The Mourinho Thread

[Styles 9,790]

Teams are composed of individual contributions. Of course it's a tactic, as is asking a player to make a pass. What Hazard is asked to do is based on what his skillset allows him to.

That's utter twaddle. There's clear patterns of movement and to suggest otherwise is simply an attempt to impugn the tactical nous of Jose. Breaking down teams isn't easy though. The 11 players Palace put out yesterday are all professional sportsmen with pride and desire. Expecting us just to roll them over is naive.

You don't have to agree with it, but I'm not suggesting Torres should've done anything more than push himself to make it into the six-yard box for a ball. It's not the first time he's failed to do that and it won't be the last, but until we have someone who can do that we'll always struggle.

But if you don't think that overlapping run from Azpi wasn't a designed tactic then it's probably best to just agree to disagree.

Hazard's skillet doesn't include 'beat 8 players and score a goal or make a chance'. You're giving him too much credit if you think it does.

Yeah it'd be naive of me to suggest we roll over teams like Palace but I've done nothing of the sort. I'm suggesting we should look to have enough ideas to at least create chances and know how to manage games that pan out this way.

Torres is a crap but yesterday was more of a systemic and tactical issue than anything else in my opinion. Costa or whoever will struggle to score goals in this team. A better striker would just be more efficient with the scraps he's given, he won't single-handedly improve how the team functions or develop our play beyond what it is.

[Henrique 9,133]

Since Mourinho returned, we have a lot of people in this forum with hypercritical views towards our own players. The reason why is very simple: Mourinho is a GOD, so if you get bad results, its the players fault. We already have some people saying Liverpool, Arsenal and Borussia have better squads, and that speaks loud.

After Villa defeat, I thought we played well, and I had positive opinions about that game, but yesterday it was a different history. Mourinho GOT IT WRONG, from the beginning to finish. His selection was awful, and please, dont tell me it was the same team that played against Arsenal. Crystal palace is a differet team, with a different approach.

Matic-Luiz-Lampard-Hazard-Schurle

Someone expected a different game with this kind of midfield? He said we failed to convert our opportunities in the 1st half. Bullshit. I think we created one single chance in the first 45 minutes, the one that Schurle missed. What I have to say about his subs? Can anyone please tell me exactly what he was thinking with his 4-1-3-2 formation? Ba+Torres upfront? All he got was letting Crystal Palace create 5 chances to score the 2nd goal.

But, at the end of the day, the reason is lack of balls, and no surprise, we have some people buying that excuse.

[duo11bluecl 207]

Since Mourinho returned, we have a lot of people in this forum with hypercritical views towards our own players. The reason why is very simple: Mourinho is a GOD, so if you get bad results, its the players fault. We already have some people saying Liverpool, Arsenal and Borussia have better squads, and that speaks loud.

After Villa defeat, I thought we played well, and I had positive opinions about that game, but yesterday it was a different history. Mourinho GOT IT WRONG, from the beginning to finish. His selection was awful, and please, dont tell me it was the same team that played against Arsenal. Crystal palace is a differet team, with a different approach.

Matic-Luiz-Lampard-Hazard-Schurle

Someone expected a different game with this kind of midfield? He said we failed to convert our opportunities in the 1st half. Bullshit. I think we created one single chance in the first 45 minutes, the one that Schurle missed. What I have to say about his subs? Can anyone please tell me exactly what he was thinking with his 4-1-3-2 formation? Ba+Torres upfront? All he got was letting Crystal Palace create 5 chances to score the 2nd goal.

But, at the end of the day, the reason is lack of balls, and no surprise, we have some people buying that excuse.

And next season if we don't win the title and come close, we would be 'unlucky' but at least we got a foundation. I agree that Jose is still the man to lead us but the ways most people bend over to support him is quite frankly laughable. The same people that were bending it for Luiz and Torres for a long time before finally admitted it.

