The Mourinho Thread

[English Freak 456]

But it has always been his gameplan during the years to exploit spaces when the opposition loses the ball.

And his critics have always said that his teams were not very creative when his teams had to dictate the play against teams sitting deep. More a waiting and attrition game than great quick intricate passing game.

It's nothing new. Just look at all the game of his teams when playing good team, defensive, rough play and quick counters or long balls.

I don't understand how you expect that we won't be in scrappy games many times when in his first chelsea period, even with the world class players and the abundance of great midfielders, they were many scrappy games.

And that's why I'm not a fan of Mourinho and that after the pre-season games and the first game that I was not surprised we were struggling to be really dangerous when the other team let us the ball.

Completely agree.

I'm sure we'll win trophies under Mourinho...but I doubt we'll see attractive football whilst he's manager.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

But it has always been his gameplan during the years to exploit spaces when the opposition loses the ball.

And his critics have always said that his teams were not very creative when his teams had to dictate the play against teams sitting deep. More a waiting and attrition game than great quick intricate passing game.

It's nothing new. Just look at all the game of his teams when playing good team, defensive, rough play and quick counters or long balls.

I don't understand how you expect that we won't be in scrappy games many times when in his first chelsea period, even with the world class players and the abundance of great midfielders, they were many scrappy games.

And that's why I'm not a fan of Mourinho and that after the pre-season games and the first game that I was not surprised we were struggling to be really dangerous when the other team let us the ball.

The game has changed immensely since Jose's first stint here. Not Chelsea's game, but all of football, especially the concept of defending. Jose himself has had an immense influence on how teams around the world defend, actually. It's not fair to say that his teams struggle against defensive teams because Madrid dealt well with tight defenses and always managed to create spaces. His Inter were also head and shoulders above everyone else in the most defensive and tactically toughest league in the world.

The philosophy is different than 2004, we're not trying to play a low block and give the opposition the ball, we don't have the players to do that. We're trying to play possession football, like Jose has said several times. But our attacking midfielders has played without a proper tactical system for 2-3 seasons now, they will need time to adapt to the new philosophy Jose is trying to implement. It needs work and time. Whoever expected that we start the season on top form and that we put in consistent performances with the players we currently have was being unrealistically optimistic.

[The_Flash 1,144]

It really showed up the pundits that Jose is watching EVERYTHING. I totally agreed with him having a go at them, was brilliant. I was appalled at the amount of rubbish the press are spouting now, all this he isnt the special one anymore, chelsea are rubbish, etc, etc. It's pathetic. I really hope we kick on and really show them

I CHELSEA

[Special Juan 27,111]

There is currently a team sitting eight position four places below us, have lost two, just had their arses kicked by their rivals and currently have no midfield what so ever.

Now who should the press be banging on about now? Crisis Chelsea? Nah, don't think so...

[TrippingStep 336]

The game has changed immensely since Jose's first stint here. Not Chelsea's game, but all of football, especially the concept of defending. Jose himself has had an immense influence on how teams around the world defend, actually. It's not fair to say that his teams struggle against defensive teams because Madrid dealt well with tight defenses and always managed to create spaces. His Inter were also head and shoulders above everyone else in the most defensive and tactically toughest league in the world.

The philosophy is different than 2004, we're not trying to play a low block and give the opposition the ball, we don't have the players to do that. We're trying to play possession football, like Jose has said several times. But our attacking midfielders has played without a proper tactical system for 2-3 seasons now, they will need time to adapt to the new philosophy Jose is trying to implement. It needs work and time. Whoever expected that we start the season on top form and that we put in consistent performances with the players we currently have was being unrealistically optimistic.

But I don't deny his influence on defensive play and ironically it could be his downplay as the low block defending, not commit yourself in a stupid way to chase the ball, narrow defense in the center was his trademark and that his teams struggle against this kind of approach.

Last year, I was expecting Real to crush Manchester United, putting huge pressure on the Manchester Defense but it was a very cautious game with Manchester happy to sit deep and Real playing very cautious game in front of their defense, waiting more for an error than creating plays to induce them.

