Todd Boehly Thread

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, Blue Armour said:

Could argue that Potter’s Brighton was better than Artetas Arsenal from last year., with a less expensive squad.

Let's face it. Arsenal were really embarrassing to watch at times, and you could just jump on one of their fan forums to see it.

I don't think anyone envisioned a situation were Arsenal would be leading the table by 5 points going into the WC this year. 

Liverpool have had a nightmare start, City having moments of inconsistency.

Anyway regardless of Arsenal, Potters Chelsea is just woeful at the moment.

Just because it worked for another team, doesn't mean it works the same way for every other team.

If we're going to have back to back defeats playing woeful football after the break, it would be time to reconsider the project.

 

I just don't see what Potter did at Brighton relevant to a club like Chelsea. Arteta brought in ideas that worked at a top club, Potter is bringing what exactly? How to have a staunch defense?

There is nothing cooler than having a "bet" like Potter work out, but tbf I still don't see how he got the job to begin with. Sounded like owners arrogance to me.

 

[Superblue 6,372]

2 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I just don't see what Potter did at Brighton relevant to a club like Chelsea. Arteta brought in ideas that worked at a top club, Potter is bringing what exactly? How to have a staunch defense?

There is nothing cooler than having a "bet" like Potter work out, but tbf I still don't see how he got the job to begin with. Sounded like owners arrogance to me.

 

I don't think you can take away what he did at Brighton. Before him they were a struggling side playing pretty dour stuff under Chris Hughton. Not only has he completely revamped the style of play on a budget, but had them punching well above their weight and probably viewed amongst the top 6 teams as one of the hardest teams to play against because they wouldn't let the big boys dominate possession.

With the exception of the very few managers who due to circumstances start at the very top, every manager/coach needs that opportunity where a big club takes a chance on them. Klopp, Tuchel, Ancelotti, Conte all started near the bottom of the totem pole and needed a bigger club to recognise their potential - Klopp and Tuchel in particular who had forgettable playing careers. Pochettino needed a similar opportunity with Spurs from Southampton and I think Espanyol before that.

I think for the ownership, they looked at Potter as someone on an upward trajectory in their career and with a blossoming reputation for building a team with an attractive style of play over a longer, sustainable period of time. I do think if he'd continued at Brighton then somebody would have taken a chance on him sooner rather than later. He'd already reportedly turned Spurs down after Nuno was sacked as he felt it wasn't the right time to leave Brighton. I actually feel it was quite refreshing for them to look beyond a big name like Zidane for example because that hopefully bodes well for their recruitment in the future to not just focus on the biggest names available.

He rightfully should be afforded time and patience this early in his tenure. But the performances recently don't help his cause. Like I've mentioned previously, I'd argue he has the rest of this season to at the very least prove we're moving in the right direction with this project. 

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

2 hours ago, Superblue said:

I don't think you can take away what he did at Brighton. Before him they were a struggling side playing pretty dour stuff under Chris Hughton. Not only has he completely revamped the style of play on a budget, but had them punching well above their weight and probably viewed amongst the top 6 teams as one of the hardest teams to play against because they wouldn't let the big boys dominate possession.

With the exception of the very few managers who due to circumstances start at the very top, every manager/coach needs that opportunity where a big club takes a chance on them. Klopp, Tuchel, Ancelotti, Conte all started near the bottom of the totem pole and needed a bigger club to recognise their potential - Klopp and Tuchel in particular who had forgettable playing careers. Pochettino needed a similar opportunity with Spurs from Southampton and I think Espanyol before that.

I think for the ownership, they looked at Potter as someone on an upward trajectory in their career and with a blossoming reputation for building a team with an attractive style of play over a longer, sustainable period of time. I do think if he'd continued at Brighton then somebody would have taken a chance on him sooner rather than later. He'd already reportedly turned Spurs down after Nuno was sacked as he felt it wasn't the right time to leave Brighton. I actually feel it was quite refreshing for them to look beyond a big name like Zidane for example because that hopefully bodes well for their recruitment in the future to not just focus on the biggest names available.

