The Mourinho Thread

[Barbara 15,149]

I do have a problem with the Eden situation because of the Mata situation. Tom what I meant is if Eden can't deal with being benched, then get him a shrink AFTER benching him. I agree with you about he unlearning and learning - but that should reflect more on his positioning, his work-rate, his movement, but I think what's bad right now isn't any of those things, but how he just doesn't respond to the problems presented to him. We see 1-2 good plays by him per match and sometimes not even that... He needs to step up, he needs to be more daring in his actions and more lethal. We all know he's capable of that.

Mata is going through the same... the only difference between both is that I see Eden responding to the work-rate demand promptly. He improved light years in that department whereas Mata didn't. But well Hazard is bigger, stronger and faster than Mata so it's easier to him and he's trying, I can honestly say Eden is trying - whereas Mata seems a bit lost, poor thing.

But my problem is if he comes publicly and says he'll keep or drop players based in the present presentations, then how come Hazard stays in the team when he has been okay or bad more often than a simple good? I know he's the guy Mourinho is betting all his money on. I know he's his untouchable, I know he's his golden goose (I wonder if the players are goose's or hen's eggs ) and I actually agree with him and support him on working on the team in a way that Hazard will be our biggest star because among the current players we have he's the only guy who has potential to be comparable to the likes of Neymar, Reus, Gotze, Bale (I don't see much in Bale, but for the sake of the world who seems to be fascinated by him I'm including him) and probably others I can't remember who will be the next generation's super stars. Hazard is our future and the guy I think will be getting Balon d'Or nominations in a few years against those guys I just mentioned (except Bale ).

But there's a distance between potential and talent and José said it himself, so I think he could use the same rules he's been using to the whole team to Hazard. It will help his growth. He needs to know that if he doesn't play well, he'll be dropped. Not when he doesn't play well in 1-2 matches because that's normal, but Eden is yet to give us a really great match and honestly I think Kevin and André outplayed him so far, so why does Mou have to choose between André and Kev if he could be giving them both chances by dropping Hazard for a couple of matches? Mata must feel bad because of that... it doesn't help the Mata situation because Juan is not stupid and anyone can see Eden isn't playing as well as he was... or as he should. He needs to mature in a few areas I think he's still a bit immature. He's 22 and I know he's young, but let's not use this excuse forever... Oscar is younger than him and he's showing more maturity, so the age excuse can get you only as far.

This kind of situation is the one that could bring a dressing room problem. It isn't benching Mata and Luiz because of bad performances, as this is only natural, but it is keeping Hazard when he's been playing as bad or worse. Once Hazard shows in the pitch his untouchable status then I think it's fair that Mourinho starts overlooking a few bad matches. Two seasons ago (or early last season) Cris had a streak of about 5 matches playing shit. But it wasn't only not scoring, it was finishing a-la-Torres. I remember one of those matches were in UCL and I was like 'Cris for God's sake just stop sucking', but after everything Cristiano Ronaldo showed the world he can afford to play bad for a streak and still be kept in the team. Cris is one of the hardest workers I've seen in football. He's the kind of guy that many times arrived earlier to the training sessions and left after everyone else because he was doing his personal training, he was improving his finishing, training free kicks. You don't drop a guy like that even if he plays bad in 10 matches in a row because he's on his peak and it's only a bad patch. But you can't treat the guy that is in the middle of his improvement curve the same way.

