The Mourinho Thread

[nullabletype 987]

When we win Jose takes the credit ,, when we lose its the players ,, the refs ,, the board ,, the FA and of course WOMEN not to mention climate change

Where do you get the first bit of that statement? How often after a good result does José pat himself on the back? He always praises his squad. Even when they're shit and we can all see it he praises most of them and blames individual errors.

When things are bad he loves and excuse, no doubt, but in typical fashion when he does blame himself, which he has done recently, it's ignored.

I don't see the point in giving him the rest of the season...the players seem to be getting worse game after game

I really thought the Arsenal result would kick start our season, but we haven't won any games since then...and looking at our upcoming fixtures, I'm kind of worried

There in lies the absurdity of football. The players aren't getting any better so sack the manager. That's not to say the manager is blameless but when they're on the pitch it is the players who need to play.

Time and time again clubs sack managers, the new guy comes in and there is a spell of good results only for the poor form to return. Rinse and repeat. Players get away with far too much.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

And that team did nothing in Europe & could never win back to back League titles. Counter attacking teams have a short shelf life.

Wenger's approach to the game changed. I think he foresaw a change in football with the 4-4-2 dying out, especially since Mourinho came in and destroyed the league. He adapted but it wasn't that successful. His team played amazing football at times but lacked the extra funds to push him teams to the limit. If the new stadium wasn't built and the funds were given to the first team, I fully believe that with the youth Wenger had, he would have built a dynasty with some of the extra players he could have brought in.

Now. Chelsea is in this same boat as Wenger and Arsenal in 2004. Mourinho tactics from that time have passed and are now a relic of that era. He needs to adapt to the changing environment. Football comes in cycles, when the 4-4-2 went out, defensive tactics came in. When the defensive mindset went out, tiki-taka replaced it. Now that tiki-taka is dying a new style is coming back in. It almost seems the old 4-4-2 is coming back into vogue.

RLC-Ramires 4-4-2 confirmed.

Need to get a striker good enough to play next to Costa though.

I do miss that Mourinho team of 2004, though, I'll be honest. Carvalho, Terry, Maka, Joe Cole, Robben, Gudjohnsen, Essien and Ashley Cole (2005) to name a few. Surely will be remembered as one of the best teams we've ever fielded.

[zolayes 14,489]

Wenger's approach to the game changed. I think he foresaw a change in football with the 4-4-2 dying out, especially since Mourinho came in and destroyed the league. He adapted but it wasn't that successful. His team played amazing football at times but lacked the extra funds to push him teams to the limit. If the new stadium wasn't built and the funds were given to the first team, I fully believe that with the youth Wenger had, he would have built a dynasty with some of the extra players he could have brought in.

Now. Chelsea is in this same boat as Wenger and Arsenal in 2004. Mourinho tactics from that time have passed and are now a relic of that era. He needs to adapt to the changing environment. Football comes in cycles, when the 4-4-2 went out, defensive tactics came in. When the defensive mindset went out, tiki-taka replaced it. Now that tiki-taka is dying a new style is coming back in. It almost seems the old 4-4-2 is coming back into vogue.

systems change but I still believe the old cliche "Attack is the best form of Defence"

[Stats 7,230]

To think of all the quality players we had who have excelled at other teams. KDB, Mata, Bertrand, Luis. Aah just so frustrating that Mourinho sold them. No other manager would have that mindset. He was so sure to declare Oscar as his no.10 and now Mourinho seems to have lost a lot of trust in him. Mata was such a fans favourite as well. KDB was considered surplus to requirements because he played bad on 2 games. All this goes on Jose. Not just the results and position we are in now that pisses me off about Jose. He has fucked our team over and done exactly what Wenger was known for. Strengthening our rivals. We had great players in our hands but let them go.

Actually have lost patience with him.

[Spike 12,049]

And that team did nothing in Europe & could never win back to back League titles. Counter attacking teams have a short shelf life.

