The Mourinho Thread

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You mean the team that sat back the whole game figured out a little of what the other team was doing offensively?

Of course they did. The point is we play overly defensive, end of story. This "lack of form" isn't a true lack of form. It is a self inflicted one coming from passive and anxious play, that stems from the possibility of choking away the title. I can guarantee this "lack of form" will magically disappear as soon as we have the title locked up.

You can't sit here and in any way praise the defensive tactics as of recently. At the end of the day, there may be some ambiguity about the specifics of how we defended, in terms of funnelling or sending them to the wings, but we've been far too defensive lately, and it is making the team play worse, not better.

If we played our normal style, we'd be playing Barcelona right now, and we would have thumped this United side 4-2 or 5-2.

So you're saying that Jose said before the game: "Listen lads, you're all well paid professionals here and know a thing or two about tactics, I want you to get out there, sit back, figure out a way to stop their offensive system and key players and then do it!"

Let's be a tiny bit reasonable, shall we? Jose chose and worked on the tactics and should get the credit for them just like he gets all the stick when they don't work out.

And I'm not at all talking about our defensive approach at all nor am I defending our general approach to games. I'm talking about the tactics which very much were changed from "the usual tactics". I'm not even defending those tactics, I'm just saying that contrary to what you wrote, it was very clear that the tactics yesterday were very different than usual and adapted to united's play.

And I can and will praise tactics that managed to stop the system of the most in form team in the league. This is completely irrelevant of how attacking we were and what we looked to do with the ball. Regardless of how offensive you play, you still need to find the best way to defend again the opposition.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

So you're saying that Jose said before the game: "Listen lads, you're all well paid professionals here and know a thing or two about tactics, I want you to get out there, sit back, figure out a way to stop their offensive system and key players and then do it!"

Let's be a tiny bit reasonable, shall we? Jose chose and worked on the tactics and should get the credit for them just like he gets all the stick when they don't work out.

And I'm not at all talking about our defensive approach at all nor am I defending our general approach to games. I'm talking about the tactics which very much were changed from "the usual tactics". I'm not even defending those tactics, I'm just saying that contrary to what you wrote, it was very clear that the tactics yesterday were very different than usual and adapted to united's play.

And I can and will praise tactics that managed to stop the system of the most in form team in the league. This is completely irrelevant of how attacking we were and what we looked to do with the ball. Regardless of how offensive you play, you still need to find the best way to defend again the opposition.

Brendan Rodgers in disguise that one.

[Stats 7,156]

Great result and that and we done a good job in containg their attacking threats however I do understand why even post-match why people would be frustrated. We got the win but when you consider United had their 2 best holding mids out in Carrick and Blind and arguably all three first choice CB out in Rojo, Jones and Evans I reckon if we attacked them we could have taken them to the cleaners even with Drogba up front. We had enough attacking flair to hurt them. I am happy we got the win because if it ended a draw I would be really angry about how we did not attack them.

I am not complaining like others simply because we on but everyone has a right to an opinion. I think we could have beaten United either way, playing the football we did yesterday or if we actually went out with an attcking approach.

I would love us to go and attack Arsenal and show them who the title pretenders and contenders are. We will see.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

After seeing our performances in the first half of the season, I don't get how people are questioning whether jose can play attacking football. Everybody wants to see his team play a great attacking football but nobody wants to loose important games too.

I read on the DM JT saying after the game that we haven't been in our best form since January. What does that tell you? Jose and everybody else at the club knows we're not playing great recently. But should we let that cost us the title? WTF guys?

People keep forgetting Mourinho can easily play attacking football as we did in the beginning of the season. The players have lost form, fabregas not as good in passing, costa injured or suspended, Oscar forgetting how to tackle, even Matic makes a lot of poor passes nowadays so Mourinho is using tactics that work no matter the type of players or the form of players. And it's working, 30/39points is a fantastic return in the 2nd half of the season where players haven't been playing well.

