The Mourinho Thread

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

When is Jose's press conference for tomorrow night's game??

Someone mentioned in another thread that it will be by 5pm UK time

[robsblubot 3,502]

Players in our squad lacking balls? Well it's your boy David Luiz for one. That's why we have to overplay the back four, because Luiz can't be trusted (something that everyone except his fan club now realises). He doesn't show up against the smaller teams (a term his fan club love to use).

Fortunately we're actually developing players into men who will step up for our club.

As for the big players at other clubs, look no further than Toure and Suarez. As Muzchap alluded to the lack of a proper striker kills so much of what we try to do.

What else is to discuss about Luiz? He'll be gone in the summer to either Bayern, PSG, or Barca... hopefully not to another PL club... you and Jose don't fancy him, I and others do. Won't be wearing my boots when he does leave for around 30m though - nice amount of cash for such a terrible defender.

BTW, I think you were right when you suggested (on a diff thread) that he's been saving himself for the world cup and I also agree it's a pretty shitty thing to do. Still, merely comparing the intensity level of his game between this season and last would indeed point to that.

I specifically wrote that I do understand the point Jose made - it was quite clear. Lee Cattermole has lots of balls and he's still an awful player.

Now, the important discussion here is the one I'm trying to have: what kind of team is Jose trying to build and whether the type of player he fancies would indeed give us the edge we need. Once again, I look to City and Liverpool (and Arsenal) and the type of players they got are not the type of players Jose says he needs and doesn't have.

I question whether he's right. Because, like I said, the other top teams in England, including the ones sitting above us in the standings, also lack the qualities he and you keep getting at. Liverpool and attacking side with players of even questionable character. While City is a possession side.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Lee Cattermole has lots of balls and he's still an awful player.

No he doesn't. He's a little scrote, a lot like Joey Barton. Don't confuse rank stupidity and recklessness for 'balls'.

If you want balls then how about someone like Daniele De Rossi? A player who doesn't ever duck a fight, never gives less than his all and is a real leader of men.

Not someone who 'is saving himself for the World Cup' (as you put it) at the expense of his teammates, the supporters and his employer.

[robsblubot 3,502]

No he doesn't. He's a little scrote, a lot like Joey Barton. Don't confuse rank stupidity and recklessness for 'balls'.

If you want balls then how about someone like Daniele De Rossi? A player who doesn't ever duck a fight, never gives less than his all and is a real leader of men.

Not someone who 'is saving himself for the World Cup' (as you put it) at the expense of his teammates, the supporters and his employer.

I'm very confused, so you apparently define quality/talent solely by guts/balls/leadership. That's very odd... Kinda implies the Brazilian sides who have won the world cup 5 times were more gutsy than their opponents... than England in 2002. That England lost to Argentina in the WC back then, because Argentina players had more guts, or perhaps because Maradona was more driven, rather than the obvious answer which is that talent was the reason.

Teams have to strike a balance between guts, leadership, and talent. Some managers tend to lean one way or another. Jose goes for the mental qualities, where Guardiola for technique (passing). Regardless, saying you need a bunch of leaders to beat Crystal Palace in their domain is kinda crazy because it implies Bayern and Barcelona would lose there.

My guess is that City are going to go there keep the football for 90 minutes and beat them - no heroics needed.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm very confused, so you apparently define quality/talent solely by guts/balls/leadership.

No I don't.

Jose goes for the mental qualities, where Guardiola for technique (passing).

It's actually quite impressive how little you actually understand football. Guardiola's sides aren't just good at passing. That's such a ridiculously naive view that suggests you've never actually played (maybe even watched) football.

A pass is when the ball is kicked from one player to another. Now for the ball to reach that player it has to be accurate, but the player also has to be in space and working for 90 minutes to continually find space and be available for the pass is incredibly hard. It takes determination (guts/balls) to push yourself like that which is part of the reason Guardiola's sides had questions about burnout raised about them.

Allied to that his sides press insanely hard when they lose possession (that first 7 seconds after losing the ball) which only adds to their workload, so to say that he favours technique is ridiculous. His sides are some of the hardest working sides you'll find in world football which is why he places such an emphasis on training and training camps in particular.

Equally to suggest Mourinho goes simply for the mental is overly-simplistic. His tactics require a huge level of concentration and anticipation but also an incredibly high level of precision when making breaks (look at Madrid's breaks that frequently involved Ronaldo or our own breaks against Galatasaray or Arsenal - precision, pace and concentration combined).

But yes....Guardiola does like passing.

[HD3D 1,038]

Benitez recent comments on Mourinho http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2012941-rafael-benitez-slams-jose-mourinho-in-new-facts-rant-at-chelsea-boss

Mourinho talks a lot about a lot of people, but I prefer to talk about facts. At Liverpool, with a squad half of the value of Chelsea, we twice knocked his Chelsea side out of the Champions League.