They were up against an equally strong United team and Italy, Germany Spain in the 90s. United were a counter-attacking team, they won several back to back titles.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

He sold Filipe Luis, David Luiz, Lukaku, Mata, De Bruyne & refuses to play Loftus-Cheek, Baba or the horde of talented youngsters in the reserves. Claiming he has no options or the board doesn't back him is beyond laughable.

While our fans were bragging about net spend and what not I always maintained it was stupid the get rid of most those players.

Anyway, squad depth/quality or whatever is only 25% of the problem. We are 16th ffs not on the fringes of Top 4. It's mainly a coaching problem. AVB, Benitez, Scolari etc all the much maligned managers never had us playing like a Championship team. The table certainly doesn't lie in this instance.

[nullabletype 987]

TBH (to be honest) the players I don't particularly care for are:

Ivanovic

Mikel

Ramires

Falcao

Remy

Wilian

That is just me though.

On another personal note, the type of approach to the game I like is the approach made by Arsenal from about 98-03. Win the ball, pass up the field the in three or four passes, shoot. Some of you may remember Henry stating that the moment Viera (or anyone) won the ball, they would immediately think of how they can get the ball up to an attacking player, wether it be Anelka, Henry, Pires or Ljungberg. There was no ball retention nonsense, they attacked the moment they had possession. No player takes responsibility in this team, they are passive jackasses.

That is just the style I like. Kinda like how West Ham play right now (yes that bloody team).

Don't necessarily agree with that list of players but the approach is exactly what I want to see. Holding the ball is useless if nobody is going to do anything. Week in week out we watch teams just pick up the ball and run at us, that's what wee need to do. Just have a go. Our turnover from defence to attack is painfully slow and just allows the opposition to casually stroll back in to shape. It's useless.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

To think of all the quality players we had who have excelled at other teams. KDB, Mata, Bertrand, Luis. Aah just so frustrating that Mourinho sold them. No other manager would have that mindset. He was so sure to declare Oscar as his no.10 and now Mourinho seems to have lost a lot of trust in him. Mata was such a fans favourite as well. KDB was considered surplus to requirements because he played bad on 2 games. All this goes on Jose. Not just the results and position we are in now that pisses me off about Jose. He has fucked our team over and done exactly what Wenger was known for. Strengthening our rivals. We had great players in our hands but let them go.

Actually have lost patience with him.

Him selling them has me more upset than the results.

He came here to a solid young core, and basically fucked it off to bring in shit like Cuadrado and Falcao.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Him selling them has me more upset than the results.

He came here to a solid young core, and basically fucked it off to bring in shit like Cuadrado and Falcao.

Yeah when you put it like that...

[Gilvorak 3,734]

They were up against an equally strong United team and Italy, Germany Spain in the 90s. United were a counter-attacking team, they won several back to back titles.

No great teams play counter attacking football. Football has evolved beyond that. Madrid, PSG, Juventus, Bayern, Barca. None of the top teams play that style of football. Mourinho's still stuck in the 00's.

[Roquila 1,335]

I still can't get my head around how in the seven hells we sold KDB/Mata/Lukaku/Luis/Luiz/Bertrand/ and kept players like Mikel or Ivanovic.....

Mata is on a High. -Manchester United Player - 2nd in the PL

De Bruyne is scoring almost every game and is assisting alot. - Manchester City player - 1st in the PL.

Lukaku is scoring more than all our strikers combined. -Everton Player -7th in the PL

Luiz beat the crap out of us last season in the CL. -PSG Player.

Bertrand just won at Stamford Bridge 3-1 against us. -Southampton Player -9th in the PL.


Really Jose?

The Benitez year was such a bad season(club atmosphere wise) but we all knew that the future would be bright because we had so much young talent.

Down the drain. Back to square one.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Him selling them has me more upset than the results.