[Polo7 3,496]

Great result and that and we done a good job in containg their attacking threats however I do understand why even post-match why people would be frustrated. We got the win but when you consider United had their 2 best holding mids out in Carrick and Blind and arguably all three first choice CB out in Rojo, Jones and Evans I reckon if we attacked them we could have taken them to the cleaners even with Drogba up front. We had enough attacking flair to hurt them. I am happy we got the win because if it ended a draw I would be really angry about how we did not attack them.

I am not complaining like others simply because we on but everyone has a right to an opinion. I think we could have beaten United either way, playing the football we did yesterday or if we actually went out with an attcking approach.

I would love us to go and attack Arsenal and show them who the title pretenders and contenders are. We will see.

Being so close to the trophy, is there any need to try and play attacking football then get caught on the counter attack and lose?

[Barbara 15,149]

That is good, and true, but some of us care about building a base, and general style of play which can eventually transform and build onto dominance.

Playing like this, will never prepare us for greater things, and push us to build on anything against far better teams than current Manchester United. I for one, want us to become a team in the same realm as Real, Bayern and Barca, where no matter where they go, they play their game. All those teams tweak things going to opposition home grounds at times, and at times playing slightly more defensively, etc, but not to the extent where they give up their identity.

We have all the tools and pieces to do that in the EPL. I never said that is something we should do in the Champions League yet, against Real, Bayern or Barca, but we should still have been able to do it against a team like PSG.

We had that going for us from 2005-2009ish. We went anywhere and played our game. At times, eased back, at times we pressed hard. Not close to the case now, yet you could argue our team is further in front in terms of balance and the gap between our opposition.

Please, at least try to see a few inches ahead of your nose (common expression in Portuguese, I don't mean to be offensive, just for you to try to see the bigger picture instead of the tiny pixels right in front of your eyes)

"but some of us care about building a base, and general style of play which can eventually transform and build onto dominance.

what do you think we're doing here? With the players we have, it's easy to play attacking football. Our both pivot players are very good on the ball, one of them has one of the best visions in the sport. They combine with Hazard, the third or so best player in the world and second in terms of raw talent and dribbling. Willian and Oscar when playing around those players and with more of a free reign showed that they can shine some too. We have one of the best attacking FB in the world - who I fully expect to see next season displacing Azpili (of course Mourinho won't drop Iva). We have some very prolific strikers and you know how I'm so sure about it? Because I saw this bunch of players working some magic for four months in a row.

You know what we didn't have yet? Nerves of steel, winning against adversity, scrapping results. How do I know that? Looking back to last season when our very limited squad (technically) could have won simply because of the geniality of our manager. But we came short because our players - most of them - weren't winners yet, didn't know how to deal with small teams challenging them to score against their parked buses. What we're forging in those players now is much more important, long term, base-forming and a step to dominance than simply playing attacking football. And you know why? Because we already showed we know how to play attacking football for four months. Why did we stop? For a series of reasons my fingers already know how to type without any command from my brain: players got injured, dropped form, got tired. As a team we lost intensity and guess what? For a team as new as we are this season (the key players only arrived this season) it wasn't unexpected at all they'd lose intensity and wouldn't be able to go through their first season playing together full throttle.

Playing like this, will never prepare us for greater things, and push us to build on anything against far better teams than current Manchester United. I for one, want us to become a team in the same realm as Real, Bayern and Barca, where no matter where they go, they play their game. All those teams tweak things going to opposition home grounds at times, and at times playing slightly more defensively, etc, but not to the extent where they give up their identity.

and do you think those teams built their identity from night to day, like you want us to do? It was years working in the same philosophy - regardless of the manager - years getting the right players to fit exactly their style and the right moment when most of those players peaked. Go do some research about Bayern and find out their onwer interviews saying it took them around a decade to come up with the team after they decided to go to Barcelona and study how they built their identity. United had the same manger for nearly 3 decades. Those things don't come overnight as you are demanding them to happen. We don't have the identity yet, we're building it. For it to happen, said identity needs to be drilled over and over again throughout a few seasons, the right players have to come in, most of said players have to reach their peak, the team must evolve in all areas - not only knowing how to attack and one of those areas is mentally - which was our big downfall last season. That's what they're learning now. We aren't simply grinding results, we're grinding character and winner mentality in those players.

