The Mourinho Thread

[DanAdibi! 106]

If you think Eden Hazard knows better than Jose Mourinho when it comes to setting up a team (or if you think you know better than him) then there is something fundamentally wrong with you.

I guess Jose was right, there are too many football philosophers out there.

[darrus 422]

To explain further my thoughts : I said it in the Hazard thread already but I really do believe Mourinho is a great coach but there's always something people are good at and others they aren't ofcourse. So what I was thinking " Could Mourinho be the kind of coach the kind of coach that is more at ease with average up to really good player than with stars players ".

Probably you have a point, but - he made Ronaldo a better player by making him work more for the team, he moved Ramos to central defence and got him to be one of the best at the position, got Snejder to play the best he ever did, got Deco who was by then by popular opinion unreliable and fading away when something didn't go right to perform consistently, got Ibra to work, got Benzema to work...

I think his issue is more not with the players who are stars but with trying to implement his "team first" philosophy. There are bound to be players who can't cope with it.

[ack17 205]

Hazard is just another Casillas in Chelsea.

[iseah100 5,612]

Genius ? I really don't think so. Again I think he's a great coach, arguably the best ( I don't have any opinion about that ) but there wouldn't even be a shade of doubt about him being the best was he the genius some people think he is. People use the word " genius " way too lightly in my opinion.

No.. he's a footballing genius. He has forgotten more about the sport than we'll ever know. 21 trophies in 10 years. Won the league in Portugal, Spain, Italy, and England. Helped countless players reach their potential. His methods may not be popular, and he may drive certain players out. But he is a genius.

[darrus 422]

Hazard is just another Casillas in Chelsea.

No way. *That* sort of circus is impossible in any team but Real Madrid and let's hope it stands this way.

Hazard just did a really stupid thing that went public, he'll think twice next time.

[SoulTaker 46]

Probably you have a point, but - he made Ronaldo a better player by making him work more for the team, he moved Ramos to central defence and got him to be one of the best at the position, got Snejder to play the best he ever did, got Deco who was by then by popular opinion unreliable and fading away when something didn't go right to perform consistently, got Ibra to work, got Benzema to work...

I think his issue is more not with the players who are stars but with trying to implement his "team first" philosophy. There are bound to be players who can't cope with it.

Ah don't get me wrong, I didn't meant to imply he can't raise players, he surely can. What I meant it's the type of players that play more with their senses and feelings, I did say in my previous post " the word " genius " is used too lightly " but I really do believe this kind of players can be called genius, something they have but can't be raised/trained. I feel like mourinho is just too true to his tactics and it conflict with those kind of player would need to be able to roam freely.

[darrus 422]

No.. he's a footballing genius. He has forgotten more about the sport than we'll ever know. 21 trophies in 10 years. Won the league in Portugal, Spain, Italy, and England. Helped countless players reach their potential. His methods may not be popular, and he may drive certain players out. But he is a genius.

That he's forgotten about football more than this whole board combined ever knew - that's probably a fact But genius? Einstein is genius, Leonardo da Vinci is genius, football coach is just not on this scale.

He is a good coach, a great coach even, won in 12 years more than others do in a lifetime, knows a lot about football - but then doesn't know a lot as well and makes mistakes just like others. Less mistakes, probably, but he still makes them.

[iseah100 5,612]

That he's forgotten about football more than this whole board combined ever knew - that's probably a fact But genius? Einstein is genius, Leonardo da Vinci is genius, football coach is just not on this scale.

He is a good coach, a great coach even, won in 12 years more than others do in a lifetime, knows a lot about football - but then doesn't know a lot as well and makes mistakes just like others. Less mistakes, probably, but he still makes them.

Footballing genius, it was in the first sentence! Lol

[Alan Partridge 1,124]

Hazard may have a bad attitude, we already know he was a lazy sod when Jose first came back.

Hazard is only young and he needs to learn when to keep quiet, he won't make the same mistake twice.

I don't think Jose needed to fire back in the press but, maybe he thinks it will get a positive response from Hazard and show him who is boss.

I will defiantly side with the man who has won 2 Champions league titles and league titles in Portugal,England,Italy and Spain.

[SoulTaker 46]

No.. he's a footballing genius. He has forgotten more about the sport than we'll ever know. 21 trophies in 10 years. Won the league in Portugal, Spain, Italy, and England. Helped countless players reach their potential. His methods may not be popular, and he may drive certain players out. But he is a genius.

I really can't agree with this, Mourinho is a hard worker just like he like his player to be, he's someone who worked really hard to get where he's and it's because of that he's staying true to his approach of the football, because it's what made him what he's today. A genius isn't something you aim to be it's something you're since you're born ( ofcourse you still need to work hard for it to hold any meanings ) It's not like I put too much thought in coaching since I watch football but we may have yet to see what a " real " genius could do with a team in his hands.

