Super Frank Thread

[Vesper 28,786]

Friday October 2 2020 Football Nerd

Why Edouard Mendy faces a challenge adapting his distribution at Chelsea By Daniel Zeqiri   Chelsea have addressed their most glaring problem from last season by buying Edouard Mendy to replace Kepa Arrizabalaga in goal. Kepa's statistical performance last season was frankly horrendous, and despite their defensive problems Chelsea would have had Champions League football wrapped up well before the final weekend with a competent goalkeeper. The early signs are good for Mendy, who was extremely solid for a competitive Rennes team in Ligue 1 last season. However, Mendy's tendency in France was to kick long from goal kicks, and he will need to adapt and be more measured at Chelsea. Playing out from the back has been a topical subject following Liverpool vs Arsenal on Monday night. I analyse Mendy's distribution here and whether it should be a concern for Frank Lampard.

[Vesper 28,786]

Will Abramovich give Lampard time to build a squad like Klopp and Guardiola?

https://theathletic.com/2104345/2020/10/02/lampard-abramovich-sack-marina-chelsea/

Not good enough. Tactically naive. Time to go. These were just some of the sentiments expressed by supporters about Chelsea coach Frank Lampard following their Carabao Cup exit to Tottenham.

The level of vitriol from sections of the fanbase was surprising. Nobody would suggest it has been a good opening to the season, but the progress and promise of what happened in Lampard’s 2019-20 debut campaign seems to have already been forgotten or discounted. There is only one opinion which truly counts at Stamford Bridge and that is obviously what the hierarchy, most notably owner Roman Abramovich, thinks. History shows patience is not a virtue in the blue corner of west London when things are going awry.

But Chelsea are not only just five games into 2020-21, but Lampard’s plans for the squad are also in their infancy too. One transfer window, even if over £200 million has been spent in bringing seven new players through the door, isn’t going to fix the malaise that was allowed to develop long before the former Chelsea midfielder returned as head coach.

Between 2015-19, Chelsea spent more than £650 million on 29 players. Having three different managers — Jose Mourinho, Antonio Conte and Maurizio Sarri — come and go in that time before Lampard took over meant the squad was always going to be subject to a lot of change. The vast majority of those 29 have now left, either permanently or on loan. Of the 11 remaining, only N’Golo Kante, Christian Pulisic and Mateo Kovacic can feel confident they are part of Lampard’s long-term thinking.

Players such as Jorginho, Emerson, Marcos Alonso and Kepa Arrizabalaga have had game time, but Chelsea are prepared to listen to offers for all four before the window shuts on Monday. Veterans Willy Caballero and Olivier Giroud have featured too, however their ages mean this is surely their last season at the club.

In other words, before this summer’s exciting splurge on Hakim Ziyech, Timo Werner and Kai Havertz, Chelsea haven’t recruited very well. They failed to capitalise on winning the title in 2015 and 2017 by strengthening with great quality. It made the transfer ban of last year an even bigger blow, especially for Lampard as he couldn’t make the kind of changes any new appointment in the dugout would want.

There is an element of luck when it comes to recruitment. No one can ever be 100 per cent sure that a signing will work out. There was understandable optimism, for example, about Alvaro Morata’s arrival in 2017. He had shown ability at Juventus and Real Madrid, yet simply failed to cope with the pressure of being Chelsea’s front man, and was not helped by a niggling back injury.

But a lot of cash has been frittered away on players such as Davide Zappacosta, Baba Rahman (a knee injury didn’t help him either), Michy Batshuayi and Emerson. They’re obviously not terrible footballers, but hardly the kind you need to compete for the Premier League or Champions League every year.

Tiemoue Bakayoko and Danny Drinkwater didn’t exactly set the pulses racing after being bought for a combined £75 million in 2017. They have just 29 Premier League starts for Chelsea between them and it’s over two years since either appeared in the first team of a club now back in the unenviable position of frantically trying to offload them ahead of Monday night’s transfer deadline.

A manager will always have to take responsibility for bad results and inevitably pay the price for when things go wrong. Lampard knows this. But Chelsea were never going to be a quick fix, no matter who was in the dugout, because of mistakes made in the past.

Chelsea’s decline as a major force in the game is borne out by their failure to get past the Champions League’s last 16 since their run to the semi-finals in the 2013-14 season. Reaching the last four of that competition used to be commonplace — they got that far on seven occasions between 2004-2014 and went on to make two finals, including lifting the trophy in 2012.

