers responsibility and duty to recognise and fix the inadequacies of his team and he's had two full seasons to do so that's after making empty and boastful promises of seeking to play more attacking football. He even said we have no other choice but to play attacking football due to the type and profile of players we have which contradicts your point and his actions so far.

Now how did riijkard and guardiola barca manage to play highline and free flowing football with puyol (jt lite) as the main CB. Mertasacker and koscienly are no quicker or more suitable to playing highline than jt and cahill/zouma. Fernando hiero and riofor madrid and utd respectively werent exactly pacy either. The way I see it, your argument is just a load of excuses.

our squad is sufficient enough to play better football than we have done thos season and if jose was a manager capable of playing such football, he would have found a way

I think you are wrong about this. Badly wrong, if you'll forgive me for saying so.

Firstly, although it hardly needs saying, let's put an obvious truth front and centre of the discussion. It's not just a matter of playing an attack minded, high pressing, high line, game. Any team and any manager can do that whenever they want. Arsenal, with a collection of highly technical players, did exactly that at Stamford Bridge, Anfield and The Etihad last season. 17-4. Great work Arsene. The trick of course is to be successful playing that way. It's a heck of a trick however and it requires very good players but more on that in a moment.

I hope I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth when I say that Wenger is not alone, we at Chelsea also crave beautiful, attacking football. I have no argument with you about that but I judge the current squad as being unable to deliver that while also winning enough matches. There were no Arsenal fans crowing about pretty football after those three humiliations last season, and who can blame them? We all want beautiful wins but we'll all accept ugly ones in preference to ugly defeats.

I think the key difference between you and me is that, while you've made it clear that you think our squad can win by playing the way you describe, I do not. Barcelona can but they would not even consider offering a squad place to any of Willian, Oscar, Costa, Cuadrado, Ramires, Mikel or Ivanovic. Players who, between them, will make hundreds of appearances for us this season. Some of our other outfield players might be considered for squad places in Barcelona but I doubt any, not even Eden, would be first choice. Certainly not Cesc for example.

Barcelona have been the ultimate example of how good a pressing team can be but the first lesson to take from their example is the quality of players required to succeed that way. Forget their defenders, that's not how Barca defend. They recover the ball high and they are exceptionally good at retaining it once they have. That's because they have a critical mass of players who can receive a pass, even a bad one, in tight situations and do something positive with it. We don't.

I think it is unrealistic of you to expect that the appalling squad of June 2013 can have been completely overhauled in 21 months. You may disagree but my own opinion in 2013 was that we were 8 quality players short of what was required to make Chelsea the side we'd all like them to be. If that number was right, and I think it was, it meant finding a lot of players with the right quality, the right age, the right work permit qualifications, the right FFP costs, and the right availability to Chelsea.

That kind of recruitment is very difficult but you are right to say that it should not be beyond a club with our resources. Thing is, a club with our resources should never have been in the mess Jose inherited on his return. He has my confidence that he'll fix the mess but if we are still in the same position four transfer windows from now things will be different. For now however, I believe that realistic progress is being made.

[The Chels 2,502]

Unless next season I am proven wrong, the only reason why we don't play such flowing football is because the players in some positions are inadequate for what we need, at least now. For example, we need a high line to play offensive football, and against bigger sides that press us that becomes a problem, which is why we retreat, imo. Our youngest lineup possible is passable but firstly he never plays Azpi and Luis together, and Ivanovic causes severe weaknesses on our defence, especially when it's Cahill who is exposed. (Azpi-Zouma-Terry-Luis) and to fix this we need a new fullback to act as second choice to Azpi/Luis and a fast centre back to pair with Zouma against such sides.

We have within our squad the ability to change the defence such that we are capable of playing a more proactive defensive game (as you say: Azpi, Zouma, Terry, Luis) but Jose hasn't suggested that he is interested in making these changes. If he did then we'd be lining up with more mobile defenders who are more compatible with a high-intensity pressing game but ultimately he has shown clear preference to the current defence even though it is very limiting in the big games especially, perhaps because it gives him an excuse to play the reactive, passive football he craves.

Barcelona have been the ultimate example of how good a pressing team can be but the first lesson to take from their example is the quality of players required to succeed that way. Forget their defenders, that's not how Barca defend. They recover the ball high and they are exceptionally good at retaining it once they have. That's because they have a critical mass of players who can receive a pass, even a bad one, in tight situations and do something positive with it. We don't.