Hazard is evolving in a beautiful way and while I see some buffoons saying imagine what he would do in an 'attacking team' I prefer to see that he's adding so many more things to his already obvious and incomparable talent. Cristiano isn't anywhere as talented as Messi, actually in terms of raw talent I think Eden is also ahead of him. But I read yesterday the guy has scored 50+ goals in ALL his seasons at RM. He works hard, he learned a lot of things to compensate his inferior talent. Eden is learning a lot of things maybe he wouldn't learn sitting in a team like Barcelona. That makes him a more complete player and those things won't make him unlearn how to dribble, how to play his football. He's paying a price right now, and isn't as free as he probably wanted to play, but he'll end up a more complete, a better player with nerves of steel. Everybody - especially the Belgians - can say this kind of mentality wasn't natural for his personality. It's a tough way the kid is taking and it just makes me prouder of him. I have maybe doubts in those two years if he had it in him to change a little bit his laid off personality and develop this killing instinct - not exactly to score or assist - but to step up and decide matches and influence matches anyway he can and make the team win. That's priceless in a young talent development imo. So I think unlike some geniuses here, he may feel actually very blessed and lucky to be playing in a place with a manager that are taking him from his comfort zone and helping him to maximize his talent. Nothing can contain his talent, his dribbling, his quality, not even the so-horrible-defensive--coward style you and others here believe we play.

Why should we jeopardize winning talents to build the identity? Football players are mostly motivated by titles. Mourinho is experienced and incredibly smart. He knows for the identity to be fully developed it has to be built with titles too. If he gave up on titles and went on just thinking about the identity the owner asked him to create, he'd have a difficult time motivating players because beautiful football without titles put a damper into any developing identity... Winning is as important as drilling the identity. If you stop doing one or the other, you could end up never reaching your goal. Those players in their vast majority are people who haven't studied to become professional players, such as people do for most careers in the world. They don't have career coaches, psychologists working on a personal level with them. They have managers that more often than not, don't stay around long enough, they have the club staff, not their own. Their university is the club they play, and for them to learn things, to evolve beyond their talent, for them to reach new heights, it has to come with titles otherwise they'll feel compelled to go somewhere else where they can win things. this is sports, not academic careers.

When we're ready, when all those factors I mentioned and a few more (chemistry, time, the remaining players, the more adequate bench, the talents we're nurturing in the academy under Mourinho's tutoring), we won't be giving up the identity every now and then, but said identity has to be fully developed and implemented for it to happen.

We had that going for us from 2005-2009ish. We went anywhere and played our game. At times, eased back, at times we pressed hard. Not close to the case now, yet you could argue our team is further in front in terms of balance and the gap between our opposition.

a couple of people already addressed this part of your post - which I disagree even further than the above parts I answered to, but this post is already big as it is, maybe in another occasions we could have a deeper talk about the myths, the truths and the lies about the first years under Roman (especially during and post Mourinho). It's more of the same case of turning a person into a saint just because they died. It seems natural to human race to overlook major flaws after something/someone dies. I'm sure psychology has a name for it and there must be numerous studies supporting it.

[didierforever 7,349]

The supporters were fantastic yesterday at the Bridge. That was the best atmosphere of the season, every tackle and every block was cheered for, it inspired the players throughout.

yup. the crowd was really up for it. makes me feel good that the people moaning on here are a very very small minority (even if they do go to the bridge). the fans who do go to the bridge, go off their own accord. the club or roman or jose dont hold a gun on their heads and force them to support the club. right now, the club has some objectives. the first objective is to win the league. end of. how it is achieved is not the important thing right now. its only about getting the PL done and dusted. get the monkey off jose's back, the team's back and give them the confidence that they can win the league.

from there, we start building towards style and flair of our early season football. start integrating youth and do what is necessary to acheive the maximum success.

right now, its all about the results. last night we got the result and gave a very very good performance. we did what we had wanted to do. and without a shred of doubt, roman, the boss, and the fans all were pleased. if there are a couple of people who cant be happy or act unhappy just to get some kind of idiotic attention, good for them. let them soak in their own misery. who the hell cares.