When Lampard held talks with Werner and Havertz about joining Chelsea, he talked to them about a three-year project to get the side back to challenging for the biggest trophies on a regular basis, a view he’s bound to have also shared with the board. It is encouraging he has been backed to such an extent and notable that the top brass granted his request for a new goalkeeper. But with that comes much greater expectations.

One of the accusations being labelled at Lampard from fans and pundits is that there haven’t been many signs of improvement so far. It is hardly a surprise considering the new arrivals have just 12 starts between them in all competitions, with Ziyech not featuring at all yet because of a knee problem while another important squad member in Pulisic has also not played a game because of a hamstring injury.

On top of that, this isn’t “Lampard’s squad” yet. There will be players the Englishman inherited that he doesn’t see adapting to his way of thinking or right attitude, let alone his style of play. The Athletic has been informed the atmosphere is a bit tense at the moment because there are a few individuals who are angling for a move and/or frustrated about not being involved enough. An indication of this came in the aftermath of Saturday’s draw with West Bromwich Albion and Marcos Alonso’s lack of discipline.

It is going to take more than one window for Lampard to address all of this and an inevitable question the powers-that-be at Chelsea will face should negative results continue is how long are they prepared to wait? But they only have to look at some of their Premier League rivals to see the rewards that can come if you’re patient.

Take Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp, for example. They are a formidable force now, but a lot of work was involved to get here. A glance at the league positions alone show that after Klopp arrived in October 2015, the team finished eighth, then fourth in each of the following two years before mounting a very strong title bid in 2018-19 (finished one point behind Manchester City) and winning the Champions League final. Arguably the ultimate goal, being crowned champions for the first time since 1990, came this summer after a dominant year at the top of the table.

It wasn’t just about incomings, like the arrivals of Sadio Mane in 2016, Mohamed Salah a year later and Virgil van Dijk and Alisson in 2018. During Klopp’s first pre-season tour, defender Mamadou Sakho was sent home from the USA for missing treatment sessions, being late for a team meal and also for the flight over there. The France international never played for the club again, and it sent a message to the group that the coach wouldn’t tolerate any indiscipline.

Like Chelsea are now, Liverpool were struggling defensively at that time. Centre-half Martin Skrtel and full-back Jose Enrique went through the Anfield exit door too. Two strikers inherited from Brendan Rodgers who didn’t meet Klopp’s requirements, Christian Benteke and Mario Balotelli, were also moved on.

As has been well documented, the decision to sell Philippe Coutinho to Barcelona in January 2018, meant they could make the key acquisitions of Van Dijk and Alisson that year. But it wasn’t just about the money the Brazilian forward brought in to fund these transfers — Klopp is very passionate about unity, so it never sat well with him trying to make someone stay who didn’t want to be there.

Pep Guardiola experienced teething problems on joining Manchester City in 2016, as the rather underwhelming third-place finish in his debut season demonstrated. He came under a lot of criticism, but then won back-to-back Premier League titles in his second and third years.

The former Barcelona and Bayern Munich coach showed his biggest ruthlessness in the goalkeeping department, something Lampard can relate to having just brought in Edouard Mendy to effectively start ahead of Kepa Arrizabalaga, who the club had made the most expensive player ever at the position just two years ago.

Guardiola wanted a ball-playing goalkeeper at Manchester City from the outset. He had a meeting with Joe Hart but the long-time England No 1 didn’t really show any interest in changing his game, so his career there was over. He spent two seasons out on loan until his contract expired. Claudio Bravo arrived from Barcelona to take over, but after struggling in English football, Ederson was bought the next summer to replace the replacement.

Having City’s riches obviously helped in the market and other important players in Kyle Walker, Gabriel Jesus, Aymeric Laporte, Bernardo Silva, Leroy Sane and John Stones all arrived within the first 18 months under Guardiola.

There were issues between Guardiola and key midfielder Yaya Toure from a very early stage. Toure wasn’t ignored completely over Guardiola’s first two seasons, as his total of 48 appearances shows, but he was gradually phased out and played little part in the 2017-18 title triumph before leaving for Olympiakos.

Mauricio Pochettino has no silverware to show for the five years he spent managing Tottenham, however no one can dispute he took the club to another level. His first campaign saw Spurs finish fifth, then they had two good attempts at becoming champions only to end up third behind Leicester in 2016 and runners-up to Chelsea a year later. There was also the very notable achievement of getting to last year’s Champions League final.