[duo11bluecl 207]

Hazard's skillet doesn't include 'beat 8 players and score a goal or make a chance'. You're giving him too much credit if you think it does.

Yeah it'd be naive of me to suggest we roll over teams like Palace but I've done nothing of the sort. I'm suggesting we should look to have enough ideas to at least create chances and know how to manage games that pan out this way.

Torres is a crap but yesterday was more of a systemic and tactical issue than anything else in my opinion. Costa or whoever will struggle to score goals in this team. A better striker would just be more efficient with the scraps he's given, he won't single-handedly improve how the team functions or develop our play beyond what it is.

Tbf Torres been shit under like 5 managers and even for Spain now so he is hopeless. No Costa really wouldn't, you should have seen Atletico games, they don't create 10 chances per game but more like 3-4 but he usually always take them with the exception of a few misses. That Torres chip summed it up really.

[darrus 422]

Matic-Luiz-Lampard-Hazard-Schurle

Someone expected a different game with this kind of midfield?

Are you for real?

This midfield by the names and their skillset should be beating CP right, left and center even when all the players are on their off day. Yes, in this exact formation.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Hazard's skillet doesn't include 'beat 8 players and score a goal or make a chance'. You're giving him too much credit if you think it does.

Hazard has never been asked to beat 8 players, nor has he ever beaten 8 players in one dribble to my knowledge. He is however tasked with creating chances and contributing towards goals in much the same way Cech (the one with the gloves) is tasked with handling the ball in the goal area.

Yeah it'd be naive of me to suggest we roll over teams like Palace but I've done nothing of the sort. I'm suggesting we should look to have enough ideas to at least create chances and know how to manage games that pan out this way.

We did create chances. Tactics are nothing without execution though.

Torres is a crap but yesterday was more of a systemic and tactical issue than anything else in my opinion. Costa or whoever will struggle to score goals in this team. A better striker would just be more efficient with the scraps he's given, he won't single-handedly improve how the team functions or develop our play beyond what it is.

Here I completely disagree. Costa's movement and the way he occupies defenders would create more space for the players operating behind him. Torres simply doesn't force defences to do anything they aren't expecting. His runs off the ball are unintelligent and often lack the commitment to sell a defender.

But again, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Are you for real?

Sadly I think he might be.

[Styles 9,790]

Tbf Torres been shit under like 5 managers and even for Spain now so he is hopeless. No Costa really wouldn't, you should have seen Atletico games, they don't create 10 chances per game but more like 3-4 but he usually always take them with the exception of a few misses. That Torres chip summed it up really.

I've seen a few Atletico games and they are what Mourinho is building us towards which is a very hardworking and efficient team. I think their tactics work better in Spain where there is a culture of teams trying to play and being open. We don't have that luxury in this league; teams are more than content to stick 11 men behind the ball even at home. We need more in our locker than pressing and counter-attacking.

[dee25 1,044]

Hazard's skillet doesn't include 'beat 8 players and score a goal or make a chance'. You're giving him too much credit if you think it does.

Yeah it'd be naive of me to suggest we roll over teams like Palace but I've done nothing of the sort. I'm suggesting we should look to have enough ideas to at least create chances and know how to manage games that pan out this way.

Torres is a crap but yesterday was more of a systemic and tactical issue than anything else in my opinion. Costa or whoever will struggle to score goals in this team. A better striker would just be more efficient with the scraps he's given, he won't single-handedly improve how the team functions or develop our play beyond what it is.

Really couldn't have said it better myself. Absolutely spot on.

I think most reasonable fans all appreciate the work Mourinho has done this season but to argue that there aren't any flaws in the way Mourinho sets up the team at times and that the reason we struggle against sides like Palace is down to the striker or lack of grit and has nothing to do with our over reliance on counter-attacking is just.....pure fantasy. It's fantasy.

You're better off arguing with a brick wall imo.

[Eligius 121]

Actually, now that I think about.

