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Just now, Superblue_1986 said:

I could not disagree more with this. Technical aspects of a players game can be improved well past their formative years

I've picked out this sentence to respond to before reading the rest of your post. I'll read on shortly.

I'll respond by asking the same question that I asked in 2011 when this point was made. If what you say is correct then why don't all players simply practice until they are Lionel Messi?

The reality is that there is an underlying level of talent which underpins and anchors what a footballer can do. Based on how hard they work and how well they apply lessons learned, players can force themselves to the top of their talent group, or slide towards the bottom of it, but they won't jump groups. Hakim Ziyech is a talented footballer but no amount of extra work after training is going to turn him into Zinedine Zidane, never mind Messi or Pele.

I said a decade ago that Rom is an intelligent bloke who would learn his lessons well and make the most of what he was given. He has done that. This may make him the best available solution for Chelsea now but he is not one that will satisfy the club's manager for long.

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7 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I've picked out this sentence to respond to before reading the rest of your post. I'll read on shortly.

I'll respond by asking the same question that I asked in 2011 when this point was made. If what you say is correct then why don't all players simply practice until they are Lionel Messi?

The reality is that there is an underlying level of talent which underpins and anchors what a footballer can do. Based on how hard they work and how well they apply lessons learned, players can force themselves to the top of their talent group, or slide towards the bottom of it, but they won't jump groups. Hakim Ziyech is a talented footballer but no amount of extra work after training is going to turn him into Zinedine Zidane, never mind Messi or Pele.

I said a decade ago that Rom is an intelligent bloke who would learn his lessons well and make the most of what he was given. He has done that. This may make him the best available solution for Chelsea now but he is not one that will satisfy the club's manager for long.

I agree that there is a general underlying level of natural talent because otherwise we would probably all aspire to be footballer players.

But the idea of being unable to improve on particular technical aspects I don't agree. As I said, I don't expect it to suddenly become a strength to his game, but can it be worked on so it is no longer a weakness? In my opinion yes. We're not talking about moving a needle from poor to world class, but potentially below average to average. If you also add in other aspects I mentioned which extend beyond the basic technique of a footballing skill then I don't believe it it should be so easily dismissed.

And if those parts of his game have improved in a way that some seem to believe it has then we could be talking about a far more polished player than the one that was playing in England a couple of years ago. 

It's easy to pick out extreme cases like Messi and Zidane. On your point of being unable to jump groups, I'll use an extreme case in Lampard to go against that. There is no way that his 'talent group' when younger was amongst the best midfielders in the world which I believe was where he was positioned in his prime. It came with a mixture of age and experience, combined with a relentless drive to improve his technical game. And his technical game did improve way past the age of 18/19.

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38 minutes ago, Jype said:

This is very much true. Lukaku has to hit the ground running and continue being a top performer for at least the next 3-4 years to justify the outlay. If he struggles badly, the club are fucked like before with Torres. But I have faith in Big Rom.

One thing is for sure, you can bet your arse that there will be racial abuse towards Lukaku whenever something goes wrong. 

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2 hours ago, Azul said:

For those that say that Lukaku doesn't fit our system....false! For a big man, he's extremely pacy, and has very good movement. His link-up play is one a whole other level compared to the likes of Werner.

Not only that, but we play with wing-backs ffs😂 What do wing-backs usually do? They cross the ball in when given the chance, and the amount of opportunities we've had to convert a cross into a goal is absurd. Lukaku is a demon when it comes to being dominant in the box and bully defenders when it comes to converting crosses into goals.

Add the fact that Lukaku is a threat from outside the box as well, and we know how many shots outside the box we've had yet Timo/Mason/Pulisic etc couldn't even really test the goalkeeper. Lukaku is literally made for this system, and he will be surrounded by much much better players. People need to remember that we create way more chances than Inter. Hell we even create more chances than Man City under Thomas Tuchel!