Also I said in a previous post the things I disagree with Mou, but didn't say the ones I agree and that I've seen others disagreeing. I support Iva in the team 100%, I think our pivot can be improved with the players we have, improving the philosophy and also working closely with Mikel and Ramires who I believe can still learn a trick or two and improve technically. Oscar naturally drops deeper, so he'll make up for some lack of quality in the pass and in the vision in our midfield even if he plays as a #10. Don't get me wrong, I would have signed a better DM/CM but I think what we have is workable. Every team has an area where they aren't the best in the world, so let ours be there until van Ginkel grows and improves and obviously I agree with Oscar being in our #10. Until Mata recovers his form, the spot is Oscar's for the take. I don't want Oscar playing in the wings or in the pivot, he belongs in the #10 and the only situation I see him moving is to the bench when/if Mata becomes a better option. I don't know if Mourinho will play Mata in the wing or if he plans to move Oscar there once Mata is 100% sharp again. If it's the latter he'll have a hill to climb because Oscar has to improve a lot to play there... right now he can't. Or as someone pointed out maybe Mourinho wants Mata to be what Oscar is now - only that improved because he's more creative - and then work on Oscar's own growth and move him to the pivot. I'll cry when this days arrives (if it does) although on early days I supported the idea. But Mourinho isn't here to make the players play where I want them to play or where they want to play, but to find where they can be more useful to the team. I'll support him whatever his plan is about Oscar in the future once Mata is ready to reclaim his position.

[-Kaplan- 410]

It would break my heart to see Mata leave, but that doesn't mean it is the wrong thing to do.

[TrippingStep 336]

I do have a problem with the Eden situation because of the Mata situation. Tom what I meant is if Eden can't deal with being benched, then get him a shrink AFTER benching him. I agree with you about he unlearning and learning - but that should reflect more on his positioning, his work-rate, his movement, but I think what's bad right now isn't any of those things, but how he just doesn't respond to the problems presented to him. We see 1-2 good plays by him per match and sometimes not even that... He needs to step up, he needs to be more daring in his actions and more lethal. We all know he's capable of that.

Mata is going through the same... the only difference between both is that I see Eden responding to the work-rate demand promptly. He improved light years in that department whereas Mata didn't. But well Hazard is bigger, stronger and faster than Mata so it's easier to him and he's trying, I can honestly say Eden is trying - whereas Mata seems a bit lost, poor thing.

But my problem is if he comes publicly and says he'll keep or drop players based in the present presentations, then how come Hazard stays in the team when he has been okay or bad more often than a simple good? I know he's the guy Mourinho is betting all his money on. I know he's his untouchable, I know he's his golden goose (I wonder if the players are goose's or hen's eggs ) and I actually agree with him and support him on working on the team in a way that Hazard will be our biggest star because among the current players we have he's the only guy who has potential to be comparable to the likes of Neymar, Reus, Gotze, Bale (I don't see much in Bale, but for the sake of the world who seems to be fascinated by him I'm including him) and probably others I can't remember who will be the next generation's super stars. Hazard is our future and the guy I think will be getting Balon d'Or nominations in a few years against those guys I just mentioned (except Bale ).

But there's a distance between potential and talent and José said it himself, so I think he could use the same rules he's been using to the whole team to Hazard. It will help his growth. He needs to know that if he doesn't play well, he'll be dropped. Not when he doesn't play well in 1-2 matches because that's normal, but Eden is yet to give us a really great match and honestly I think Kevin and André outplayed him so far, so why does Mou have to choose between André and Kev if he could be giving them both chances by dropping Hazard for a couple of matches? Mata must feel bad because of that... it doesn't help the Mata situation because Juan is not stupid and anyone can see Eden isn't playing as well as he was... or as he should. He needs to mature in a few areas I think he's still a bit immature. He's 22 and I know he's young, but let's not use this excuse forever... Oscar is younger than him and he's showing more maturity, so the age excuse can get you only as far.

This kind of situation is the one that could bring a dressing room problem. It isn't benching Mata and Luiz because of bad performances, as this is only natural, but it is keeping Hazard when he's been playing as bad or worse. Once Hazard shows in the pitch his untouchable status then I think it's fair that Mourinho starts overlooking a few bad matches. Two seasons ago (or early last season) Cris had a streak of about 5 matches playing shit. But it wasn't only not scoring, it was finishing a-la-Torres. I remember one of those matches were in UCL and I was like 'Cris for God's sake just stop sucking', but after everything Cristiano Ronaldo showed the world he can afford to play bad for a streak and still be kept in the team. Cris is one of the hardest workers I've seen in football. He's the kind of guy that many times arrived earlier to the training sessions and left after everyone else because he was doing his personal training, he was improving his finishing, training free kicks. You don't drop a guy like that even if he plays bad in 10 matches in a row because he's on his peak and it's only a bad patch. But you can't treat the guy that is in the middle of his improvement curve the same way.

