Chelsea Transfers

[Superblue 6,372]

  On 04/08/2021 at 09:41, Jype said:

Pastorello will surely get a fee out of it as well, but nothing is suggesting he would get anywhere close to Raiola money. Raiola is notorious for brokering deals where he gets a big chunk of the pie, but most agents are not like that and while there are still agent fees involved they're nowhere near the same. And in Haaland's case his dad must be paid too for some absurd reason.

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Because Raiola I don't think is technically his agent, he's an advisor. Haaland's dad is his agent.

All this means is your paying two people instead of one, both from what it sounds greedy beyond compare. I've read some instances where Raiola wants £40m, the dad wants £10-20m and Haaland wants a signing fee of £10-20m. With a much lower release clause next season there's unfortunately a possibility that someone is prepared to pay those sorts of figures to sweeten the deal but if they're asking for similar numbers this summer on top of a huge transfer fee to Dortmund, no wonder the club has backed away. 

[Superblue 6,372]

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:13, Razer Sharp said:

Man for some reason this transfer feels so underwhelming 130M is just ridiculous money for a player nearing 30 years old with a dodgy record in big games whilst also moving the in form Havertz away from the central spot. Also hope we can still make a few more signings Tchouameni would be a good one 

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Just turned 28 a couple of months ago is hardly nearing 30 years old. 

There's likely to be little resale value, but if the club gets 3-4 top years from him and his goals are a big part of further trophies then it could well end up worth it still.

There is very little margin for error on a deal like this mind.

[Superblue 6,372]

  On 04/08/2021 at 05:15, OhForAGreavsie said:

I believe that Rom is the same player he was when I wrote him off as a Chelsea prospect in 2011. I had endless discussions at the time with people claiming he was young and that his touch would improve. I said then, and believe just as strongly now, that players' innate qualities become fixed and permanent way before the age of 19. Experience and training can teach a player how to make the most of what he has but what he has, his basic talent level, isn't going anywhere at that age.

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I could not disagree more with this. Technical aspects of a players game can be improved well past their formative years. Are you telling me that someone like Lampard didn't improve aspects of his basic technique in repetitive passing and shooting drills to become a better player as he got older. The levels that were there in his late 20's and early 30's were not those which he had when we signed him in his early 20's. Technical aspects of a players game can definitely be coached and improved upon I would say much easier than mental characteristics.

Now in the example of Lukaku, I can't pass comment on whether I believe this to be true because I haven't watched enough of him, and whilst he's hardly going to suddenly have the technique of Maradona, I could completely believe that aspects of his game such as his first touch have been improved, particularly if that is an area of his game that has been highlighted and worked on consistently which it sounds like Conte has done. 

Like you alluded too, all skills and abilities in football also go beyond a basic technique. As you get older, you'd expect and hope a player at the top level to improve on other aspects such as awareness of time and space, anticipation, awareness of teammates, positioning when receiving the ball, understanding of how to use your body, etc. 

I'm not expecting Lukaku's first touch and hold up play to suddenly be the main strength of his game, but I think it's incredibly naive to dismiss that something like that can't be worked on and naturally improve with age to at the very least no longer be a glaring weakness in his game.

[Blues Forever 1,232]

 

[Marvin123 502]

Not getting 3 points against all the smaller sides is our problem.... Lukaku solves this. Premier League here we come

[Jype 6,398]

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:16, Superblue_1986 said:

Just turned 28 a couple of months ago is hardly nearing 30 years old. 

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Didn't you get the memo, all players turn shit overnight once they hit 30 and the decline already starts multiple years before that magic number? 🤣

From a financial perspective I totally understand going for a younger player with more re-sale value if needed, but if with the younger player the numbers don't add up the re-sale value means fuck all. For Haaland the higher transfer fee, Raiola fee and dad's fee all add up to so much more than Lukaku's transfer costs that it's very likely it doesn't even matter if he doesn't have a meaningful re-sale value. Even if the club loses full transfer value on Lukaku but Haaland in a few years would still command a hefty fee like 100-150M then adding up all costs together Lukaku might still be the 'cheaper player'. 