For those being negative, I'm warning you.......you're going to look like a fool when the season starts😂

What can we do to you if you're wrong? 👀

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1 minute ago, Jase said:

By the way, remember all that argument about the club always do things quietly in the transfer window? 🤣

Maybe they are still and this whole Lukaku media explosion is all a smokescreen for a stealth Haaland move.

🙃🙃🙃

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1 hour ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Are you telling me that someone like Lampard didn't improve aspects of his basic technique in repetitive passing and shooting drills to become a better player as he got older.

Yes I am telling you this. SFL is an extremely intelligent man who made the absolute most of his abilities but, for example, he did not strike a ball with same timing that Gerrard did. This isn't to say that Frank didn't sometimes get it right and Gerrard sometimes get it wrong. If I need someone to score the goal Gerrard did against West Ham in Cardiff however I'd call the Liverpool man. Some things you can learn but some you can't.

 

1 hour ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I could completely believe that aspects of [Lukaku's] game such as his first touch have been improved, particularly if that is an area of his game that has been highlighted and worked on consistently which it sounds like Conte has done. 

I think the very fact coach and player are still having to work on this nine years after I made the point that it would remain a problem shows that I was right. What's Rom going to have learned in the last 12 months that he didn't learn in the previous 108?

1 hour ago, Superblue_1986 said:

'm not expecting Lukaku's first touch and hold up play to suddenly be the main strength of his game, but I think it's incredibly naive to dismiss that something like that can't be worked on and naturally improve with age to at the very least no longer be a glaring weakness in his game.

It won't surprise you to read that I don't consider myself to be naive. Anything can be worked on but not everything can be fixed. Believing that would indeed be naive.

Edited by OhForAGreavsie
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4 minutes ago, Jase said:

What can we do to you if you're wrong? 👀

Ban👀, let's talk after a full season by the way. Don't go all out in the first two weeks lol.

Even though I expect him to start the season well.

Edited by Azul
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13 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Yes I am telling you this. SFL is an extremely intelligent man who made the absolute most of his abilities but, for example, he did not strike a ball with same timing that Gerrard did. This isn't to say that Frank didn't sometimes get it right and Gerrard sometimes get it wrong. If I need someone to score the goal Gerrard did against West Ham in Cardiff however I'd call the Liverpool man. Some things you can learn but some you can't.

 

Surely you see that the very fact coach and player are still having to work on this nine years after I made the point that it would remain a problem shows that I was right? What's Rom going to have learned in the last 12 months that he didn't learn in the previous 108?

It won't surprise you to read that I don't consider myself to be naive. Anything can be worked on but not everything can be fixed. Believing that would indeed be naive.

weird comparison given SFL scored way more long-distance goals than Gerrard. while that timing aspect is arguable, both were very talented shooters you could see that in their early career.

Lukaku on the other hand has always been below average in several aspects of the game.

Still, i would argue that a player can improve individual aspects of his game at any age but it hardly gonna improve overall as a player after he hit his late 20ies with the exception of players who started to play professional football late. Kante or Drogba clearly improved their passing during their time here at the bridge. It is ofc down to natural talent how much you can improve and first touch will never be Rom's forte but it is totally in the realm of the possible that he improved his first touch from terrible to just about tolerable even in 12 months. Maybe Rom did not respond to prior coaching methods and only Conte found the right approach. I say this as somoene who is against this transfer, i still have seen lukaku do inch perfect first touch layoffs for Inter that would have landed in the stands during his ManUre time.

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                           LUKAKU

        WERNER   MOUNT  HAVERTZ

                   KANTE  JORGINHO

CHILWELL  SILVA    KOUNDE   JAMES

                           MENDY

 

?

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Bit of a selection headache for TT in the very biggest matches. Starting both Lukaku and Werner together could be scary good on the counter against say, City or Liverpool when they press us high. But then you likely have to sacrifice Mount meaning we can’t press as high as we ourselves like to.

 

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