Sure Barcelona are a team with technically excellent players all-round but you don't need that to play a pressing game successfully as the likes of Leverkusen and Atletico have shown.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

I think we can all agree Jose has been over-conservative in a lot of our big matches this season. If we manage to win the league,hopefully a lot of the pressure will be off his shoulders. I hope he will know exactly what to do in the summer transfer window to increase the team's flexibility in terms of playing different styles at different stages of the game.

Koke - Will allow us to keep the ball and also have an eye for goal when the team is ahead. Him being a very complete player gives us a huge advantage in these situations.

Varane - Cahill has been a disgrace this season and loses it when the slightest things go against him. Varane will be our present and our future alongside Zouma.

Kondogbia - We really can't expect Fabregas to be battling it out in midfield. If the team is under huge pressure and we need more defensive qualities on the pitch, Kondogbia is our answer. Positionally very good unlike Ramires and Mikel and attacking wise he good as well. Other option: Khedira.

Icardi/Dybala - I feel the need for another striker because Drogba doesn't seem to cut it anymore. Most of top teams have more than 1 world class strikere and although these two are not world class, they have a huge potential to be so. Also I really can't find a striker who is willing to sit on the bench.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,058]

We have within our squad the ability to change the defence such that we are capable of playing a more proactive defensive game (as you say: Azpi, Zouma, Terry, Luis) but Jose hasn't suggested that he is interested in making these changes. If he did then we'd be lining up with more mobile defenders who are more compatible with a high-intensity pressing game but ultimately he has shown clear preference to the current defence even though it is very limiting in the big games especially, perhaps because it gives him an excuse to play the reactive football he craves.

Sure Barcelona are a team with technically excellent players all-round but you don't need that to play a pressing game successfully as the likes of Leverkusen and Atletico have shown.

Atleti are an excellent team, packed with outstanding players. Leverkausen have won what since 2002 and what in the ten years before that?

I suppose the word successfully can be defined in different ways. At Chelsea I think it defines winning trophies. It's up to Bayer fans and officials to decide what success means to them.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Some excellent points raised here - without bashing and insults - it's like the old TC

So I'm as frustrated as anybody with the team - we started the season playing expansive attacking football and sure there was a need to tighten defensively (5-3 Everton) - but it seems that we have tightened too much and the emphasis is massively skewed to defence instead of attack

Now - I am delighted we are consistently winning and believe the mental aspect of the game is growing within our team, plenty of results this year have gone for us, wheras previously we would have lost, or drew.

The fact that we assembled a great team on a modest budget, whilst complying with FFP is to be applauded, however it's clear to see our small stadium is REALLY punishing us compared to the teams around us in the EPL and massively restricting us in Europe. Therefore, until that is addressed it's unlikely we will be able to spend at the rate of UTD.

Our squad is much better now - this is the result of managerial stability (yes 2 seasons ) - it's given time to clear out the dead wood and try to shape a team for the future. I do expect at least 1-2 marquee signings in the summer.

However - it still concerns me that we had a blue-print for free flowing, attacking football and we effectively ripped it up - instead of tweaking it. But without a crystal ball we will never know.

Winning the EPL is all that counts and it doesn't matter whether it's the best league or not - we simply DO need to win it!

So despite my outbursts on the frustrations of Mou as a Manager and the under performance (IMHO) of the team - if we lift the EPL, I will be delighted and will consider the season a success. However, I would expect a big attacking improvement come August.

My final concern is that of the players - it's strange that Oscar a player developing nicely the past two seasons has stalled so much, is this a result of the negative tactics or is it vice-versa - the poor performances of not just Oscar, but other players as well - have forced Mourinho into the ultra conservative approach? I guess that's my million dollar question - to which I'm genuinely struggling to find an answer...

[The Chels 2,502]

Atleti are an excellent team, packed with outstanding players. Leverkausen have won what since 2002 and what in the ten years before that?

I suppose the word successfully can be defined in different ways. At Chelsea I think it defines winning trophies. It's up to Bayer fans and officials to decide what success means to them.

Atleti is a team packed with outstanding players but we aren't? I don't buy the excuse that a team needs everyone to be technically good à la Barcelona to play a pressing game. It's simply not true. If you watched the recent Atleti-Leverkusen games then you'll have noticed that both teams are excellent at pressing the opposition even though they are not so good at being pressed themselves (since they are not technically outstanding). You argue that because the likes of Willian, Oscar, Costa, Ramires, etc. wouldn't get in the Barca squad, that somehow justifies Jose's excessively passive and reactive big-game approach. I can't agree with that.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

And even if by surprise, he's able to deliver such football, the moment it goes wrong or appears to not be going according to plan his natural instinct will kick in and he will revert to his comfort zone anyway. Either way, the sort of football people are demanding isn't going to happen under jose.