And for the 2-3 seasons without tactical system, I disagree, we had one under Benitez that were appropriate for our spanish, brazilian players + Eden Hazard. Schurrle could also be good on the right on that system. It needed reinforcements in midfield and a forward.

All our offensive players would have not struggled that much I think.

And Azpi Ivanovic Luiz Cole defense is fine for me.

[Jase 43,479]

LOL, he then went on and owned Guilet a few minutes later in his post-match PC

I really liked his interview with CTV after the match. It really tells you along which lines Jose is thinking. He said that our problem in the offense that the three behind the striker are still not good at creating spaces with their movement and that that needs time to come so for now what we should work on is exploit the spaces the opposition has directly after they lose the ball. He also said "Of course, I don't know, of course" when asked if he knows what his best team is at the moment. Several members have said that but it's good to hear that that is the case from Jose himself.

He also touched on a matter that has been overlooked when the "crisis" was being discussed and that is the ability of our mostly young players to deal with defeat and how they react to pressure. When asked what he said at half that the game changed so much, he answered that he made sure that he was very calm and pragmatic with the players because the squad is not ready for offensive speech and criticism when they are losing.

I don't disagree with him being calm and pragmatic in the team talks especially in a 'bad moment' like this but don't quite like the idea he has been playing at of managing a young squad. We only have a few young players in Schurrle, Hazard, Oscar, De Bruyne and Van Ginkel in the squad. The rest are mostly experienced and senior players and yet he seem to be constantly banging about like he's managing a squad with every player being U23.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

But I don't deny his influence on defensive play and ironically it could be his downplay as the low block defending, not commit yourself in a stupid way to chase the ball, narrow defense in the center was his trademark and that his teams struggle against this kind of approach.

Last year, I was expecting Real to crush Manchester United, putting huge pressure on the Manchester Defense but it was a very cautious game with Manchester happy to sit deep and Real playing very cautious game in front of their defense, waiting more for an error than creating plays to induce them.

And for the 2-3 seasons without tactical system, I disagree, we had one under Benitez that were appropriate for our spanish, brazilian players + Eden Hazard. Schurrle could also be good on the right on that system. It needed reinforcements in midfield and a forward.

All our offensive players would have not struggled that much I think.

And Azpi Ivanovic Luiz Cole defense is fine for me.

Not really fair to judge on Jose on last year because Madrid had issues that had nothing to do with tactics. The dressing room politics were getting in the way of the football.

What Benitez did was a quick-fix. He did a very good job at it but it was never going to be a long-term thing. It was very simplistic because he had no time on the training ground to come up with a new system and he knew he would be gone by the end of the season. What he did was switch to 4-4-1-1, with two banks of 4 and a deep block when defending. He made the wingers play deeper with only Azpi going forward and Cole staying deep while freeing Mata and the striker of almost all defensive duties. On the offense all he did was try to get the ball out of defense with a Azpi-pivot-RW triangle and rely on the speed of Hazard, Torres and Ramires on the counter. But other than that we had no clear offensive system. He rode the incredible form of Mata (tbf, he also contributed to it) and relied on the individual brilliance of Mata, Hazard and Oscar to create something. That's why that could never have lasted. But even that took a couple of months to implement. Up until early Jan we were terrible under Benitez and even in the closing months of the season were we got the job done, we were often inconsistent.

What Jose is trying to do on the other hand is create a philosophy for the , club a new identity. He remodeled our defensive system, solved the issue of the gap between the pivot and back four and the issue of getting the ball out of defense with the role he created for the number ten. He's trying to create an offensive system that is based on player movement and plays that he draws up instead of the randomness of individual brilliance. That's what a footballing philosophy means, a comprehensive system of play that team can implement regardless of the players that come and go to the club. A philosophy is something that carries the team for years. The philosophy that Jose created back in 2004 has lived with the club till 2012 and saw a lot of success. But it will take time, especially that the squad we currently have is made up of young players that will need time to adapt and time to become consistent.