Had we played 4-2-3-1 with Mikel and Oscar and dropped Lampard and Luiz and got the same result, the people on this board would of said Mourinho got it wrong as well and how we should of started Luiz and Lampard that game...

[Styles 9,790]

Hazard has never been asked to beat 8 players, nor has he ever beaten 8 players in one dribble to my knowledge. He is however tasked with creating chances and contributing towards goals in much the same way Cech (the one with the gloves) is tasked with handling the ball in the goal area.

We did create chances. Tactics are nothing without execution though.

Here I completely disagree. Costa's movement and the way he occupies defenders would create more space for the players operating behind him. Torres simply doesn't force defences to do anything they aren't expecting. His runs off the ball are unintelligent and often lack the commitment to sell a defender.

But again, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Sadly I think he might be.

Two clear chances in 90 minutes by my count. I do understand why supporters want a fantasy striker like Costa, we create so little that we need somebody that's really clinical.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Two clear chances in 90 minutes by my count. I do understand why supporters want a fantasy striker like Costa, we create so little that we need somebody that's really clinical.

It's a mistake to think strikers simply finish chances which is where I think your confusion comes from. They don't. When Drogba wasn't scoring in his first couple of seasons with us, he was creating chances for players around him. Watch the home leg against Bayern Munich in 2005 for a perfect example of this.

What we need is a striker who makes runs that draw defenders away from the player on the ball, to create space and holes for us to exploit and simply wrong-foot defenders. We need someone who just keeps defenders honest which neither Ba or Torres seems capable of. It's amazing that we're where we are right now and unsurprising that we struggled to score in certain games.

[Styles 9,790]

It's a mistake to think strikers simply finish chances which is where I think your confusion comes from. They don't. When Drogba wasn't scoring in his first couple of seasons with us, he was creating chances for players around him. Watch the home leg against Bayern Munich in 2005 for a perfect example of this.

What we need is a striker who makes runs that draw defenders away from the player on the ball, to create space and holes for us to exploit and simply wrong-foot defenders. We need someone who just keeps defenders honest which neither Ba or Torres seems capable of. It's amazing that we're where we are right now and unsurprising that we struggled to score in certain games.

Yup, it's taken the players a lot of balls, grit and determination to overcome such obvious shortcomings.

[Henrique 9,133]

For me, Mourinho failed to create a team. We dont have a pattern, we dont know whats our playing style, and at the end of the day Mourinho made some moves because, after all, he believed the team could win the league in a ugly way.

I really dont know how he can be happy with Ivanovic. A full back duties is more than defending. Ivanovic have almost zero attacking skills. Yesterday there was a moment when he was free to cross, had all the time in the world to make an assist, but his "cross" was a more of an long shoot than a cross.

We have Azi playing as a LB, he is doing really well, but guess what, he is a RB, he is better than Ivanovic, and I dont know how Cole can do worst as a LB, than Ivanovic is doing as a RB.

We dont know how our midfield look like. Matic-Ramires-Willian-Oscar-Hazard; Matic, Luiz, Ramires, Willian, Hazard; Matic, Luiz, Lampard, Schurle, Hazard; Matic, Lampard, Ramires, Oscar, Hazard. Some people might think it means Mourinho have a dynamic midfield, but its the opposite.

Despite all those changes, we dont a have a pattern, we dont have a playing style, the team usually waste 45 minutes with a slow start, and Mourinho end up moaning about the 3 chances the team missed during the match...but in football usually you have to create many chances to score one goal, if teams like Barcelona or Bayern scored in every opportunity they create, they would be scoring 20 goals in a match. Limited teams need to score, or "kill the game", with only 2 or 3 opportunities, because its the only way they know to victory.

When the team barely create, every single chance missed seems a huge deal. Yesterday in the 2nd half, there was only 1 great chance (the one Hazard missed), now its easy to say Hazard doesnt have the balls to "kill the game" when he has to, or its even more easy to blame Torres, but for me, one single chance in 45 minutes against Crystal Palace is not enough for a team fighting for the league.