WE ARE 10 POINTS AHEAD OF ARSENAL. TOP OF THE TABLE SINCE DAY 1. AND ON THE WAY TO THE 5TH LEAGUE TITLE. COME ON CHELSEA.!!!

[Stats 7,156]

Being so close to the trophy, is there any need to try and play attacking football then get caught on the counter attack and lose?

Being at home and being the better team, is there any reason why we could not of attack them? Yes, I understand that the plan worked but we are the better team. We are top for a reason and their injuries were more than ours. There is no reason to suggest we could not have played an attacking game.

As I said, I am not disputing Mourinho's tactics as we won but I don't think people have a right to have a go at people who were frustrated after the match with our tactics. Because really and truly I reckon we could have hurt them if we showed them more of an attacking impetus. Especially when you see rookies in their team like Mcnair.

[didierforever 7,349]

Being at home and being the better team, is there any reason why we could not of attack them? Yes, I understand that the plan worked but we are the better team. We are top for a reason and their injuries were more than ours. There is no reason to suggest we could not have played an attacking game.

As I said, I am not disputing Mourinho's tactics as we won but I don't think people have a right to have a go at people who were frustrated after the match with our tactics. Because really and truly I reckon we could have hurt them if we showed them more of an attacking impetus. Especially when you see rookies in their team like Mcnair.

we could if we wanted to. people forget the pool match last season where we would probably have lined up for a similar way but since they got an early goal, we ripped them open for the rest of the half before shutting out the match in the second.

yesterday, we did not need the win, united did. a draw would have suited us as good. then why the risk. why should we be doing anything that makes us circumspect at this juncture in the season. just not worth it. we had a gameplan, and it worked like a charm.

[Special Juan 28,187]

It's not the winning that counts it's the moaning that matters.

:blue scalf:

New slogan for this thread.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Please, at least try to see a few inches ahead of your nose (common expression in Portuguese, I don't mean to be offensive, just for you to try to see the bigger picture instead of the tiny pixels right in front of your eyes)

what do you think we're doing here? With the players we have, it's easy to play attacking football. Our both pivot players are very good on the ball, one of them has one of the best visions in the sport. They combine with Hazard, the third or so best player in the world and second in terms of raw talent and dribbling. Willian and Oscar when playing around those players and with more of a free reign showed that they can shine some too. We have one of the best attacking FB in the world - who I fully expect to see next season displacing Azpili (of course Mourinho won't drop Iva). We have some very prolific strikers and you know how I'm so sure about it? Because I saw this bunch of players working some magic for four months in a row.

You know what we didn't have yet? Nerves of steel, winning against adversity, scrapping results. How do I know that? Looking back to last season when our very limited squad (technically) could have won simply because of the geniality of our manager. But we came short because our players - most of them - weren't winners yet, didn't know how to deal with small teams challenging them to score against their parked buses. What we're forging in those players now is much more important, long term, base-forming and a step to dominance than simply playing attacking football. And you know why? Because we already showed we know how to play attacking football for four months. Why did we stop? For a series of reasons my fingers already know how to type without any command from my brain: players got injured, dropped form, got tired. As a team we lost intensity and guess what? For a team as new as we are this season (the key players only arrived this season) it wasn't unexpected at all they'd lose intensity and wouldn't be able to go through their first season playing together full throttle.

and do you think those teams built their identity from night to day, like you want us to do? It was years working in the same philosophy - regardless of the manager - years getting the right players to fit exactly their style and the right moment when most of those players peaked. Go do some research about Bayern and find out their onwer interviews saying it took them around a decade to come up with the team after they decided to go to Barcelona and study how they built their identity. United had the same manger for nearly 3 decades. Those things don't come overnight as you are demanding them to happen. We don't have the identity yet, we're building it. For it to happen, said identity needs to be drilled over and over again throughout a few seasons, the right players have to come in, most of said players have to reach their peak, the team must evolve in all areas - not only knowing how to attack and one of those areas is mentally - which was our big downfall last season. That's what they're learning now. We aren't simply grinding results, we're grinding character and winner mentality in those players.