Also I said in a previous post the things I disagree with Mou, but didn't say the ones I agree and that I've seen others disagreeing. I support Iva in the team 100%, I think our pivot can be improved with the players we have, improving the philosophy and also working closely with Mikel and Ramires who I believe can still learn a trick or two and improve technically. Oscar naturally drops deeper, so he'll make up for some lack of quality in the pass and in the vision in our midfield even if he plays as a #10. Don't get me wrong, I would have signed a better DM/CM but I think what we have is workable. Every team has an area where they aren't the best in the world, so let ours be there until van Ginkel grows and improves and obviously I agree with Oscar being in our #10. Until Mata recovers his form, the spot is Oscar's for the take. I don't want Oscar playing in the wings or in the pivot, he belongs in the #10 and the only situation I see him moving is to the bench when/if Mata becomes a better option. I don't know if Mourinho will play Mata in the wing or if he plans to move Oscar there once Mata is 100% sharp again. If it's the latter he'll have a hill to climb because Oscar has to improve a lot to play there... right now he can't. Or as someone pointed out maybe Mourinho wants Mata to be what Oscar is now - only that improved because he's more creative - and then work on Oscar's own growth and move him to the pivot. I'll cry when this days arrives (if it does) although on early days I supported the idea. But Mourinho isn't here to make the players play where I want them to play or where they want to play, but to find where they can be more useful to the team. I'll support him whatever his plan is about Oscar in the future once Mata is ready to reclaim his position.

I don't think Eden can't deal with being benched.

I think the problem with Eden is more that we don't have a system and clear patterns in the final third. The fact that Eden and Mata clicked so well together is because they have great understanding and are reacting quickly to the moves of each other. they are like two great jazz musicians than can improvise to whatever the other is doing but still needs a basic structure to know what the rest of the band will be doing.

And It's not like the other wingers and offensive players have been on fire.

His problem is more than he is playing blind now, not knowing what the others are doing and is frustrated and doesn't react well to that.

The fact that he was much better under Benitez, is that we had a system in place, know what basic tasks he had to do and could express himself more as he had much more confidence in the system, freeing his mind, more purpose on his actions, a clear idea of what he was trying to do when running with the ball.

Under Benitez, it was the best of both world, classic structure with enough flexibility to allow some improvisation.

[TrippingStep 336]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2428890/Rafa-Benitez-insists-Chelsea-outcast-David-Luiz-world-class-managed-properly-swipe-Jose-Mourinho.html

Another one that so far has shown some frustration during the games, like some rash fouling, angry running forward with the ball because pissed off by lack of clear pattern in the movements of players in front of him.

Last year he did so less often with Benitez, when moving forward it was more integrated in the system, he would move forward to open an angle of pass and freeing a man on the side.

Benitez loved Juan Mata, finding him the perfect pro, and doesn’t understand Mourinho’s distrust of the player. Nor can he fathom the continued scapegoating of David Luiz. “He’s one of the best central defenders in the world — because he has everything. You just have to manage him properly,” Benitez says. “I don’t see too many better in the air. I don’t see too many quicker and faster than him. I don’t see too many technically better. Tactically, he is much better than the rest of the players around him.” The last remark would not please John Terry who, backed by another senior player, argued with Benitez during a training ground inquest. Luiz spoke up for Benitez. When Benitez recalls, warmly, that “the relationship with the players, the majority of them it was fantastic, they were working very hard,” it’s the likes of Luiz, Mata, Ramires, Eden Hazard, Oscar and Cesar Azpilicueta that are at the front of his mind.

A bit of his interview with Jonathan Northcroft in the sunday times.

Doesn't surprise me as they were the players that reacted very well to the changes and improve the way we were playing under him.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

I don't think Eden can't deal with being benched.