He rightfully should be afforded time and patience this early in his tenure. But the performances recently don't help his cause. Like I've mentioned previously, I'd argue he has the rest of this season to at the very least prove we're moving in the right direction with this project. 

 

I don't think I take away what he did at Brighton; I claim it's not applicable to a club like Chelsea. It's akin (as an analogy) to working at a tiny company where you do everything vs working in a international powerhouse, where there is always a team already doing that work you used to do yourself; in the former example being a "doer" is more important, while in the latter being able to integrate is key. In my view even Arteta's experience at City was more relevant than Potter's.

I really don't think much about playing career of managers... there are other ways to acquire that experience. None of the managers you mentioned moved from a nothing club (like Brighton) to a powerhouse like a top 10 club in the world. Tuchel in fact was dealing with shits like Neymar before he came to Chelsea. Klopp managed plenty of smaller clubs until getting a shot at Dortmund (once again a little bigger than Brighton). like Potter, there are hundreds coaches/managers who did far more impressive work in other leagues. Abel Ferreira at Palmeiras in Brazil (who played us in the WCC) for ex.

I agree that that is what the leadership at the club is thinking, but I disagree it is the right approach. Maybe because I don't see what they see in Potter, or maybe there is nothing to see and he's there because he's English and did a good job at a tiny club--mostly because he's English tho.

We will see if the new ownership will be patient with their yes-man, but yeah we have yet to see progress in *some* direction. 

 

[Reddish-Blue 2,489]

2 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I don't think I take away what he did at Brighton; I claim it's not applicable to a club like Chelsea. It's akin (as an analogy) to working at a tiny company where you do everything vs working in a international powerhouse, where there is always a team already doing that work you used to do yourself; in the former example being a "doer" is more important, while in the latter being able to integrate is key. In my view even Arteta's experience at City was more relevant than Potter's.

I really don't think much about playing career of managers... there are other ways to acquire that experience. None of the managers you mentioned moved from a nothing club (like Brighton) to a powerhouse like a top 10 club in the world. Tuchel in fact was dealing with shits like Neymar before he came to Chelsea. Klopp managed plenty of smaller clubs until getting a shot at Dortmund (once again a little bigger than Brighton). like Potter, there are hundreds coaches/managers who did far more impressive work in other leagues. Abel Ferreira at Palmeiras in Brazil (who played us in the WCC) for ex.

I agree that that is what the leadership at the club is thinking, but I disagree it is the right approach. Maybe because I don't see what they see in Potter, or maybe there is nothing to see and he's there because he's English and did a good job at a tiny club--mostly because he's English tho.

We will see if the new ownership will be patient with their yes-man, but yeah we have yet to see progress in *some* direction. 

 

Let's put it this way, Potter was next in line for a top 6 club role, it was a question of when he would take that step. 

As for Chelsea being classed as a powerhouse, I would say, we haven't really been a powerhouse since the days of Conte and winning the league with a guy that could destroy the opposition by himself (Hazard) and some top class players in Matic, Willian, Costa and co. 

Just because Tuchel was able to get everyone on the same page and motivate them towards an amazing UCL run doesn't make this team a powerhouse, it actually just papered over the cracks because we didn't have injuries to pretty much all of our top class players at the same time. 

Now we have no depth, our top players are either out injured (Kante, James), carrying injuries (Kovacic, Jorginho) or they've left the club on a free transfer (Rudiger, Christensen, even Alonso was solid depth). 

You take 4 starting XI players out from the rest of the top 6, I bet they would look bang average as well.   Imagine City without De Bruyne, Bernardo pulling the strings, Imagine Arsenal if Xhaka & Partey were out, Imagine Spurs without Lloris, Kane, Imagine United without Eriksen, Casemiro.  