The Argentinian showed a ruthless streak too.

Aaron Lennon and Emmanuel Adebayor weren’t given squad numbers for the start of the 2015-16 season and soon left for Everton and Crystal Palace respectively. There were other members of what has been referred to as the “bomb squad” who Pochettino got rid of 12 months after joining from Southampton — Benoit Assou-Ekotto, Younes Kaboul and Etienne Capoue. They were joined by Andros Townsend, who paid the price for having an on-pitch row with club fitness coach Nathan Gardiner and was sold to Newcastle. Pochettino made it clear that you were expendable unless a player was 100 per cent committed to his methods.

These departures made room for Harry Kane, Eric Dier, Ryan Mason and Nabil Bentaleb to become regulars — although the latter also ended up as a fringe figure after a falling-out with Pochettino, got loaned out for 2016-17 then was sold that summer.

It may be stating the obvious to highlight managers making changes, because everyone does. But Lampard will surely believe he shouldn’t be judged until he has had an opportunity to make the Chelsea squad more closely mirror what he wants.

The problem is, many of those who have been sacked from his position by Abramovich felt exactly the same way.

[ZaynChelsea 423]

Watching our play is a boring pain in the ass

[kellzfresh 7,229]

4 minutes ago, ZaynChelsea said:

Watching our play is a boring pain in the ass

He's sticking with Jorginho so expect Sarriball. 

I actually think our defending has improved but our attacking has become worse 

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

Vindicated. Great performance great result. Pulisic fit again.

the best was the amazing defense. IMO our best back 4 combination. Absolutely flawless, zouma a tank, Azpi and Silva provided the leadership when needed. Chilwell with one of the best LB performances in years. Simply a great team performance but shit tactics and coaching I guess -.-

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Vindicated. Great performance great result. Pulisic fit again.

the best was the amazing defense. IMO our best back 4 combination. Absolutely flawless, zouma a tank, Azpi and Silva provided the leadership when needed. Chilwell with one of the best LB performances in years. Simply a great team performance but shit tactics and coaching I guess -.-

If people are gonna tell others not to criticize Lampard after a defeat or even a draw, then I think the same people shouldn't go overboard and say Lampard is vindicated after one win. If people are gonna say this takes time, let's see what will happen in the coming matches, weeks, months after a bad result, then it's the same case here after a win.

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

The worst thing for Lampard would be to change that backline and midfield pairing. 

Otherwise, improvement.

 

Defensively solid - Check

Defended set pieces - Check

Killing the game off - Check 

[killer1257 3,282]

Lampard out...

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Lampard out...

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk
 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Now maintain that back four. Stop rotating, let them get to know themselves better. 

I like that we are making more tactical fouls when we lose the ball. No need to allow a counter fester when you can stop it early at source immediately. 

Now put Werner back in his position and Pulisic on the left with Havertz in the middle and Odoi on the right and we have a very dynamic team in attack.

[Fernando 6,455]

Attack was not great, but at this point it's important to improve defense and that we did. 

Attack will come later once everyone is fit and more time to work together. 

I still think we are in pre season mode so expect freak results. 

My timeline continues to be November, I will have a better understanding of this team by then. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

International break. 

Honestly baffling this is happening. So not only do we have to worry about no injuries, we have to worry no one contracts Covid-19. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

2 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

International break. 

Honestly baffling this is happening. So not only do we have to worry about no injuries, we have to worry no one contracts Covid-19. 

Its fucking BS, nothing more than greedy cunts.

[Jase 43,479]

18 hours ago, Vesper said:

Will Abramovich give Lampard time to build a squad like Klopp and Guardiola?

https://theathletic.com/2104345/2020/10/02/lampard-abramovich-sack-marina-chelsea/

Not good enough. Tactically naive. Time to go. These were just some of the sentiments expressed by supporters about Chelsea coach Frank Lampard following their Carabao Cup exit to Tottenham.

The level of vitriol from sections of the fanbase was surprising. Nobody would suggest it has been a good opening to the season, but the progress and promise of what happened in Lampard’s 2019-20 debut campaign seems to have already been forgotten or discounted. There is only one opinion which truly counts at Stamford Bridge and that is obviously what the hierarchy, most notably owner Roman Abramovich, thinks. History shows patience is not a virtue in the blue corner of west London when things are going awry.