[BloodIsBlue 291]

You guys have seriously never seen Jose sub in a second striker? The decision making of the players were poor. That formation should have scored and won the game. The decision making was poor and it got poorer once we conceded. Defenders were turning their backs to CP players; players especially Hazard were trying to dribbling infront of 5 men instead of dumping it over to Torres+Ba; we lost so many 50/50s; gambled with poor shots from distance as the clock ran down; and last but not least the elephants in the room Torres and Ba. We have thrived off standout performances from players like Hazard, Azpi, Terry, Cech and now Matic so when too many of them have an off day the whole team will.

[Styles 9,790]

For me, Mourinho failed to create a team. We dont have a pattern, we dont know whats our playing style, and at the end of the day Mourinho made some moves because, after all, he believed the team could win the league in a ugly way.

I really dont know how he can be happy with Ivanovic. A full back duties is more than defending. Ivanovic have almost zero attacking skills. Yesterday there was a moment when he was free to cross, had all the time in the world to make an assist, but his "cross" was a more of an long shoot than a cross.

We have Azi playing as a LB, he is doing really well, but guess what, he is a RB, he is better than Ivanovic, and I dont know how Cole can do worst as a LB, than Ivanovic is doing as a RB.

We dont know how our midfield look like. Matic-Ramires-Willian-Oscar-Hazard; Matic, Luiz, Ramires, Willian, Hazard; Matic, Luiz, Lampard, Schurle, Hazard; Matic, Lampard, Ramires, Oscar, Hazard. Some people might think it means Mourinho have a dynamic midfield, but its the opposite.

Despite all those changes, we dont a have a pattern, we dont have a playing style, the team usually waste 45 minutes with a slow start, and Mourinho end up moaning about the 3 chances the team missed during the match...but in football usually you have to create many chances to score one goal, if teams like Barcelona or Bayern scored in every opportunity they create, they would be scoring 20 goals in a match. Limited teams need to score, or "kill the game", with only 2 or 3 opportunities, because its the only way they know to victory.

When the team barely create, every single chance missed seems a huge deal. Yesterday in the 2nd half, there was only 1 great chance (the one Hazard missed), now its easy to say Hazard doesnt have the balls to "kill the game" when he has to, or its even more easy to blame Torres, but for me, one single chance in 45 minutes against Crystal Palace is not enough for a team fighting for the league.

And that only came about via a deflection.

[╫rue Blue 47]

Since Mourinho returned, we have a lot of people in this forum with hypercritical views towards our own players. The reason why is very simple: Mourinho is a GOD, so if you get bad results, its the players fault. We already have some people saying Liverpool, Arsenal and Borussia have better squads, and that speaks loud.

After Villa defeat, I thought we played well, and I had positive opinions about that game, but yesterday it was a different history. Mourinho GOT IT WRONG, from the beginning to finish. His selection was awful, and please, dont tell me it was the same team that played against Arsenal. Crystal palace is a differet team, with a different approach.

Matic-Luiz-Lampard-Hazard-Schurle

Someone expected a different game with this kind of midfield? He said we failed to convert our opportunities in the 1st half. Bullshit. I think we created one single chance in the first 45 minutes, the one that Schurle missed. What I have to say about his subs? Can anyone please tell me exactly what he was thinking with his 4-1-3-2 formation? Ba+Torres upfront? All he got was letting Crystal Palace create 5 chances to score the 2nd goal.

But, at the end of the day, the reason is lack of balls, and no surprise, we have some people buying that excuse.

yes, the match performance is very disapointing

but what make it worse for me, is what mourinho said at post match interview

he just said teams ONLY didnt have spirit, this is very very disapointing because this indicated he BLIND WHAT HE MISSING from his team

theres isnt coincidence, why our team struggling over and over against small pub team

he still didnt realise, there is something more to be concern and improve than just our spirit

and he even mention our ONLY single chance in 1st half by saying " yeah the match is hard, but we have some good chance ... in first half we didnt take"

really ?