You're also forgetting that last season, Chelsea were a Europa League level club. Yes we made third place, but we were not much better than Everton, Liverpool and the likes. Teams fancied their chances against us especially that we were very inconsistent and can go from beating united to losing to QPR. This season it is different, we are tittle contenders (and our team has been hyped to the extent that it can actually hurt us) and almost every team sets up against us for a goal-less draw. That's what you get when every pundit in the country jumps on the bandwagon and says you're going to win the league. Which is why I said that if anything good came out of our "crisis" is that it lowers the expectations and "hype" around our team and maybe some teams will be more encouraged to attack against us.

[TrippingStep 336]

Not really fair to judge on Jose on last year because Madrid had issues that had nothing to do with tactics. The dressing room politics were getting in the way of the football.

What Benitez did was a quick-fix. He did a very good job at it but it was never going to be a long-term thing. It was very simplistic because he had no time on the training ground to come up with a new system and he knew he would be gone by the end of the season. What he did was switch to 4-4-1-1, with two banks of 4 and a deep block when defending. He made the wingers play deeper with only Azpi going forward and Cole staying deep while freeing Mata and the striker of almost all defensive duties. On the offense all he did was try to get the ball out of defense with a Azpi-pivot-RW triangle and rely on the speed of Hazard, Torres and Ramires on the counter. But other than that we had no clear offensive system. He rode the incredible form of Mata (tbf, he also contributed to it) and relied on the individual brilliance of Mata, Hazard and Oscar to create something. That's why that could never have lasted. But even that took a couple of months to implement. Up until early Jan we were terrible under Benitez and even in the closing months of the season were we got the job done, we were often inconsistent.

What Jose is trying to do on the other hand is create a philosophy for the , club a new identity. He remodeled our defensive system, solved the issue of the gap between the pivot and back four and the issue of getting the ball out of defense with the role he created for the number ten. He's trying to create an offensive system that is based on player movement and plays that he draws up instead of the randomness of individual brilliance. That's what a footballing philosophy means, a comprehensive system of play that team can implement regardless of the players that come and go to the club. A philosophy is something that carries the team for years. The philosophy that Jose created back in 2004 has lived with the club till 2012 and saw a lot of success. But it will take time, especially that the squad we currently have is made up of young players that will need time to adapt and time to become consistent.

You're also forgetting that last season, Chelsea were a Europa League level club. Yes we made third place, but we were not much better than Everton, Liverpool and the likes. Teams fancied their chances against us especially that we were very inconsistent and can go from beating united to losing to QPR. This season it is different, we are tittle contenders (and our team has been hyped to the extent that it can actually hurt us) and almost every team sets up against us for a goal-less draw. That's what you get when every pundit in the country jumps on the bandwagon and says you're going to win the league. Which is why I said that if anything good came out of our "crisis" is that it lowers the expectations and "hype" around our team and maybe some teams will be more encouraged to attack against us.

You belittle Benitez if you say that there was not clear patterns in our attack.

Even on the cross after a patient build-up, there was clear patterns and role in the runs and positioning of the players.

And for the low-block, it was not on all the games and not like under Di Matteo where the teams would sit in a passive way. The wingers had to drop more deep when waiting but it was to make it more compact, and to allow the defense, and central midfielders to be more agressive.

When we had to press very high, we played a high line, Against Arsenal, the back 4 played the off-side and Walcott was quite often off-side.

Benteke the first match was off-side a lot of time. We played the off-side a lot more than under Di Matteo and even Mourinho till now. .

Hazard was much better and seeing like nearly all the matches of Hazard since his debut at Lille, He did a very good job with him, not extraordinary things but many little things that assembled together makes huge difference.

I would have liked to see this season under him, fitter players, many players used to the system, some reinforcements.

Or maybe I'm stupid for having the impression to know what Benitez was trying to do, having seen movements on regular basis that can only means that it's been rehearsed, discussed during trainings as the timing of the run, some interchange of positions that were neat cannot be improvised.