Also, PSG must be jumping with joy that Mbappe is still a young player with high value when it's looking like he'll run down his contract and leave on a free transfer and there's nothing they can do about it. Around the same time they bought two expensive players, one 18yo with higher re-sale value (Mbappe) and one player in his prime (Neymar) who'd have had quite little value at the end of his initial contract (after hitting the much dreaded 30yo mark). Now it's likely they lose Mbappe on a free but still have Neymar who happily extended his deal and in the end will give them a much better value for the money they paid, even though Mbappe was probably thought to be the better deal. 

 

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:16, Superblue_1986 said:

There is very little margin for error on a deal like this mind.

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This is very much true. Lukaku has to hit the ground running and continue being a top performer for at least the next 3-4 years to justify the outlay. If he struggles badly, the club are fucked like before with Torres. But I have faith in Big Rom.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,916]

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:31, Superblue_1986 said:

I could not disagree more with this. Technical aspects of a players game can be improved well past their formative years

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I've picked out this sentence to respond to before reading the rest of your post. I'll read on shortly.

I'll respond by asking the same question that I asked in 2011 when this point was made. If what you say is correct then why don't all players simply practice until they are Lionel Messi?

The reality is that there is an underlying level of talent which underpins and anchors what a footballer can do. Based on how hard they work and how well they apply lessons learned, players can force themselves to the top of their talent group, or slide towards the bottom of it, but they won't jump groups. Hakim Ziyech is a talented footballer but no amount of extra work after training is going to turn him into Zinedine Zidane, never mind Messi or Pele.

I said a decade ago that Rom is an intelligent bloke who would learn his lessons well and make the most of what he was given. He has done that. This may make him the best available solution for Chelsea now but he is not one that will satisfy the club's manager for long.

[ZAPHOD2319 4,598]

All the Lukaku doubters were wanting Kane….who is how old?? I am pretty excited about Lukaku.

 

 

[Superblue 6,372]

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:50, OhForAGreavsie said:

I've picked out this sentence to respond to before reading the rest of your post. I'll read on shortly.

I'll respond by asking the same question that I asked in 2011 when this point was made. If what you say is correct then why don't all players simply practice until they are Lionel Messi?

The reality is that there is an underlying level of talent which underpins and anchors what a footballer can do. Based on how hard they work and how well they apply lessons learned, players can force themselves to the top of their talent group, or slide towards the bottom of it, but they won't jump groups. Hakim Ziyech is a talented footballer but no amount of extra work after training is going to turn him into Zinedine Zidane, never mind Messi or Pele.

I said a decade ago that Rom is an intelligent bloke who would learn his lessons well and make the most of what he was given. He has done that. This may make him the best available solution for Chelsea now but he is not one that will satisfy the club's manager for long.

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I agree that there is a general underlying level of natural talent because otherwise we would probably all aspire to be footballer players.

But the idea of being unable to improve on particular technical aspects I don't agree. As I said, I don't expect it to suddenly become a strength to his game, but can it be worked on so it is no longer a weakness? In my opinion yes. We're not talking about moving a needle from poor to world class, but potentially below average to average. If you also add in other aspects I mentioned which extend beyond the basic technique of a footballing skill then I don't believe it it should be so easily dismissed.

And if those parts of his game have improved in a way that some seem to believe it has then we could be talking about a far more polished player than the one that was playing in England a couple of years ago. 

It's easy to pick out extreme cases like Messi and Zidane. On your point of being unable to jump groups, I'll use an extreme case in Lampard to go against that. There is no way that his 'talent group' when younger was amongst the best midfielders in the world which I believe was where he was positioned in his prime. It came with a mixture of age and experience, combined with a relentless drive to improve his technical game. And his technical game did improve way past the age of 18/19.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:41, Jype said:

This is very much true. Lukaku has to hit the ground running and continue being a top performer for at least the next 3-4 years to justify the outlay. If he struggles badly, the club are fucked like before with Torres. But I have faith in Big Rom.