He came here to a solid young core, and basically fucked it off to bring in shit like Cuadrado and Falcao.

But but net spend though. Jose knows what he's doing, all of a sudden the same people stroking Jose's ego then are now changing their minds. We were set for the next 10 years with the work Emenalo did then Jose fucked it all up with his egoism.

Ancelotti, Pellegrini, van Gaal, Guardiola amongst others would've done wonders with that 12-13 squad.

[Clockwork 1,794]

Its really shame to call for manager head when the players are not performing. The thing is he is the best for this club, the most successful coach we have had and the same time is FAN of this club. This forum is moaning forum. every decision from the manager or the club always blla blla blla. WHY?

The board also should take the blame, they failed to bring our target during the summer.

Please be more serious and don't talk BS all the time (im not saying to you personally).

Let's support the club there is a lot of more matches to play and you never know what the future can bring us.

Tell me what would those transfers do at the current situation? Who are those transfers that he wanted?

Mouinho biggest failing is getting the best out of his players; almost every midfielder and forward has either stagnated or regressed at Chelsea. The frightening thing is that the longer our players have been exposed to Mou tactics and training the worse they have gotten.

Remember how good Matic was when he arrived? Damn it seems like a distant memory when he had that game against City and had prime Yaya in his pocket. Was a Lion when he came in, and literally the perfect DM he had everything? Now he got shamefully substituted as a sub.

Cesc in his first few months here was so good. Not just his assists but he was genuinely controlling the game. Always on the ball and always looking to receive the pass and passing forward. Now the game just passes by and he avoids the ball, and has been like this for most of last season too. Or Oscar how much promised he showed in his first first season, the boy has stagnated and I know him and many other players are better then they have showed under Mou.

How about the players who have left like KDB, Salah, Cuardado. They have been sensational since leaving Mou and his tactics.

It is honestly disheartening when Chelsea fans or oppositions take a swap at our players. Call Hazard overrated, Oscar shit, Cesc a fraud, Matic a poor mans Carraick. It is simply not true, under a friendlier attacking tactic and training they would be different players.

I really wish our players the best and it would be such a waste for them to continue under Mou. They deserve better.

it doesn't matter who we bring in you simply cannot over look this.

[Spike 12,049]

@Gilvorak,Another note should be made about that Arsenal team

97-98 - Winner

98-99 - Lost by 1 point

01-02 - Winner

02-03 - Lost by 5 points

03-04 - Winner

04-05 - Lost by 12 points

Aside from the 04-05 season, they could have very easily gone back to back. That is just hypotheticals though, they didn't at the end of the day. Just perspective.

No great teams play counter attacking football. Football has evolved beyond that. Madrid, PSG, Juventus, Bayern, Barca. None of the top teams play that style of football. Mourinho's still stuck in the 00's.

But isn't just about counter-atacking. That is just one facet of play. All those teams can counter-attack and will score a goal from few passes, but they can retain possession when necessary. This Chelsea team looks limp in attack, especially on the counter. I'm not saying that the entirety of the game should be countering but it is something that is needed. Being able to punish teams quickly from a single error is vital. Being flexible is the most important thing, I believe.

Also, it should be appreciated that the Bayern team that dominated their way through the 12-13 season under Heynckes played counter football.

[Reddish-Blue 2,702]

Where do you get the first bit of that statement? How often after a good result does José pat himself on the back? He always praises his squad. Even when they're shit and we can all see it he praises most of them and blames individual errors.

When things are bad he loves and excuse, no doubt, but in typical fashion when he does blame himself, which he has done recently, it's ignored.

There in lies the absurdity of football. The players aren't getting any better so sack the manager. That's not to say the manager is blameless but when they're on the pitch it is the players who need to play.

Time and time again clubs sack managers, the new guy comes in and there is a spell of good results only for the poor form to return. Rinse and repeat. Players get away with far too much.