Hazard is evolving in a beautiful way and while I see some buffoons saying imagine what he would do in an 'attacking team' I prefer to see that he's adding so many more things to his already obvious and incomparable talent. Cristiano isn't anywhere as talented as Messi, actually in terms of raw talent I think Eden is also ahead of him. But I read yesterday the guy has scored 50+ goals in ALL his seasons at RM. He works hard, he learned a lot of things to compensate his inferior talent. Eden is learning a lot of things maybe he wouldn't learn sitting in a team like Barcelona. That makes him a more complete player and those things won't make him unlearn how to dribble, how to play his football. He's paying a price right now, and isn't as free as he probably wanted to play, but he'll end up a more complete, a better player with nerves of steel. Everybody - especially the Belgians - can say this kind of mentality wasn't natural for his personality. It's a tough way the kid is taking and it just makes me prouder of him. I have maybe doubts in those two years if he had it in him to change a little bit his laid off personality and develop this killing instinct - not exactly to score or assist - but to step up and decide matches and influence matches anyway he can and make the team win. That's priceless in a young talent development imo. So I think unlike some geniuses here, he may feel actually very blessed and lucky to be playing in a place with a manager that are taking him from his comfort zone and helping him to maximize his talent. Nothing can contain his talent, his dribbling, his quality, not even the so-horrible-defensive--coward style you and others here believe we play.

Why should we jeopardize winning talents to build the identity? Football players are mostly motivated by titles. Mourinho is experienced and incredibly smart. He knows for the identity to be fully developed it has to be built with titles too. If he gave up on titles and went on just thinking about the identity the owner asked him to create, he'd have a difficult time motivating players because beautiful football without titles put a damper into any developing identity... Winning is as important as drilling the identity. If you stop doing one or the other, you could end up never reaching your goal. Those players in their vast majority are people who haven't studied to become professional players, such as people do for most careers in the world. They don't have career coaches, psychologists working on a personal level with them. They have managers that more often than not, don't stay around long enough, they have the club staff, not their own. Their university is the club they play, and for them to learn things, to evolve beyond their talent, for them to reach new heights, it has to come with titles otherwise they'll feel compelled to go somewhere else where they can win things. this is sports, not academic careers.

When we're ready, when all those factors I mentioned and a few more (chemistry, time, the remaining players, the more adequate bench, the talents we're nurturing in the academy under Mourinho's tutoring), we won't be giving up the identity every now and then, but said identity has to be fully developed and implemented for it to happen.

a couple of people already addressed this part of your post - which I disagree even further than the above parts I answered to, but this post is already big as it is, maybe in another occasions we could have a deeper talk about the myths, the truths and the lies about the first years under Roman (especially during and post Mourinho). It's more of the same case of turning a person into a saint just because they died. It seems natural to human race to overlook major flaws after something/someone dies. I'm sure psychology has a name for it and there must be numerous studies supporting it.

brilliant.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

I'd like to see Oscar on the wing more. He posesses more pressing ability there whereas Willian shines in the middle.

No brainer to switch them imo.

NB: Just watched City's second counter attacking goal. Reminds me of us earlier in the season, and also why we need Costa back. We would have scored more yesterday imo, but Drog did his best, and we won, so it's fine. We kept all of their 'key players' quiet, and I agree with Jose when he said we had them in our pockets. It doesn't reflect well on us because we couldn't recycle the ball effectively but when we attacked we looked dangerous, we pressed all game, good signs imo. Even if they had Carrick we would have kept him quiet too. Long overdue for a big win, and I have a good feeling it'll be against the Gooners. 4-1 early prediction!

[Special Juan 28,187]

Shit loads of empty seats, commentators wanking over the football, Aguero the next coming of god and yet shit loads of points behind. And people have a pop at us and call us fickle.....Bows and ties just about on the premiership trophy and the engraving just about to be done, wouldn't have it any other way.

Keep up City........We got Mourinhooooooooo

Moaning, fucking moaning? You don't your born some of you. Blue and proud me, once a blue always a blue.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Shit loads of empty seats, commentators wanking over the football, Aguero the next coming of god and yet shit loads of points behind. And people have a pop at us and call us fickle.....Bows and ties just about on the premiership trophy and the engraving just about to be done, wouldn't have it any other way.