[darrus 422]

I feel like mourinho is just too true to his tactics and it conflict with those kind of player would need to be able to roam freely.

But then how many players in modern football you can name who can be allowed this freedom without compromising the team? Messi, Ronaldo, Pirlo (and with him it already backfires for Juve sometimes). And Snejder and Ozil had enough freedom to create in his team, so probably he can adapt system to this sort of players too.

[SoulTaker 46]

But then how many players in modern football you can name who can be allowed this freedom without compromising the team? Messi, Ronaldo, Pirlo (and with him it already backfires for Juve sometimes). And Snejder and Ozil had enough freedom to create in his team, so probably he can adapt system to this sort of players too.

I think this is a " whole " and again it comes down to coaching abilities, I said it in my previous post but I think we have yet to see what a real genius could do with a team in his hands, In the end it's just a matter of automatism, team works and organization to me ( like I -tried to- explain(ed) in the Hazard thread ).

I really do feel that right now Hazard potential is somewhat being wasted... Now It's not like I know anything about him except what we see from him on the field and the image he let us see of him in interviews etc hence the " feeling ".People are talking about how more consistent he's compared to last year, and I agree he's ( except lately ). But in the end, being consistent, only mean reducing/closing the gap in a player up and down.in no way does it mean becoming a better player. He does feel more mature and less raw than last years but I also do believe he looks less promising than he was.. that's why I wanted you're opinion on whether Mourinho is the type that can " raise " this tpye of players.

[darrus 422]

I think this is a " whole " and again it comes down to coaching abilities, I said it in my previous post but I think we have yet to see what a real genius could do with a team in his hands, In the end it's just a matter of automatism, team works and organization to me ( like I -tried to- explain(ed) in the Hazard thread ).

I really do feel that right now Hazard potential is somewhat being wasted... Now It's not like I know anything about him except what we see from him on the field and the image he let us see of him in interviews etc hence the " feeling ".People are talking about how more consistent he's compared to last year, and I agree he's ( except lately ). But in the end, being consistent, only mean reducing/closing the gap in a player up and down.in no way does it mean becoming a better player. He does feel more mature and less raw than last years but I also do believe he looks less promising than he was.. that's why I wanted you're opinion on whether Mourinho is the type that can " raise " this tpye of players.

Hazard does have discipline issues, as both Willmots and Mourinho commented on it. You don't get all the way up on your talent alone, you need to work your butt off as well. That's what Mourinho is good at getting out of his players.

There is always a danger with very talented players that they can believe their own hype and decide that they are good enough as it is. Exampe - Bojan Krkic, back then when he and Messi were going up the ranks Krkic was considered more talented of the two and future multiple Balon d'Or winner, and all this talent got him where?

I'm not sayiing Hazard is on the same path, no way - he clearly is developing, is more consistent and generally better this season. But all this "I have to do it alone" talk is not good.

But there is also questions of personality. Some players need to be slapped in the face in public, and some need to be cuddled and protected. And while Mourinho is usually getting such things right he's not immune to mistakes.

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

Now his blaming his tactical mistakes on Hazard?? How many times has Hazard bailed him out this season??? He wasnt even there when we blew the league aganst a shitty Sunderland, he did not choose himself on Wednesday night when he clearly wasnt fit to start so cut the crap and admit to your mistakes not try to blame it on other people

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

I Want the football from the last double...

[darrus 422]

Now his blaming his tactical mistakes on Hazard?? How many times has Hazard bailed him out this season??? He wasnt even there when we blew the league aganst a shitty Sunderland, he did not choose himself on Wednesday night when he clearly wasnt fit to start so cut the crap and admit to your mistakes not try to blame it on other people

Just out of curiosity - when and where did Mourinho blame Hazard or any other player? Or now pointing out the mistake and the need to improve means blaming?

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

Just out of curiosity - when and where did Mourinho blame Hazard or any other player? Or now pointing out the mistake and the need to improve means blaming?

The mistake was playing a half fit hazard from the start or playing with 6 defenders, or bringing on a half fit Etoo, thats the mistake not Eden failing to track back

[darrus 422]

The mistake was playing a half fit hazard from the start or playing with 6 defenders, or bringing on a half fit Etoo, thats the mistake not Eden failing to track back

But Hazard failing to clear the ball from Juanfran was a mistake, he was supposed to do it and he didn't, and that was what Mourinho was talking about.

And if you watched the match - we played with 4 defenders, not 6, Luiz was in the pivot (and when he did play in defence last time anyway?) and Azpi was in midfield.