Graham Potter Thread

[Jype 6,398]

17 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Fofana is important now? that's a bit of a stretch eh.

Well of course he fucking is.

While his injury means he's still somewhat of an unknown variable when it comes to performing in a Chelsea shirt, not having him means the CB department is with a 100% certainty much worse than what Tuchel consistently had at his disposal, for example.

With no more Rüdiger, no more Christensen and Silva finally starting to look like his decline has begun are you seriously saying we haven't missed Fofana being available? If we still had all the CBs from last season I wouldn't be saying he's an important player without him proving it on the pitch first but when he's the key replacement for another important player who has left the club then isn't it pretty much a given that he is too?

And yeah, even if we ignore Fofana that still leaves Kante out for the entirety of Potter's managerial reign as well as James & Chilwell out for the last 12 games apart from James' brief appearance against Bournemouth when he got injured again. I'm just saying that when Tuchel had similar injury problems last season our form went out of the window as well and at least he still had Rüdiger to lock up the defense.

[robsblubot 3,595]

49 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

A manager that took a promoted team, coached up the talent they had while adding players that were not out of their small budget and getting them to the top of the table doesn't appeal to you? He was tipped to take over the English National team. I am really shocked at how much venom the guy has received.

Not enough for me no... many other managers doing impressive things in different leagues and PL proven is only relative given the striking differences between the top clubs and the smaller ones. NT means little these days as the top managers stay clear of.

19 minutes ago, Jype said:

Well of course he fucking is.

While his injury means he's still somewhat of an unknown variable when it comes to performing in a Chelsea shirt, not having him means the CB department is with a 100% certainty much worse than what Tuchel consistently had at his disposal, for example.

With no more Rüdiger, no more Christensen and Silva finally starting to look like his decline has begun are you seriously saying we haven't missed Fofana being available? If we still had all the CBs from last season I wouldn't be saying he's an important player without him proving it on the pitch first but when he's the key replacement for another important player who has left the club then isn't it pretty much a given that he is too?

And yeah, even if we ignore Fofana that still leaves Kante out for the entirety of Potter's managerial reign as well as James & Chilwell out for the last 12 games apart from James' brief appearance against Bournemouth when he got injured again. I'm just saying that when Tuchel had similar injury problems last season our form went out of the window as well and at least he still had Rüdiger to lock up the defense.

Fofona is a question mark at best, but agree that important for depth.

Agree to disagree on the rest there, because Tuchel had already lost Ruddier and Andreas in his last season (were they giving 100% the season before?). It's been discussed plenty around here. I myself, wrote that Klopp had similar issues when he lost VVD for a season... there was no coming back from losing Rudiger IMO. Kante fitness has been questionable for years now. James injury proneness also not new. Once again, many here hated Alonso, so Cucurella *must* be an improvement no? Others also hated Werner, and lauded Sterling as a huge improvement.

I think that the bottom line is that some of us think betting on Potter makes sense while others think it does not. I'm in the latter group and think the current ownership are completely out of their depth.

Edited January 4, 2023 by robsblubot

[Vegetable 830]

55 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

A manager that took a promoted team, coached up the talent they had while adding players that were not out of their small budget and getting them to the top of the table doesn't appeal to you? 

That's a bit of a stretch, eh? He is being portrayed by his backers as the face behind Leicester-like story, while Brighton did decent, but not spectacular by any means.

I guess "the venom" comes from fact that he is not Chelsea level for one and he is neither one of our own nor some exciting and honoured tactical philosopher, so there is no real reason to stand behind him except for TB had hired him. Plus, so far he has ZERO input on the team and like 4 points from 8 games. No sign of roster rotation, no sign of tactical idea or Mourinho-like mentality change we crave so much. Actually, he seems to be the opposite of what Mourinho tried to impose here. He doesn't seem to be one of a kind in any way as the other Guy say and Chelsea is no place for mediocrity. He'd do as caretaker manager, but plan for him is all but this.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Vegetable

[Jype 6,398]

6 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

 

Fofona is a question mark at best, but agree that important for depth.
Agree to disagree on the rest there, because Tuchel had already lost Ruddier and Andreas in his last season. It's been discussed plenty around here. I myself, wrote that Klopp had similar issues when he lost VVD for a season... there was no coming back from losing Rudiger IMO.

What are you even talking about?

Are you saying 'in his last season' as in this season where Tuchel stayed in charge for what, 5 games? Because last season (2021/22) Tuchel still very much had both of them in the squad.

So you recognize the importance of having lost Rüdiger and even go on to say 'there was no coming back from losing him' but then still go all-in with your criticism of Potter for not working miracles with inferior players? Gotcha.