Didn't that happen once already ? After Sunderland game in League Cup in December 2013, Jose said that scrapping wins and winning by one goal in the easiest thing in football. Since then we've reverted to his shell and as you said 'comford zone' by playing very conserative with Ivanovic-Cahill-Terry-Azpilicueta back line almost every time with maximum protection. I think we played better and more expansive at the beginnig of this season but even then when big game arrived or away game then we reverted to usual self.

So even when we indeed are going to sign more of his players, players that suits his demands and style of play (which is not only neutralizing opponents, right ?), a trusted lieutenants but with more quality, then I'm not sure that he doesn't pull Sunderland speech all over again and revert to his unstrained land ...

I fully believe that he deserves time to form his team with majority of players that he pickes to be the ones AND THEN BE JUDGED but I simply can't get over that the more could be done now. He said about long term plans many times but currently it's short term solutions by him all over again.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

I think Jose has done brilliant short-term work now - 2 trophies in 2 years is very good, regardless of quality of todays league. He deserves time to done the job on the long term and get final grades for that in the future seasons.

Anyone of you have read Carlo Ancelotti's biography ? He talks there about his first meeting with Abramovich in Paris (when he moved like a spy not to be spotted by anyone because he still had a contract with Milan - funny story). During his first meeting with the boss, Roman said to him "My team lacks identity. I see other teams like Barcelona with recognisable style and I don't see anything like that in my team. I want to have team with clear identity ... Can you deliver that to me ?" That's what Roman emphasised the most as Carlo said.

I just reminded myself about this and I think our boss isn't overly happy with current team. If he knows football as is said he knows and still has freak about clear identity then Jose hasn't delivered yet what Roman wants. I believe that Jose knows what our owner is expecting and after 2 years of short-term solutions he has to build long-term plan starting from next season. For example, the youths from the Academy have to start playing and not be numbers you can mess about, playing style without overly protection but with real pressing game.

We nullified Spurs by sacrifing Zouma to exclude Ericksen from the game, we put Azpilcueta on exterminate mission against Filipe in last year Champions League semi-final. We're not talking about nullifing Messi, Neymar or Robben/Ribery FFS but about teams against which we should be on top. We haven't yet imposed ourself against big side from the beginning and we're the big team.

We played some very good stuff against respectable team for example against Liverpool last year in December at home when we conceded early. We were on top for majority of the game, playing very good. The same happened again this season in the away fixture, until we conceded we were in our shell, after we conceded we imposed ourself, creating lots of chances. Against Spurs in autumn 2013 in an away game, we played carefully and shit in the first half eventually conceded a goal, then in the second we were absolutely brilliant, playing dominant football for majority of the game when our players had mind adjusted 'to score' not to 'not concede'. Against PSG last year in the away game, we conceded early but then for that 20-25 minutes spell we played some brilliant stuff because we really WANTED to score. And I don't think that's a coincidence. After we scored against PSG and LFC (both away games) and had positive result then we retreated again and had a hard time once more.

These examples just give me reasons to think that even with this side more could be done, for real. When we're not afraid to lose we can impose and be on top despite having Willians, Oscars etc. But we rarely have that mindset 'to score' against big teams, only looking to neutralize them.

But if Jose is saying that no, we can't impose ourself and Roman wants to have an identity in his side, then there is conflict of interests. Roman will help Jose with financial fundings and let's hope vice-versa will be done too.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I think Jose has done brilliant short-term work now - 2 trophies in 2 years is very good, regardless of quality of todays league. He deserves time to done the job on the long term and get final grades for that in the future seasons.

Anyone of you have read Carlo Ancelotti's biography ? He talks there about his first meeting with Abramovich in Paris (when he moved like a spy not to be spotted by anyone because he still had a contract with Milan - funny story). During his first meeting with the boss, Roman said to him "My team lacks identity. I see other teams like Barcelona with recognisable style and I don't see anything like that in my team. I want to have team with clear identity ... Can you deliver that to me ?" That's what Roman emphasised the most as Carlo said.

I just reminded myself about this and I think our boss isn't overly happy with current team. If he knows football as is said he knows and still has freak about clear identity then Jose hasn't delivered yet what Roman wants. I believe that Jose knows what our owner is expecting and after 2 years of short-term solutions he has to build long-term plan starting from next season. For example, the youths from the Academy have to start playing and not be numbers you can mess about, playing style without overly protection but with real pressing game.