I didn't like his selection on the first matches but after two months, I liked what he was trying to do and the improvements made on our general play.

Do you think that at Napoli, the link-up between Hamsik, Callejon and Higuain is just random and not worked. There is always improvisation but also work behind it to ask the players different things depending on how the other team defense is set-up.

Otherwise, on the Mata Oscar debate, I understand Jose and is not why I'm not a fan.

[couris 232]

The Jose cocksucking in this thread is too damn high.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

The best thing i liked most about the sky interview was it seems mourinho is in for the long term and is building the team for it

[The only place to be 11,313]

The Jose cocksucking in this thread is too damn high.

I'd have thought it would be waist-height. Were you taught to do it differently?

[Sidzeret 2,257]

The real intent of Mourinho for the season, with regards to his first team squad will,hopefully, be revealed in the team selection for Spurs provided everyone plays well against Swindon..

Hope that involves Mata

[kellzfresh 7,226]

You belittle Benitez if you say that there was not clear patterns in our attack.

Even on the cross after a patient build-up, there was clear patterns and role in the runs and positioning of the players.

And for the low-block, it was not on all the games and not like under Di Matteo where the teams would sit in a passive way. The wingers had to drop more deep when waiting but it was to make it more compact, and to allow the defense, and central midfielders to be more agressive.

When we had to press very high, we played a high line, Against Arsenal, the back 4 played the off-side and Walcott was quite often off-side.

Benteke the first match was off-side a lot of time. We played the off-side a lot more than under Di Matteo and even Mourinho till now. .

Hazard was much better and seeing like nearly all the matches of Hazard since his debut at Lille, He did a very good job with him, not extraordinary things but many little things that assembled together makes huge difference.

I would have liked to see this season under him, fitter players, many players used to the system, some reinforcements.

Or maybe I'm stupid for having the impression to know what Benitez was trying to do, having seen movements on regular basis that can only means that it's been rehearsed, discussed during trainings as the timing of the run, some interchange of positions that were neat cannot be improvised.

I didn't like his selection on the first matches but after two months, I liked what he was trying to do and the improvements made on our general play.

Do you think that at Napoli, the link-up between Hamsik, Callejon and Higuain is just random and not worked. There is always improvisation but also work behind it to ask the players different things depending on how the other team defense is set-up.

Otherwise, on the Mata Oscar debate, I understand Jose and is not why I'm not a fan.

Excellent analysis. it wasnt as if benitez didnt have a system, he had one.

The problem was that he wasnt going to stay longer or the fans reaction will go in flames.

So what happens is that mourinho has come in to avoid that and give the fans their wish. But mourinho is staying for the long haul, so he is building a new style of play but it's completely different from benitez.

Thats the problem, he couldnt come in and abandon his own knowledge as a manager only to start using benitez own. So he needs time to implement his own.

Mourinho could have easily come and fill in the gaps and continue from benitez system, but he will then be judged from benitez system which doesnt make sense. Just look at guardiola at bayern, he will always be judged because jupp heynkes style was working well for them, but he is the manager now and wants to put his own imprint on the team.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

I seriously despise modern football. Can you give the manager more than 5 games before you start turning on him?

He's constantly stated he's here for the long term. He could have continued the tactics we've been using for the last 3-4 years and tweaked it here and there but he's acknowledged it doesn't work long term and is building a new system.

He's decided he's going to build the team around the player with the most potential & highest potential on the team which he's identified as Oscar, deal with it.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You belittle Benitez if you say that there was not clear patterns in our attack.

Even on the cross after a patient build-up, there was clear patterns and role in the runs and positioning of the players.

And for the low-block, it was not on all the games and not like under Di Matteo where the teams would sit in a passive way. The wingers had to drop more deep when waiting but it was to make it more compact, and to allow the defense, and central midfielders to be more agressive.

When we had to press very high, we played a high line, Against Arsenal, the back 4 played the off-side and Walcott was quite often off-side.