I think the problem with Eden is more that we don't have a system and clear patterns in the final third. The fact that Eden and Mata clicked so well together is because they have great understanding and are reacting quickly to the moves of each other. they are like two great jazz musicians than can improvise to whatever the other is doing but still needs a basic structure to know what the rest of the band will be doing.

And It's not like the other wingers and offensive players have been on fire.

His problem is more than he is playing blind now, not knowing what the others are doing and is frustrated and doesn't react well to that.

The fact that he was much better under Benitez, is that we had a system in place, know what basic tasks he had to do and could express himself more as he had much more confidence in the system, freeing his mind, more purpose on his actions, a clear idea of what he was trying to do when running with the ball.

Under Benitez, it was the best of both world, classic structure with enough flexibility to allow some improvisation.

Hazard's role will become clear soon. If you notice now he gets into the spaces in the box in dangerous positions, when eto pulls the center backs to the left (should have scored against basel twice)

The problem he is having is that the ball is not given to him when facing the opponents, it is only given to him when backing the opponents so its difficult to dribble that way(unless your drogba ) By the time he turns two people rush him and take the ball.

When our players all understand their roles, he'll get the ball facing the opposition more often and he'll score even more goals this season (once he improves his finishing of course). There is a plan for hazard, sooner or later we'll see it clearly.

[Special Juan 27,111]

That interview with Redknapp

Jose keeps owning people.

[EBH 283]

So who would you bring in to replace Jose?

I am not saying sack Mourinho now. I am saying if Mata say he wants to leave, then give Mourinho the choice. Play Mata or leave. If he still does not want to use one of the best players in Premier League, then he can go.

[mediator 2,026]

Hazard's role will become clear soon. If you notice now he gets into the spaces in the box in dangerous positions, when eto pulls the center backs to the left (should have scored against basel twice)

The problem he is having is that the ball is not given to him when facing the opponents, it is only given to him when backing the opponents so its difficult to dribble that way(unless your drogba ) By the time he turns two people rush him and take the ball.

When our players all understand their roles, he'll get the ball facing the opposition more often and he'll score even more goals this season (once he improves his finishing of course). There is a plan for hazard, sooner or later we'll see it clearly.

You are right, Mata sees when Hazard gets into the spaces, Oscar can't yet.

[Barbara 15,149]

I wish there was the option "stop the bullshit or leave the forum", but there isn't, so yeah, not everything in life is fair...

[Special Juan 27,111]

Some of the posts in here are nothing short of laughable.

[iceboy 992]

(Your finger shows us the way)

That's it.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

That interview with Redknapp

Jose keeps owning people.

LOL, he then went on and owned Guilet a few minutes later in his post-match PC

I really liked his interview with CTV after the match. It really tells you along which lines Jose is thinking. He said that our problem in the offense that the three behind the striker are still not good at creating spaces with their movement and that that needs time to come so for now what we should work on is exploit the spaces the opposition has directly after they lose the ball. He also said "Of course, I don't know, of course" when asked if he knows what his best team is at the moment. Several members have said that but it's good to hear that that is the case from Jose himself.

He also touched on a matter that has been overlooked when the "crisis" was being discussed and that is the ability of our mostly young players to deal with defeat and how they react to pressure. When asked what he said at half that the game changed so much, he answered that he made sure that he was very calm and pragmatic with the players because the squad is not ready for offensive speech and criticism when they are losing.

EDIT: Here's the interview I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Md-n_1HUs

[Special Juan 27,111]

LOL, he then went on and owned Guilet a few minutes later in his post-match PC

I really liked his interview with CTV after the match. It really tells you along which lines Jose is thinking. He said that our problem in the offense that the three behind the striker are still not good at creating spaces with their movement and that that needs time to come so for now what we should work on is exploit the spaces the opposition has directly after they lose the ball. He also said "Of course, I don't know, of course" when asked if he knows what his best team is at the moment. Several members have said that but it's good to hear that that is the case from Jose himself.