It's a conundrum, you can sack the manager and hope for a change in results..or you can stick with the manager and end up like Arsenal/Liverpool, the consistent underachievers

[Muzchap 8,966]

Tell me what would those transfers do at the current situation? Who are those transfers that he wanted?

Mouinho biggest failing is getting the best out of his players; almost every midfielder and forward has either stagnated or regressed at Chelsea. The frightening thing is that the longer our players have been exposed to Mou tactics and training the worse they have gotten.

Remember how good Matic was when he arrived? Damn it seems like a distant memory when he had that game against City and had prime Yaya in his pocket. Was a Lion when he came in, and literally the perfect DM he had everything? Now he got shamefully substituted as a sub.

Cesc in his first few months here was so good. Not just his assists but he was genuinely controlling the game. Always on the ball and always looking to receive the pass and passing forward. Now the game just passes by and he avoids the ball, and has been like this for most of last season too. Or Oscar how much promised he showed in his first first season, the boy has stagnated and I know him and many other players are better then they have showed under Mou.

How about the players who have left like KDB, Salah, Cuardado. They have been sensational since leaving Mou and his tactics.

It is honestly disheartening when Chelsea fans or oppositions take a swap at our players. Call Hazard overrated, Oscar shit, Cesc a fraud, Matic a poor mans Carraick. It is simply not true, under a friendlier attacking tactic and training they would be different players.

I really wish our players the best and it would be such a waste for them to continue under Mou. They deserve better.

it doesn't matter who we bring in you simply cannot over look this.

100% this - hence why the players no longer want to play for him

[Jase 43,479]

Him selling them has me more upset than the results.

He came here to a solid young core, and basically fucked it off to bring in shit like Cuadrado and Falcao.

I can understand why people are upset we sold De Bruyne, Mata etc but let's be realistic for a moment. We are only clamouring for them now because we're doing shit and they are doing well in their respective teams. No one was crying out for them last season when we strolled to the title (and mind you, players like Mata hardly shone last season). I think the main issue here isn't really about selling those players. It's more gotta do with the quality of players we brought in to replace them. We bought duds and tossed them out 6-12 months later after realising they aren't actually good at all. The mess we're in right now has exposed the lack of quality players we have in the squad.

[nullabletype 987]

It's a conundrum, you can sack the manager and hope for a change in results..or you can stick with the manager and end up like Arsenal/Liverpool, the consistent underachievers

True enough.

But for me that's why I'd like to put the trust in the manager for now. If it continues then we can draw a line under it and say enough is enough, it didn't work. You don't need to do an Arsenal and give him nearly two decades. But sack José after a double winning season, 8 games in? Ridiculous.

[Iggy Doonican 4,187]

No great teams play counter attacking football. Football has evolved beyond that. Madrid, PSG, Juventus, Bayern, Barca. None of the top teams play that style of football. Mourinho's still stuck in the 00's.

Summed it up absolutely brilliant post.

[Stats 7,230]

I can understand why people are upset we sold De Bruyne, Mata etc but let's be realistic for a moment. We are only clamouring for them now because we're doing shit and they are doing well in their respective teams. No one was crying out for them last season when we strolled to the title (and mind you, players like Mata hardly shone last season). I think the main issue here isn't really about selling those players. It's more gotta do with the quality of players we brought in to replace them. We bought duds and tossed them out 6-12 months later after realising they aren't actually good at all. The mess we're in right now has exposed the lack of quality players we have in the squad.

People did. Even though we won the title, when it was Hazard who was mainly stepping up more than other players and Oscar went back to hiding again, many people were making it clear that KDB should be here. Not so much Mata, but KDB especially as he was always scoring or assisting if not both every week in the Bundesliga. Mata despite not being excellent last season still got into double figures with goals and that is considering one stage he struggled to get in the team. Mata was a fans favourite and one of our best players and while we got a big fee for him, his replacement is not as good and has not lived up to the hype Mourinho gave him which is more frustrating.