We nullified Spurs by sacrifing Zouma to exclude Ericksen from the game, we put Azpilcueta on exterminate mission against Filipe in last year Champions League semi-final. We're not talking about nullifing Messi, Neymar or Robben/Ribery FFS but about teams against which we should be on top. We haven't yet imposed ourself against big side from the beginning and we're the big team.

We played some very good stuff against respectable team for example against Liverpool last year in December at home when we conceded early. We were on top for majority of the game, playing very good. The same happened again this season in the away fixture, until we conceded we were in our shell, after we conceded we imposed ourself, creating lots of chances. Against Spurs in autumn 2013 in an away game, we played carefully and shit in the first half eventually conceded a goal, then in the second we were absolutely brilliant, playing dominant football for majority of the game when our players had mind adjusted 'to score' not to 'not concede'. Against PSG last year in the away game, we conceded early but then for that 20-25 minutes spell we played some brilliant stuff because we really WANTED to score. And I don't think that's a coincidence. After we scored against PSG and LFC (both away games) and had positive result then we retreated again and had a hard time once more.

These examples just give me reasons to think that even with this side more could be done, for real. When we're not afraid to lose we can impose and be on top despite having Willians, Oscars etc. But we rarely have that mindset 'to score' against big teams, only looking to neutralize them.

But if Jose is saying that no, we can't impose ourself and Roman wants to have an identity in his side, then there is conflict of interests. Roman will help Jose with financial fundings and let's hope vice-versa will be done too.

Mourinho said something like that after the PSG game. He said the players didn't know how to handle the pressure of being a man up and with the lead. When we don't need to get a goal, we suddenly react over cautiously.

That's why we need to win the league. After that we'll go into games having nothing to lose since we've won the big trophy already...

[OhForAGreavsie 6,058]

Atleti is a team packed with outstanding players but we aren't? I don't buy the excuse that a team needs everyone to be technically good à la Barcelona to play a pressing game. It's simply not true. If you watched the recent Atleti-Leverkusen games then you'll have noticed that both teams are excellent at pressing the opposition even though they are not so good at being pressed themselves (since they are not technically outstanding). You argue that because the likes of Willian, Oscar, Costa, Ramires, etc. wouldn't get in the Barca squad, that somehow justifies Jose's excessively passive and reactive big-game approach. I can't agree with that.

My argument is that if we played the high press game with our squad we'd concede possession far too often in dangerous situations and get countered to death. Pick the best back five on the planet, put them in that situation and they'd concede goals for fun. If we played that way we'd win as much as Leverkausen do.

Sides hoping to be successful playing that style need to be packed with players who are good at recovering and retaining possession. That requires a critical mass of players with high energy, great touch, poise in possession, tight close control, rapid speed of thought and accurate passing. I say a critical mass because it only takes one Ramires, Willian, Oscar, or Mikel to break the chain and we not only have those four, we also have more where they came from.

My point re Barca is that most of our starters wouldn't even get in their squad precisely because our lot don't have the qualities to play the Barca way. I know it's only my opinion but I simply do not believe you are right to think that our current squad can be successful playing the way you want us to. The inescapable conclusion is that you rate our players more highly than I do.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

My argument is that if we played the high press game with our squad we'd concede possession far too often in dangerous situations and get countered to death. Pick the best back five on the planet, put them in that situation and they'd concede goals for fun. If we played that way we'd win as much as Leverkausen do.

Sides hoping to be successful playing that style need to be packed with players who are good at recovering and retaining possession. That requires a critical mass of players with high energy, great touch, poise in possession, tight close control, rapid speed of thought and accurate passing. I say a critical mass because it only takes one Ramires, Willian, Oscar, or Mikel to break the chain and we not only have those four, we also have more where they came from.

My point re Barca is that most of our starters wouldn't even get in their squad precisely because our lot don't have the qualities to play the Barca way. I know it's only my opinion but I simply do not believe you are right to think that our current squad can be successful playing the way you want us to. The inescapable conclusion is that you rate our players more highly than I do.

I agree. I think we are looking to play with more style, like we did pre Jan 1. I think this is not only due to our slow back line but because our squad is too thin in most areas to allow us to rest, say, Cesc for a week (2 matches) eg after crimbo or Matic, because either the replacements are too poor or non existent ( Mikel for Matic, Ramires for Cesc)

Which is why Jose will need to make some changes. I think next season will be his defining one, whether he presses ahead and plays more tiki taka football or decides to buy players who can do ugly footy. But I think that if ugly football was his goal he would have passed on Cesc and kept Lamps for an extra year.