Benteke the first match was off-side a lot of time. We played the off-side a lot more than under Di Matteo and even Mourinho till now. .

Hazard was much better and seeing like nearly all the matches of Hazard since his debut at Lille, He did a very good job with him, not extraordinary things but many little things that assembled together makes huge difference.

I would have liked to see this season under him, fitter players, many players used to the system, some reinforcements.

Or maybe I'm stupid for having the impression to know what Benitez was trying to do, having seen movements on regular basis that can only means that it's been rehearsed, discussed during trainings as the timing of the run, some interchange of positions that were neat cannot be improvised.

I didn't like his selection on the first matches but after two months, I liked what he was trying to do and the improvements made on our general play.

Do you think that at Napoli, the link-up between Hamsik, Callejon and Higuain is just random and not worked. There is always improvisation but also work behind it to ask the players different things depending on how the other team defense is set-up.

Otherwise, on the Mata Oscar debate, I understand Jose and is not why I'm not a fan.

I'm not belittling Benitez, I was one of very few people defending him last season and I even wrote an article explaining how he had done a good job regardless if we won the EL or made top 4 (and got crucified for it).

I'm not disagree with any of what you are saying, but all those were a quick-fix for certain areas and certain situations but not an overall system. And even those enhancements were based on individual player skills. For example, our entire plan to get the ball from defense to attack when the other team is not in transition was based on Azpi's ability on the ball. If he was not playing, or the opposition decide to mark him, we had to rely on Luiz's under 10% accuracy long balls. Even in the defense, Rafa improved some aspects like you said by having the wingers track back and we actually started defending in midfield rather than on the edge of our own box like we did under RDM. But it was all still depending on individual player ability to defend in certain situations and we did not have a clear tactical system in our defending. Did we look to press high and overrun the opposition in midfield? Did we look to retrieve the ball by forcing the opposition to the flanks? Did we look pack the box and win the ball deep? I personally didn't see any of that.

I'm not blaming Benitez for any of that. He was asked for immediate success and he delivered. Plus he had no time on the training ground to implement a new system. Instead, he tried to improve certain aspects, and he also worked on improving the players individually which was beneficial not for last season alone but will certainly help us this season and the ones to come. But the point I was making that what Jose is trying to do now is more complicated and if it took Rafa two months to implement have his mark on the team, Jose should get the same at the very least.

Whether or not Rafa would have done well this season is a completely different debate and a hypothetical one that I honestly see no point in going into at the moment since we have more than enough real problems to discuss

The Jose cocksucking in this thread is too damn high.

Thank you, for that valuable contribution to the discussion

[Alan Partridge 1,124]

There is currently a team sitting eight position four places below us, have lost two, just had their arses kicked by their rivals and currently have no midfield what so ever.

Now who should the press be banging on about now? Crisis Chelsea? Nah, don't think so...

When you consider that is the exact team plus felaini that ran away with the league last season, Moyes has no excuses. Same squad, same style, same philosophy.

Jose has lots of new young players and is trying to change our style.

You would think we have lost every game judging by some peoples reactions lately

[Special Juan 27,111]

When you consider that is the exact team plus felaini that ran away with the league last season, Moyes has no excuses. Same squad, same style, same philosophy.

Jose has lots of new young players and is trying to change our style.

You would think we have lost every game judging by some peoples reactions lately

By the way watching Fellaini yesterday United have been completely fleeced of 28M for him.....considering the position he played yesterday is the position where Kagawa should be, not Fellaini and how Ashley Young is still playing at this level is fucking beyond me.....he's shite.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

By the way watching Fellaini yesterday United have been completely fleeced of 28M for him.....considering the position he played yesterday is the position where Kagawa should be, not Fellaini and how Ashley Young is still playing at this level is fucking beyond me.....he's shite.

And how is he still wearing Paul Scholes shirt is beyond me.....Horrid diving shit

and Moyes seems to be completely forgotten about Kagawa..he could have had a great career at Dortmund with Klopp, now he has to learn from Moyes who seems to be having no clue what to do with his midfield.