But Chelsea are not only just five games into 2020-21, but Lampard’s plans for the squad are also in their infancy too. One transfer window, even if over £200 million has been spent in bringing seven new players through the door, isn’t going to fix the malaise that was allowed to develop long before the former Chelsea midfielder returned as head coach.

Between 2015-19, Chelsea spent more than £650 million on 29 players. Having three different managers — Jose Mourinho, Antonio Conte and Maurizio Sarri — come and go in that time before Lampard took over meant the squad was always going to be subject to a lot of change. The vast majority of those 29 have now left, either permanently or on loan. Of the 11 remaining, only N’Golo Kante, Christian Pulisic and Mateo Kovacic can feel confident they are part of Lampard’s long-term thinking.

Players such as Jorginho, Emerson, Marcos Alonso and Kepa Arrizabalaga have had game time, but Chelsea are prepared to listen to offers for all four before the window shuts on Monday. Veterans Willy Caballero and Olivier Giroud have featured too, however their ages mean this is surely their last season at the club.

In other words, before this summer’s exciting splurge on Hakim Ziyech, Timo Werner and Kai Havertz, Chelsea haven’t recruited very well. They failed to capitalise on winning the title in 2015 and 2017 by strengthening with great quality. It made the transfer ban of last year an even bigger blow, especially for Lampard as he couldn’t make the kind of changes any new appointment in the dugout would want.

There is an element of luck when it comes to recruitment. No one can ever be 100 per cent sure that a signing will work out. There was understandable optimism, for example, about Alvaro Morata’s arrival in 2017. He had shown ability at Juventus and Real Madrid, yet simply failed to cope with the pressure of being Chelsea’s front man, and was not helped by a niggling back injury.

But a lot of cash has been frittered away on players such as Davide Zappacosta, Baba Rahman (a knee injury didn’t help him either), Michy Batshuayi and Emerson. They’re obviously not terrible footballers, but hardly the kind you need to compete for the Premier League or Champions League every year.

Tiemoue Bakayoko and Danny Drinkwater didn’t exactly set the pulses racing after being bought for a combined £75 million in 2017. They have just 29 Premier League starts for Chelsea between them and it’s over two years since either appeared in the first team of a club now back in the unenviable position of frantically trying to offload them ahead of Monday night’s transfer deadline.

A manager will always have to take responsibility for bad results and inevitably pay the price for when things go wrong. Lampard knows this. But Chelsea were never going to be a quick fix, no matter who was in the dugout, because of mistakes made in the past.

Chelsea’s decline as a major force in the game is borne out by their failure to get past the Champions League’s last 16 since their run to the semi-finals in the 2013-14 season. Reaching the last four of that competition used to be commonplace — they got that far on seven occasions between 2004-2014 and went on to make two finals, including lifting the trophy in 2012.

When Lampard held talks with Werner and Havertz about joining Chelsea, he talked to them about a three-year project to get the side back to challenging for the biggest trophies on a regular basis, a view he’s bound to have also shared with the board. It is encouraging he has been backed to such an extent and notable that the top brass granted his request for a new goalkeeper. But with that comes much greater expectations.

One of the accusations being labelled at Lampard from fans and pundits is that there haven’t been many signs of improvement so far. It is hardly a surprise considering the new arrivals have just 12 starts between them in all competitions, with Ziyech not featuring at all yet because of a knee problem while another important squad member in Pulisic has also not played a game because of a hamstring injury.

On top of that, this isn’t “Lampard’s squad” yet. There will be players the Englishman inherited that he doesn’t see adapting to his way of thinking or right attitude, let alone his style of play. The Athletic has been informed the atmosphere is a bit tense at the moment because there are a few individuals who are angling for a move and/or frustrated about not being involved enough. An indication of this came in the aftermath of Saturday’s draw with West Bromwich Albion and Marcos Alonso’s lack of discipline.

It is going to take more than one window for Lampard to address all of this and an inevitable question the powers-that-be at Chelsea will face should negative results continue is how long are they prepared to wait? But they only have to look at some of their Premier League rivals to see the rewards that can come if you’re patient.

Take Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp, for example. They are a formidable force now, but a lot of work was involved to get here. A glance at the league positions alone show that after Klopp arrived in October 2015, the team finished eighth, then fourth in each of the following two years before mounting a very strong title bid in 2018-19 (finished one point behind Manchester City) and winning the Champions League final. Arguably the ultimate goal, being crowned champions for the first time since 1990, came this summer after a dominant year at the top of the table.