Keep up City........We got Mourinhooooooooo

Moaning, fucking moaning? You don't your born some of you. Blue and proud me, once a blue always a blue.

Lol and that's all despite a City season ticket costing a shade under £100.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

we could if we wanted to. people forget the pool match last season where we would probably have lined up for a similar way but since they got an early goal, we ripped them open for the rest of the half before shutting out the match in the second.

It's good that you remind of this. Liverpool at Stamford Bridge in December 2013 is one example, but the same can be said about second half performance at White Hart Lane in Autumn 2013 or Liverpool at Anfield in Autumn 2014. After the very shit first half in this Spurs game, Jose gave up hiding and put Schurrle on in a bid of goals and HOW GOOD we played ? When we needed a goal and have the mind adjusted for that after being down in those big matches , we could play fast and proper counter-attacking. That's for me clear indication that in this side there's indeed enough potential to go there toe-to-toe and win convincingly against good sides but somehow Jose forces inferiority complex in our team and we end up in submission.

There's a pity because If we'd be down against 10-men PSG at the Bridge I'm sure later we'd progress when attacking mentality would be in place in our players.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

If we'd played attacking football City style against United and lost 4-2 like they did you'd be asking for his head. I'm convinced Jose just can't win. Not showing United respect would have been a big mistake and putting Zouma on saved us the game.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

After seeing our performances in the first half of the season, I don't get how people are questioning whether jose can play attacking football. Everybody wants to see his team play a great attacking football but nobody wants to loose important games too.

I read on the DM JT saying after the game that we haven't been in our best form since January. What does that tell you? Jose and everybody else at the club knows we're not playing great recently. But should we let that cost us the title? WTF guys?

Exactly what I've been saying!

This same outdated & negative manager had us playing at levels we haven't seen in forever from August till Jan 1st, and in every game during that stretch we never looked like the 2nd best team.

That's all out the window now, never to be remembered as we coast to a PL trophy.

[iseah100 5,612]

Be calm. Jose will make the right moves in the transfer market and next year we'll be even better than early this season and for longer.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Be calm. Jose will make the right moves in the transfer market and next year we'll be even better than early this season and for longer.

Exactly.

Even then. As Souness said on SNF, we've played our football, we've done the legwork. Now we just need to get over the finish line and I'm okay with that. Even Madrid had a couple of months where they struggled (and nearly got KO'd by Schalke). No team is immune to it and we carry the unique ability of being able to carry ourselves through.

[Clockwork 1,794]

I wish to express my rebuttal on the openions that "we are a few players short to play the style we want."

The truth is if you feel that we are a few players short to play the style we want, then it is never going to happen. This mentality exsist in every club, i have not come across any situation or club that felt they had every piece to enforce the style they want. Is there a club in the world that thinks they have every piece to enforce the style they want? The answer is absloutely no. Even the best side of the last ten years, the Barca side in their prime never had every piece or felt short on a few players. They needed to upgrade their CBs for years, and they still do. Before Suarez and Neymar, they never felt they had the optiomal forwards around Messi. Ibra, Villa, Pedro, and Sanchez were not adequate enough for one reason or another.

Saying we are a few players short in order to play a proactive football, then with this mentality we will never play that style. Even if in the summer we do sign Pogba, Reus, and Varane. Which is unlikely imo but lets assume wo do for now. What is the excuse we are going to use when one of our key players get injured or out of form? oh yeah we are going to say we don't have the players to play with our foot in front.

If we apply this mentality in real life is the equivalent of someone saying i will start start losing weight when (insert excuse) or someone saying i will stop smoking when (insert excuse). It doesn't matter the excuses are unlimited. Same unlimited excuses apply to Club football, we will never feel like we have every piece to play the style we want, we can always say we need this or that. The reasons to procrastinaite is unlimited.

I am sorry to say this, but there is no chance Mou will change or we will have some sudden change of style. If you are fine with how we are playing then i can tolerate it in fact i can respect this view. Thinking othewise is delusional at this point, because there is not a shred of evidence to suggest otherwise.