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One thing is for sure, you can bet your arse that there will be racial abuse towards Lukaku whenever something goes wrong. 

[Jase 43,479]

By the way, remember all that argument about the club always do things quietly in the transfer window? 🤣

[chelsea_4_eva 1,167]

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:38, Blues Forever said:

 

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Are Man City going to buy both Grealish and Kane?..

I havent seen them sell any of their players...

 

Ps. Fingers crosses we can SELL some of our fringe players by the end of the window

[Jase 43,479]

  On 04/08/2021 at 09:10, Azul said:

For those that say that Lukaku doesn't fit our system....false! For a big man, he's extremely pacy, and has very good movement. His link-up play is one a whole other level compared to the likes of Werner.

Not only that, but we play with wing-backs ffs😂 What do wing-backs usually do? They cross the ball in when given the chance, and the amount of opportunities we've had to convert a cross into a goal is absurd. Lukaku is a demon when it comes to being dominant in the box and bully defenders when it comes to converting crosses into goals.

Add the fact that Lukaku is a threat from outside the box as well, and we know how many shots outside the box we've had yet Timo/Mason/Pulisic etc couldn't even really test the goalkeeper. Lukaku is literally made for this system, and he will be surrounded by much much better players. People need to remember that we create way more chances than Inter. Hell we even create more chances than Man City under Thomas Tuchel!

For those being negative, I'm warning you.......you're going to look like a fool when the season starts😂

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What can we do to you if you're wrong? 👀

[Pizy 18,552]

  On 04/08/2021 at 11:22, Jase said:

By the way, remember all that argument about the club always do things quietly in the transfer window? 🤣

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Maybe they are still and this whole Lukaku media explosion is all a smokescreen for a stealth Haaland move.

🙃🙃🙃

[OhForAGreavsie 5,916]

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:31, Superblue_1986 said:

Are you telling me that someone like Lampard didn't improve aspects of his basic technique in repetitive passing and shooting drills to become a better player as he got older.

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Yes I am telling you this. SFL is an extremely intelligent man who made the absolute most of his abilities but, for example, he did not strike a ball with same timing that Gerrard did. This isn't to say that Frank didn't sometimes get it right and Gerrard sometimes get it wrong. If I need someone to score the goal Gerrard did against West Ham in Cardiff however I'd call the Liverpool man. Some things you can learn but some you can't.

 

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:31, Superblue_1986 said:

I could completely believe that aspects of [Lukaku's] game such as his first touch have been improved, particularly if that is an area of his game that has been highlighted and worked on consistently which it sounds like Conte has done. 

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I think the very fact coach and player are still having to work on this nine years after I made the point that it would remain a problem shows that I was right. What's Rom going to have learned in the last 12 months that he didn't learn in the previous 108?

  On 04/08/2021 at 10:31, Superblue_1986 said:

'm not expecting Lukaku's first touch and hold up play to suddenly be the main strength of his game, but I think it's incredibly naive to dismiss that something like that can't be worked on and naturally improve with age to at the very least no longer be a glaring weakness in his game.

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It won't surprise you to read that I don't consider myself to be naive. Anything can be worked on but not everything can be fixed. Believing that would indeed be naive.

Edited August 4, 2021 by OhForAGreavsie

[Azul 1,615]

  On 04/08/2021 at 11:22, Jase said:

What can we do to you if you're wrong? 👀

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Ban👀, let's talk after a full season by the way. Don't go all out in the first two weeks lol.

Even though I expect him to start the season well.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Azul

[Jase 43,479]

  On 04/08/2021 at 11:26, Azul said:

Ban👀, let's talk after a full season by the way. Don't go all out in the first two weeks lol.

Even though I expect him to start the season well.

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If Lukaku doesn't win us the sextuple this season, you're gone!

[milka 3,375]