Later, with the most expensive squad at Real Madrid, he did nothing in the Champions League.
Now he says if there is an offer of hundreds of millions for (Eden) Hazard and Oscar, maybe he can build a strong squad to win something.

The fat lunatic seems to have lost the last bit of sanity he had now. He doesn't seem to understand that Mourinho didn't mean it literally when he said he'd sell Oscar and Hazard for 300m lol.

He talks about "facts", well let's talk about facts:

- He knocked Chelsea out of the 2005 CL by robbing us with a goal that didn't exist. He eventually went on to win that Champions League, which means, hadn't it been for that referee mistake, the title would have likely been ours.

- The second time he eliminated Mourinho's Chelsea from the CL was on penalties. What a tactical genius you are Rafa!

- Doesn't mention a single word about how Jose repeatedly spanked him in the league, having gone on to 5 victories in a row over his Liverpool side and finishing 37 points(!) above him in the 04/05 league.

- Mocks Mourinho for "doing nothing" at the Champions League with a valuable Real Madrid squad (even though he reached the semi-finals 3 out of 3 times despite Real Madrid not being able to do so since 2003, thus showing remarkable improvement), yet doesn't mention a single word about his utter failure at 2011 Inter Milan, a team that had won the treble with Mourinho just 1 season before.

I wonder if Jose will blast him in the next press conference. He certainly has the arguments on his side.

[BloodIsBlue 291]

Benitez wins the Champion's League once, with a ghost goal none the less, and he thinks he is somebody.

[robsblubot 3,502]

No I don't.

It's actually quite impressive how little you actually understand football. Guardiola's sides aren't just good at passing. That's such a ridiculously naive view that suggests you've never actually played (maybe even watched) football.

A pass is when the ball is kicked from one player to another. Now for the ball to reach that player it has to be accurate, but the player also has to be in space and working for 90 minutes to continually find space and be available for the pass is incredibly hard. It takes determination (guts/balls) to push yourself like that which is part of the reason Guardiola's sides had questions about burnout raised about them.

Allied to that his sides press insanely hard when they lose possession (that first 7 seconds after losing the ball) which only adds to their workload, so to say that he favours technique is ridiculous. His sides are some of the hardest working sides you'll find in world football which is why he places such an emphasis on training and training camps in particular.

Equally to suggest Mourinho goes simply for the mental is overly-simplistic. His tactics require a huge level of concentration and anticipation but also an incredibly high level of precision when making breaks (look at Madrid's breaks that frequently involved Ronaldo or our own breaks against Galatasaray or Arsenal - precision, pace and concentration combined).

But yes....Guardiola does like passing.

So, we've come full circle to agree that David Luiz is a hell of a gutsy player and that's why he can pick up a pass.

I'm certainly not going to enter this childish discussion about who knows more...

There is really no point in discussing any further as we don't agree in the most fundamental things. Technique is Technique! You always go back to the mental aspects as if they were the only ones. There are and have been thousands of gutless footballers who were/are great players.

I’ve watched Brazil beat England in 2002 world cup with Ronaldinho and Kleberson in midfield, while England had Scholes and Beckham there. Battle of determination or talent?

Once again, you only see one aspect of the game, while there are 3: Mental, physical, and technique

Really, this is a very basic discussion… we can argue about which one is the most important one, but it’s silly not to acknowledge there are more than one.

Good discussion here:

http://andagain.websitetoolbox.com/post/TacticalTechnicalPhysicalMental-5832408

"Technique refers to a player's "ability to manipulate the ball". For field players, technique includes dribbling, receiving, passing, shooting, heading, and more."

I'd add the most important of all: first touch - very difficult to execute anything without having control of the football. If it takes too long for you to control the football (multiple touches) it gives your opponents time to close you down.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

It's 21 shots not 21 chances. Big difference. Maybe 2 chances created - Schurrle (counter) and Hazard's chance that's all. The team looked lost in attack - trying long balls very often

We played 41 long balls; 11 more than Crystal Palace - a team managed by Toni Pulis!!!

[Muzchap 8,966]

Here's players that have played for Chelsea recently that define Guts:

- Terry

- Lampard

- Drogba

- Essien (pre-injury)

- Ballack

- Zola

- Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (spelling? Been a long time since I wrote that)

- Cech

- Ed de Goey (spelling - see jimmy comment)

- Wise

- Le Saux

- Vialli

- Flo (massively underrated)

- Poyet

- Makalele (Legend!)

- Ferrer (Albert)

- Dan Petrescu

- DiMatteo

- Gudjohnsen (90% last season here he tailed off a bit)

That's enough for now... These players gave everything the minute they stepped across the white line, until the Final Whistle...

We used to have some amazing Strikers - who gave everything fr the club - now I'm struggling to find one! Even with summer signings, we need a 'worker'.

As @The only place to be suggested - Peps teams work hard to create space - we don't at the moment and that WILL change...