[Special Juan 28,089]

I just can't see past the absolute middle of the road shite players we have here right now.

Jorginho, Aubameyang, Ziyech, Gallagher, Havertz, Zakaria, Mendy, Azpilicueta, RLC, Mount and Pulisic

That's only naming a few and you can probably add more to that. Potter needs time and signings, because I'm not having anyone tell me any players from that list above are worthy/have done anything of note consistently well enough to warrant being in this team. They are all a millions miles away from from the quality City/Liverpool have. And that's the difference as to why we won't challenge for the title anytime soon. 

The club has been through a really rocky patch and it needs a rebuild, it's there for all to see. The impatience comes from past success, and rightly so but the transition now is going to be a slow process and will take some time. I fear for the likes of Mount and Gallagher because TB and Co won't allow the likes of these to canter along, they will spend and spend big and it will impact them and others.

Worrying times for players and fans a like, we have to ride this out and coming with that is going to be shit results and shit performances- the process will take time.

[Superblue 6,372]

10 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I don't think I take away what he did at Brighton; I claim it's not applicable to a club like Chelsea. It's akin (as an analogy) to working at a tiny company where you do everything vs working in a international powerhouse, where there is always a team already doing that work you used to do yourself; in the former example being a "doer" is more important, while in the latter being able to integrate is key. In my view even Arteta's experience at City was more relevant than Potter's.

I really don't think much about playing career of managers... there are other ways to acquire that experience. None of the managers you mentioned moved from a nothing club (like Brighton) to a powerhouse like a top 10 club in the world. Tuchel in fact was dealing with shits like Neymar before he came to Chelsea. Klopp managed plenty of smaller clubs until getting a shot at Dortmund (once again a little bigger than Brighton). like Potter, there are hundreds coaches/managers who did far more impressive work in other leagues. Abel Ferreira at Palmeiras in Brazil (who played us in the WCC) for ex.

I agree that that is what the leadership at the club is thinking, but I disagree it is the right approach. Maybe because I don't see what they see in Potter, or maybe there is nothing to see and he's there because he's English and did a good job at a tiny club--mostly because he's English tho.

We will see if the new ownership will be patient with their yes-man, but yeah we have yet to see progress in *some* direction. 

I would argue Chelsea taking a punt on Potter is similar to Dortmund taking a chance on Klopp and then Tuchel. Both are big clubs in their domestic leagues and respected across Europe, but both in need of a rebuild and reboot at the time the appointments were made. Whatever people's thoughts are of the current job Potter is doing, his reputation for his work at Brighton was growing and like @Reddish-Blue said, I think if it wasn't us then another top 6 club would have taken a chance on him when the next vacancy came up. 

I don't think being English is any sort of reason for his appointment either, our owners are American, I don't really understand the correlation why they'd prefer an Englishman to lead the club. I read something when he was being appointed that they didn't want to go for the tried and trusted and wanted an up and coming manager who would grow alongside the club. The other main candidate was reportedly the Sporting coach so I don't think nationality played a part.

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

11 hours ago, robsblubot said:

did a good job at a tiny club--mostly because he's English tho.

You forgetting this so called tiny club made us look like a Sunday league team? And started far better than us when TT was here at the start of the season? It's also got nothing to do with his nationality, he's earned the job on merit and that alone.ive said it once and I'll say it again far to many Chelsea fans are spoilt and have forgot where we came from to where we are now, doesn't last forever if u stand still and let seasons pass you by. Happend to Arsenal and Manchester UTD and now it's us, Manchester City didn't become this absolute power house over night, but alot of you can't seem to get it in your heads this club needs a massive overhaul, you just want stuff NOW NOW NOW.