[robsblubot 3,595]

41 minutes ago, Jype said:

What are you even talking about?

Are you saying 'in his last season' as in this season where Tuchel stayed in charge for what, 5 games? Because last season (2021/22) Tuchel still very much had both of them in the squad.

So you recognize the importance of having lost Rüdiger and even go on to say 'there was no coming back from losing him' but then still go all-in with your criticism of Potter for not working miracles with inferior players? Gotcha.

If you think players running down their contracts give 100% 🤷‍♂️

My opinion is very simple and you are welcome to disagree with it, evidently:

Potter shouldn't have been given the opportunity to begin with. He's not ready (if he will ever be ready) to manage a team like Chelsea coming from a nothing club. I hope he succeeds, but I don't believe he will.

[Jype 6,398]

1 minute ago, robsblubot said:

If you think players running down their contracts give 100% 🤷‍♂️

 

There was definitely no slacking from Rüdiger, the man always gave maximum effort till the very end. Not entirely convinced Christensen did though.

Either way it's very simple, Tuchel still had Rüdiger playing at a high enough level and Potter doesn't. 

[Vegetable 830]

9 minutes ago, Jype said:

Tuchel still had Rüdiger playing at a high enough level and Potter doesn't. 

I for one would say Tuchel MADE Rüdiger playing at a high enough level - he wasn't so good under Sarri or Lamps and that would be another of my arguments against Potter 🙃

 

I don't really buy "bad players" argument for one practical reason - it won't change. We have no clear vision of player X, Y and Z coming this winter and off we go. Every transfer we'll make will be sort of gamble and Potter has to work with what he has, otherwise we will die waiting for a proper roster for him to be able to do his job, whatever this job will be.

Manager has to work with what he have, otherwise what's the point of having manager at all or appointing one who for some reason can't do anything with personnel we have.

To say a Premier League manager can't do shit about defense having Kalidou freaking Koulibaly in the team sounds ridiculous at least. Sarri did with washed-out Garry Cahill and not complain.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Vegetable

[robsblubot 3,595]

4 minutes ago, Jype said:

There was definitely no slacking from Rüdiger, the man always gave maximum effort till the very end. Not entirely convinced Christensen did though.

Either way it's very simple, Tuchel still had Rüdiger playing at a high enough level and Potter doesn't. 

That's an opinion, and one I disagree with.

For me, and me alone, it's still a simple matter of Tuchel vs Potter and I think their resumes say it all.

[Jype 6,398]

Just now, Vegetable said:

I for one would say Tuchel MADE Rüdiger playing at a high enough level - he wasn't so good under Sarri or Lamps and that would another of my arguments against Potter 🙃

Sure, I too fully credit Tuchel with Rüdiger becoming as good as he did but the fact still remains he's gone and the squad is much worse off for it.

Tuchel only coached the team for a bunch of games this season so the sample size is quite small but even at the start of the season Koulibaly looked just as bad as he does now and nowhere near Rüdiger's level.

[Dan Lee 47]

Many people here said things that really made senses. However, a professional guy should know well what they are doing to be promoted/considered/awarded. For the investors, when they put their money into something, it is not just a casual consideration. You talked a lot of things here as if only you can see it. Sometimes, things are not as you see. Maybe they have reasons behind it.

Many smart people are around and within the organization. Give them some credit and time. 

[Blue Armour 4,436]

-delete wrong topic-

Edited January 5, 2023 by Blue Armour

[Vegetable 830]

I wonder what does the dressing room thinks of it.

The supposed fall apart of some players with Tuchel was caused by lack of rotation, yet nothing changed in this departament. I know we managed to reduce the dressing room to mostly people who hardly care for anything bar paycheck, but are they able to actually respect GP? Especially given his pressers of "it's difficult, it's hard, we don't deserved, we are worried, we are suffering".

Can't shake off the feeling that if we'd still have Broccolihead on books, there would already be a prime shithousery going on there.

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

Imagine the likes of Hutchinson, Hall, and Carney who continue to see Sterling, Mount, Havertz, stink up the pitch week after week.

Zero incentive. 

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

2 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Imagine the likes of Hutchinson, Hall, and Carney who continue to see Sterling, Mount, Havertz, stink up the pitch week after week.

Zero incentive. 

Tbf most players will be looking at how shite we are offensively and defensively for the personnel we have and be thinking fuck that.

We are in an awful place atm. 

[Mhsc 1,093]

6 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Imagine the likes of Hutchinson, Hall, and Carney who continue to see Sterling, Mount, Havertz, stink up the pitch week after week.

Zero incentive. 

Agreed, I think it is 100% time for the younger generation to get their go. Players <25 only, plus any player older who has been hitting 7/10 performances over the season on average.