We need some dead wood shipped out in the summer and some strategic investments and we will be good for 14/15 Title

[Barbara 15,149]

I had no idea Mourinho said the team had no balls when I've written some of my last posts claiming exactly the same with other words (actually I've said as much in many posts even before this match)

I've been talking about this team having a few mentally weak players for a while now. What else would explain 5 losses prior to nine UCL matches? They can't focus. They're weak because they're still young and not experienced in those things. It's not their fault although Mourinho should be able to identify which ones are really lacking a winning and clutch character and the ones that are still under development.

@Strike might remember better than anyone that I was bitching about Mourinho's tactics prior the match and early on only 10 minutes into the game. He made mistakes, that were supposed to be fixed when Oscar came in, but while we improved we were still heartless and toothless. How many of those matches we lost points to weaker sides were because we were exactly that - heartless and toothless? And how is that Mourinho's fault?

If I was bitching about his tactics before and early in the match, I'm bitching now too, but two wrongs don't make one right. So just because he's made a mistake it doesn't mean the team is faultless. That team should have beaten CP, end of it. Mourinho wasn't playing. Hazard - completely anonymous (as usual in some matches before UCL games); Schurrle lost, Torres useless, Lamps terrible, Luiz providing stupid long passes and long distance shots. It was all a mess because yeah, only the defenders seemed to have put their hearts there and personally I've complained about it a few times this season - even in matches we turned around in the second. And then that's another thing. They've got accommodated. They got used to getting things around in the second, but CP also took levels up in the second and were deserving of the victory.

So yeah, I agree with all of you who said Mourinho made a mistake with a 4-3-3 against Palace.

I also agree with all of you who saw only our defensive players giving their hearts and blood in the pitch. They're paid tons of money, they should at least do that, regardless of how well or bad they are technically at the precise moment.

I also agree we have noticeable mentality issues with many of our players. They can't capitalize before UCL matches, they don't focus and work hard enough against smaller sides. They're weak characters - in some cases that's okay because they're young, but some of them may lack a winning spirit and I've said it many times in this thread in the past months that Mourinho doesn't tolerate those. He'll try to teach them those things, but those who are this way because of their own character and not because of their inexperience have their days counted at the Bridge. I won't miss them no matter how talented they are or not. I don't know who those guys are because I'm not there, I'm not working with him and I can't predict the future. But if there are any they'll be leaving at the end of the next season, if not in the next winter window.

[robdog 2,084]

Here's players that have played for Chelsea recently that define Guts:

- Terry

- Lampard

- Drogba

- Essien (pre-injury)

- Ballack

- Zola

- Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (spelling? Been a long time since I wrote that)

- Cech

- Ed de Goey (spelling - see jimmy comment)

- Wise

- Le Saux

- Vialli

- Flo (massively underrated)

- Poyet

- Makalele (Legend!)

- Ferrer (Albert)

- Dan Petrescu

- DiMatteo

- Gudjohnsen (90% last season here he tailed off a bit)

If you have Poyet, then you can add Geremi, Melchiot & Super Mario Stanić. All had some damn good moments in Blue.

[Jase 43,479]

Mourinho looks to be his 'happy' self once more..

[Jase 43,479]

Chelsea's José Mourinho wary of threat posed by the nouveaux riches of PSG

[Strike 7,217]

We played 41 long balls; 11 more than Crystal Palace - a team managed by Toni Pulis!!!

wow. team really looked lost

[HD3D 1,038]

Luiz played 41 long balls; 11 more than Crystal Palace - a team managed by Toni Pulis!!!

I think that's what you meant lol

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I think that's what you meant lol

When a team plays that many long balls, then you can't possibly pin it on one guy. It means that the front 6 did not make nearly enough movement and did not make themselves available to receive the ball.

[robsblubot 3,502]

When a team plays that many long balls, then you can't possibly pin it on one guy. It means that the front 6 did not make nearly enough movement and did not make themselves available to receive the ball.

indeed as it is difficult to pass the football to a player nearby when there isn't anyone nearby, at least not open. Now, that goes into the quality of the passer too: how precise can he pass? Can he pass into space, where his teammate might get to before the opponent? Can he, with his own movement, open up spaces for his teammates? Like Messi and Iniesta do all the time?

Luiz was actually playing well and connecting his (short) passes until he got that knock (check the stats); from then on it went downhill and he was indeed crap. Perhaps (prob) it is what Jose alluded to: that a player must have the mentality to withstand physical punishment imposed by these small sides in the PL. I couldn't agree more, but it's very difficult (as in expensive) to find 11 rounded players who are strong in all areas.

BTW, John Terry may consistently show the right determination, but he was also crap, but for a different reason. IMO he has had poor games lately, but not as bad as scoring an own goal out of nothing. And this drop of form stems from the physical aspect of his game. At 33 he can no longer play twice a week. Even more so for Lampard who once could cope with this type of physicality. That's where "wanting" bad enough just does not cut it; when your legs no longer follow your thoughts. people around here will understand this as soon as they turn 40 like me.