[Superblue 6,372]

17 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

You forgetting this so called tiny club made us look like a Sunday league team? And started far better than us when TT was here at the start of the season? It's also got nothing to do with his nationality, he's earned the job on merit and that alone.ive said it once and I'll say it again far to many Chelsea fans are spoilt and have forgot where we came from to where we are now, doesn't last forever if u stand still and let seasons pass you by. Happend to Arsenal and Manchester UTD and now it's us, Manchester City didn't become this absolute power house over night, but alot of you can't seem to get it in your heads this club needs a massive overhaul, you just want stuff NOW NOW NOW.

I agree with this, although there is also always that worrying feeling whether someone is the right person for a job and the inevitable is delayed for the sake of trying to stabilise.

I think in the case of Potter, unless we completely started free-falling down the league table, he should be given this season with no real pressure being placed on him. I'm not expecting him to wave a magic wand, and at present I don't even expect him to get us in the top 4 but by the end of the season I want to see what the plan is moving forward with regards to style and performances. They might not necessarily be complete or consistent yet, but what has been served up in the last few games is quite alarming because we're getting out played, out thought and out battled. There has to be an obvious upward trajectory in my opinion in 6 months' time to know that he is worth that time and patience to be afforded to him to get this to work. 

With the schedule and the number of injuries we've had, it was always going to be a tricky period to come in, but we can't just expect to rip everything up and build a completely new team. That's something that will take at least 2-3 years to shape, and, in the meantime, there will be areas where we have to make do and he has to get a tune out of some players for the foreseeable future. 

I do think he needs to get a few results soon after the break too though. If we lost at home against Bournemouth I can see the crowd start turning on the team and the manager. You get the feeling already that patience is starting to wear a little thin. At times our home support can sometimes be questioned with regards to atmosphere, but one thing that has always been apparent is if the support turns, it can get toxic very quickly. It feels like it's simmering a little currently, and a couple more bad results and dire performances and I can see anger and frustration being vented on players, manager and owners.

[robsblubot 3,595]

We agree to disagree on whether Potter deserves the shot he's been given, which is absolutely fine. I hope to be 100% wrong here and that he turns things around.

I have a harder time with discussing club's sizes, because that's measurable and fairly obvious. You can take wages, club estimated (or factual in our case) value, which include facilities, brand value, revenue, etc... lots of information on this subject.

The same, to a lesser degree, applies to players. It gets a little more difficult because we get age and resale value, which may or may not be important. It's easier to measure market demand though: like if our player would've been given free agency, where would he go and for how much money. It's a different discussion tho... the point was about club size.

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

If Potter goes into January and tells his recruitment team to make CM an utmost priority, then he's already got one up on Tuchel in his ability to build a side. 

 

[Reddish-Blue 2,489]

13 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

If Potter goes into January and tells his recruitment team to make CM an utmost priority, then he's already got one up on Tuchel in his ability to build a side. 

 

He could do that but not sure which top class CM would leave their current club in January...

Feel like the only signings possible in the January window are top up players like a backup RB, backup winger as a replacement for Ziyech. 

[Superblue 6,372]

3 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

He could do that but not sure which top class CM would leave their current club in January...

Feel like the only signings possible in the January window are top up players like a backup RB, backup winger as a replacement for Ziyech. 

Not just centre mid, but this applies to pretty much any position.

I suppose the World Cup break gives the club more time to try and sort deals out if there are some to be sorted but January has historically been a bit of a nightmare window where teams usually buy in panic more than anything else. You get the odd success and from our perspective, we could really do with a signing that gives the club a shot in the arm in a similar way to how Fernandes did when United bought him a few years back.

What I don't want to see happen is the club make signings in January to chase top 4, only to be left with a bigger mess to deal with next summer. If the deals aren't there, then they shouldn't be made. There will be plenty of opportunities in the summer irrespective of finishing in the top 4. 

One that does appear to have started being mentioned again is Zakharyan - for the price being mentioned and from the clips I've seen of him he definitely looks to be a talent worth taking a chance on. Whether he could come in and hit the ground running immediately I'm not too sure, but if a deal could be done in January it would give him the second half of this season to bed in to the club and England in general.