He also touched on a matter that has been overlooked when the "crisis" was being discussed and that is the ability of our mostly young players to deal with defeat and how they react to pressure. When asked what he said at half that the game changed so much, he answered that he made sure that he was very calm and pragmatic with the players because the squad is not ready for offensive speech and criticism when they are losing.

I agree, both interviews were very meticulous and some what in depth in his explanation to us and the two lads.

I can totally see what Jose is saying but I am left baffled by people who think he isn't the right manager for us and also do not listen to what he is actually saying regarding who we are and what we are trying to achieve.

People are over looking the fact the age and inexperience of some of our young kids that have been allowed to be blooded already by Jose, hence the calm dressing room approach.

[.Cee 50]

I am not saying sack Mourinho now. I am saying if Mata say he wants to leave, then give Mourinho the choice. Play Mata or leave. If he still does not want to use one of the best players in Premier League, then he can go.

:lol2: You're funny.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I agree, both interviews were very meticulous and some what in depth in his explanation to us and the two lads.

I can totally see what Jose is saying but I am left baffled by people who think he isn't the right manager for us and also do not listen to what he is actually saying regarding who we are and what we are trying to achieve.

People are over looking the fact the age and inexperience of some of our young kids that have been allowed to be blooded already by Jose, hence the calm dressing room approach.

I think we're lucky that Jose has been this transparent about everything since he arrived. I mean what other manager would come out and spend so much time trying to explain in great detail what he is trying to do and what is the philosophy he is trying to implement. He spent 12 minutes on Sky alone after the match on Saturday.

[Special Juan 27,111]

I think we're lucky that Jose has been this transparent about everything since he arrived. I mean what other manager would come out and spend so much time trying to explain in great detail what he is trying to do and what is the philosophy he is trying to implement. He spent 12 minutes on Sky alone after the match on Saturday.

Yes because air heads like Jamie Redknapp think Mata is the be all and end all when it's actually a whole team thing. If the people like Redknapp, Gullit, Merson et al care to listen to Jose they will understand what he is saying, but I think that might be a little difficult for them, you know to actually listen.

These people sit in their ivory tower, just like the press and I am sure they just spout the first thing that enters their head without a grain of thought.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Yes because air heads like Jamie Redknapp think Mata is the be all and end all when it's actually a whole team thing. If the people like Redknapp, Gullit, Merson et al care to listen to Jose they will understand what he is saying, but I think that might be a little difficult for them, you know to actually listen.

These people sit in their ivory tower, just like the press and I am sure they just spout the first thing that enters their head without a grain of thought.

I don't think it's about listening but about what sells and what gets high ratings. They need drama to get viewers so they create it.

[TrippingStep 336]

LOL, he then went on and owned Guilet a few minutes later in his post-match PC

I really liked his interview with CTV after the match. It really tells you along which lines Jose is thinking. He said that our problem in the offense that the three behind the striker are still not good at creating spaces with their movement and that that needs time to come so for now what we should work on is exploit the spaces the opposition has directly after they lose the ball. He also said "Of course, I don't know, of course" when asked if he knows what his best team is at the moment. Several members have said that but it's good to hear that that is the case from Jose himself.

He also touched on a matter that has been overlooked when the "crisis" was being discussed and that is the ability of our mostly young players to deal with defeat and how they react to pressure. When asked what he said at half that the game changed so much, he answered that he made sure that he was very calm and pragmatic with the players because the squad is not ready for offensive speech and criticism when they are losing.

EDIT: Here's the interview I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Md-n_1HUs

But it has always been his gameplan during the years to exploit spaces when the opposition loses the ball.

And his critics have always said that his teams were not very creative when his teams had to dictate the play against teams sitting deep. More a waiting and attrition game than great quick intricate passing game.

It's nothing new. Just look at all the game of his teams when playing good team, defensive, rough play and quick counters or long balls.

I don't understand how you expect that we won't be in scrappy games many times when in his first chelsea period, even with the world class players and the abundance of great midfielders, they were many scrappy games.

And that's why I'm not a fan of Mourinho and that after the pre-season games and the first game that I was not surprised we were struggling to be really dangerous when the other team let us the ball.