It wasn’t just about incomings, like the arrivals of Sadio Mane in 2016, Mohamed Salah a year later and Virgil van Dijk and Alisson in 2018. During Klopp’s first pre-season tour, defender Mamadou Sakho was sent home from the USA for missing treatment sessions, being late for a team meal and also for the flight over there. The France international never played for the club again, and it sent a message to the group that the coach wouldn’t tolerate any indiscipline.

Like Chelsea are now, Liverpool were struggling defensively at that time. Centre-half Martin Skrtel and full-back Jose Enrique went through the Anfield exit door too. Two strikers inherited from Brendan Rodgers who didn’t meet Klopp’s requirements, Christian Benteke and Mario Balotelli, were also moved on.

As has been well documented, the decision to sell Philippe Coutinho to Barcelona in January 2018, meant they could make the key acquisitions of Van Dijk and Alisson that year. But it wasn’t just about the money the Brazilian forward brought in to fund these transfers — Klopp is very passionate about unity, so it never sat well with him trying to make someone stay who didn’t want to be there.

Pep Guardiola experienced teething problems on joining Manchester City in 2016, as the rather underwhelming third-place finish in his debut season demonstrated. He came under a lot of criticism, but then won back-to-back Premier League titles in his second and third years.

The former Barcelona and Bayern Munich coach showed his biggest ruthlessness in the goalkeeping department, something Lampard can relate to having just brought in Edouard Mendy to effectively start ahead of Kepa Arrizabalaga, who the club had made the most expensive player ever at the position just two years ago.

Guardiola wanted a ball-playing goalkeeper at Manchester City from the outset. He had a meeting with Joe Hart but the long-time England No 1 didn’t really show any interest in changing his game, so his career there was over. He spent two seasons out on loan until his contract expired. Claudio Bravo arrived from Barcelona to take over, but after struggling in English football, Ederson was bought the next summer to replace the replacement.

Having City’s riches obviously helped in the market and other important players in Kyle Walker, Gabriel Jesus, Aymeric Laporte, Bernardo Silva, Leroy Sane and John Stones all arrived within the first 18 months under Guardiola.

There were issues between Guardiola and key midfielder Yaya Toure from a very early stage. Toure wasn’t ignored completely over Guardiola’s first two seasons, as his total of 48 appearances shows, but he was gradually phased out and played little part in the 2017-18 title triumph before leaving for Olympiakos.

Mauricio Pochettino has no silverware to show for the five years he spent managing Tottenham, however no one can dispute he took the club to another level. His first campaign saw Spurs finish fifth, then they had two good attempts at becoming champions only to end up third behind Leicester in 2016 and runners-up to Chelsea a year later. There was also the very notable achievement of getting to last year’s Champions League final.

The Argentinian showed a ruthless streak too.

Aaron Lennon and Emmanuel Adebayor weren’t given squad numbers for the start of the 2015-16 season and soon left for Everton and Crystal Palace respectively. There were other members of what has been referred to as the “bomb squad” who Pochettino got rid of 12 months after joining from Southampton — Benoit Assou-Ekotto, Younes Kaboul and Etienne Capoue. They were joined by Andros Townsend, who paid the price for having an on-pitch row with club fitness coach Nathan Gardiner and was sold to Newcastle. Pochettino made it clear that you were expendable unless a player was 100 per cent committed to his methods.

These departures made room for Harry Kane, Eric Dier, Ryan Mason and Nabil Bentaleb to become regulars — although the latter also ended up as a fringe figure after a falling-out with Pochettino, got loaned out for 2016-17 then was sold that summer.

It may be stating the obvious to highlight managers making changes, because everyone does. But Lampard will surely believe he shouldn’t be judged until he has had an opportunity to make the Chelsea squad more closely mirror what he wants.

The problem is, many of those who have been sacked from his position by Abramovich felt exactly the same way.