[duo11bluecl 207]

I've seen a few Atletico games and they are what Mourinho is building us towards which is a very hardworking and efficient team. I think their tactics work better in Spain where there is a culture of teams trying to play and being open. We don't have that luxury in this league; teams are more than content to stick 11 men behind the ball even at home. We need more in our locker than pressing and counter-attacking.

The thing is sometime identity just can't be changed. For example imagine Barcelona playing counter attacking defensive football, just never going to happen no matter who the manager is. Imagine Real Madrid plays tiki taka, just doesn't happen. I think our identity is that we have and always will be a defensive team with great counter attacking, the days of us dominating entire match will just never come unless Pep becomes our manager and we start selling the likes of Mikel...etc for good.

[duo11bluecl 207]

You guys have seriously never seen Jose sub in a second striker? The decision making of the players were poor. That formation should have scored and won the game. The decision making was poor and it got poorer once we conceded. Defenders were turning their backs to CP players; players especially Hazard were trying to dribbling infront of 5 men instead of dumping it over to Torres+Ba; we lost so many 50/50s; gambled with poor shots from distance as the clock ran down; and last but not least the elephants in the room Torres and Ba. We have thrived off standout performances from players like Hazard, Azpi, Terry, Cech and now Matic so when too many of them have an off day the whole team will.

It doesn't matter if you put your best team out, you don't win if you don't have the right tactic. No one is questioning Jose's play selection or sub, all of that are fine but rather the TACTIC THAT HE IMPLEMENTED. And for the bold bit isn't that for all the teams?

For me, Mourinho failed to create a team. We dont have a pattern, we dont know whats our playing style, and at the end of the day Mourinho made some moves because, after all, he believed the team could win the league in a ugly way.

I really dont know how he can be happy with Ivanovic. A full back duties is more than defending. Ivanovic have almost zero attacking skills. Yesterday there was a moment when he was free to cross, had all the time in the world to make an assist, but his "cross" was a more of an long shoot than a cross.

We have Azi playing as a LB, he is doing really well, but guess what, he is a RB, he is better than Ivanovic, and I dont know how Cole can do worst as a LB, than Ivanovic is doing as a RB.

We dont know how our midfield look like. Matic-Ramires-Willian-Oscar-Hazard; Matic, Luiz, Ramires, Willian, Hazard; Matic, Luiz, Lampard, Schurle, Hazard; Matic, Lampard, Ramires, Oscar, Hazard. Some people might think it means Mourinho have a dynamic midfield, but its the opposite.

Despite all those changes, we dont a have a pattern, we dont have a playing style, the team usually waste 45 minutes with a slow start, and Mourinho end up moaning about the 3 chances the team missed during the match...but in football usually you have to create many chances to score one goal, if teams like Barcelona or Bayern scored in every opportunity they create, they would be scoring 20 goals in a match. Limited teams need to score, or "kill the game", with only 2 or 3 opportunities, because its the only way they know to victory.

When the team barely create, every single chance missed seems a huge deal. Yesterday in the 2nd half, there was only 1 great chance (the one Hazard missed), now its easy to say Hazard doesnt have the balls to "kill the game" when he has to, or its even more easy to blame Torres, but for me, one single chance in 45 minutes against Crystal Palace is not enough for a team fighting for the league.

You could win the league in an ugly way, it been proven before by Jose himself. I think the reason Dave is playing LB started after that Cole party scandal in Dec, Jose doesn't have anyone else to rely on so he just started to drop Cole to make a point(which is fine for me).

[Term-X 7,892]

We'll be scary in Mourinho's second season, as usual with him.

[duo11bluecl 207]

We'll be scary in Mourinho's second season, as usual with him.

Hope so, actually it is an expectation not hope. We really just HAVE TO BE or it would be consider a failure, that is how high the expectation is at this club.