This is a very lazy piece of journalism TBH, especially coming from The Athletic. The comparison argument feels like one straight out of a fan forum. Yes, Klopp and Guardiola were given time to build their team at Liverpool and Man City respectively but the one key difference between them and Lampard is that they already had a track record of success before they joined their current club. So Liverpool and Man City knew that while things may not go according to plan to begin with, they knew they will actually turn out to be alright. They knew what they were getting from Klopp and Guardiola. But what track record does Lampard have as a manager before joining us? Only 1 year of managerial experience in the Championship. That's it. We don't have much to fall back on apart from what Lampard is doing right now at the club. We can only judge him based on what we have seen over the last 13-14 months and one can hardly be blamed for questioning him (and no, don't confuse this with asking Lampard to be sacked). A better way to go about arguing whether Lampard will be given time (by Roman) would be to analyze what he has done right, what he has done wrong and what he needs to do to ensure we as a club progress and achieve the objectives we want to achieve. Heck, it might even be good to get some inside info! All the talking is one thing but ultimately, it's all about progression and getting results. 

[Puliiszola 519]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

This is a very lazy piece of journalism TBH, especially coming from The Athletic. The comparison argument feels like one straight out of a fan forum. Yes, Klopp and Guardiola were given time to build their team at Liverpool and Man City respectively but the one key difference between them and Lampard is that they already had a track record of success before they joined their current club. So Liverpool and Man City knew that while things may not go according to plan to begin with, they knew they will actually turn out to be alright. They knew what they were getting from Klopp and Guardiola. But what track record does Lampard have as a manager before joining us? Only 1 year of managerial experience in the Championship. That's it. We don't have much to fall back on apart from what Lampard is doing right now at the club. We can only judge him based on what we have seen over the last 13-14 months and one can hardly be blamed for questioning him (and no, don't confuse this with asking Lampard to be sacked). A better way to go about arguing whether Lampard will be given time (by Roman) would be to analyze what he has done right, what he has done wrong and what he needs to do to ensure we as a club progress and achieve the objectives we want to achieve. Heck, it might even be good to get some inside info! All the talking is one thing but ultimately, it's all about progression and getting results. 

Did barca or bvb know it too?

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Did barca or bvb know it too?

Dortmund were in financial trouble back then and had to be built back up. They weren't at the level that they are now. So they could obviously take a punt on a relatively unknown Klopp back then.

For Guardiola-Barcelona, I don't necessarily disagree with you but it definitely helps when he had the best player in the world. And just because it worked for him, it doesn't mean it'll work with others.

In any case, that isn't the comparison argument used by The Athletic, is it? I simply disagree with what they said. 

[Puliiszola 519]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Dortmund were in financial trouble back then and had to be built back up. They weren't at the level that they are now. So they could obviously take a punt on a relatively unknown Klopp back then.

For Guardiola-Barcelona, I don't necessarily disagree with you but it definitely helps when he had the best player in the world. And just because it worked for him, it doesn't mean it'll work with others.

In any case, that isn't the comparison argument used by The Athletic, is it? I simply disagree with what they said. 

You said that pep and Klopp were established manager hence given time. I am giving you proof to the contrary, that taking a punt on an unproven manager can/has/will work. 

What did we get by trusting "proven" managers like sarri. Conte gave us a league title but at what cost, left us with alonsos, emersons, bakayokos, moratas. Jose got us a league title at what cost/? Kdb, salah. 

I think it's high time we realise that instant gratification ever hardly develops into a stable and long term success. Like most of the long term success stories, we will have to pay our due. So far FL has shown worth the trust, be it with our 4th position finish (when no one expected us in top 6), with his transfer targets and dealings, or general play

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Puliiszola said:

You said that pep and Klopp were established manager hence given time. I am giving you proof to the contrary, that taking a punt on an unproven manager can/has/will work. 

What did we get by trusting "proven" managers like sarri. Conte gave us a league title but at what cost, left us with alonsos, emersons, bakayokos, moratas. Jose got us a league title at what cost/? Kdb, salah. 

I think it's high time we realise that instant gratification ever hardly develops into a stable and long term success. Like most of the long term success stories, we will have to pay our due. So far FL has shown worth the trust, be it with our 4th position finish (when no one expected us in top 6), with his transfer targets and dealings, or general play

Firstly, I do not know why you and maybe even some others are so sensitive to any negative thing said against Lampard that you must respond immediately. Why? Is it a crime?

Secondly, I wasn't even criticizing Lampard. I was merely disagreeing with the points Simon Johnson used in his piece and given he used the Klopp-Liverpool and Guardiola-Man City comparison as opposed to say what you mentioned - Klopp-Dortmund and Guardiola-Barcelona - was I wrong in stating the facts above? And given the kind of reputation The Athletic have built and the access that their journalists have, I was expecting more from them than putting out arguments that can be found elsewhere on the internet.