Super Frank Thread

[Tomo 21,733]

A quick note re the defense.

Villa were the 2nd worst defense in the league last season and now with a new keeper addition are arguably the best with the same defenders, Liverpool (previously the world's best defensive unit) have declined to a parody since Alisson has been crocked even with VVD.  

I think people underestimate the difference Mendy will make if he's as much as competant. No it won't suddenly make us flawless before anyone says it but he will make a huge difference.

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

Think Roman and the board would be lining up replacements if that were to happen. 
 

Our spending this season is heavily reliant by finishing in the top 4 regularly. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Tomo said:

A quick note re the defense.

Villa were the 2nd worst defense in the league last season and now with a new keeper addition are arguably the best with the same defenders, Liverpool (previously the world's best defensive unit) have declined to a parody since Alisson has been crocked even with VVD.  

I think people underestimate the difference Mendy will make if he's as much as competant. No it won't suddenly make us flawless before anyone says it but he will make a huge difference.

OR maybe, they are defending better. Villa have allowed only 30 shots inside the box, which is the 7th lowest so far this season, and their xG conceded is 4.07, which is the second lowest so far this season.

[Tomo 21,733]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

OR maybe, they are defending better. Villa have allowed only 30 shots inside the box, which is the 7th lowest so far this season, and their xG conceded is 4.07, which is the second lowest so far this season.

Yeah but what's the more likely conclusion, Martinez has made a difference or Dean Smith has suddenly become a good defensive coach? Martinez isn't even making that many saves compared to Arsenal at the back end of last season but you can hear him shouting and organizing. Hopefully Mendy has a similar effect and the early sample size (1 conceded in his 2 games and i think only 3 saves needed to be made outside of that) is promising. Mendy, like Martinez, could shave of a high number of goals just by the fact the defense trust him more.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Yeah but what's the more likely conclusion, Martinez has made a difference or Dean Smith has suddenly become a good defensive coach? Martinez isn't even making that many saves compared to Arsenal at the back end of last season but you can hear him shouting and organizing. Hopefully Mendy has a similar effect and the early sample size (1 conceded in his 2 games and i think only 3 saves needed to be made outside of that) is promising. Mendy, like Martinez, could shave of a high number of goals just by the fact the defense trust him more.

Who knows? Managers and their coaches can always work on things and look to improve their side in the off season etc. New signings can make a difference but they aren't always the solution to problems.

[Jase 43,479]

Very Mourinho-esque excuse this - "it's not my fault, it's the players'"...

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

Guess it was the players fault Lampard didnt address the midfield issue until the 82nd minute. Something that essentially had us lose control that entire second half. 
 

 

[NikkiCFC 7,942]

10 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Guess it was the players fault Lampard didnt address the midfield issue until the 82nd minute. Something that essentially had us lose control that entire second half. 
 

 

I have seen nothing that suggest Kova was injured, he was seen at SB yesterday so it was Frank decision to have two strikers and two wingers on the bench but zero midfielders. This is quite ironic considering what he said after the game.

[Tomo 21,733]

2 hours ago, Mana said:

We should be beating Arsenal and Arteta comfortably. We haven't been. That's the point I'm getting across. 

Ok this season fair enough but last almost everyone put Arsenal above us pre season, especially after Pepe's signing.

[DANILA 290]

couple of players missing does not enable us to play this poorly - we have an inherent, fundamental issue with lampard's chelsea; no attacking tactics, horrendous defense (do we even practice defending in training?), park the bus philosophy, and having bottom table teams dominate for 10 minute periods (driven by no tactics). Patience is running low with FL - if we play this way in the next 3 games I hope he's out 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

 

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

OR maybe, they are defending better. Villa have allowed only 30 shots inside the box, which is the 7th lowest so far this season, and their xG conceded is 4.07, which is the second lowest so far this season.

Exactly. we allowed even less shots on average last season and had one of the best shots on target and xG statistic in the league last season still conceded a ton of goals. That’s the whole point. we concede a lot of goals despite conceding fewer shots than most teams. Gk makes a huge difference 

we are yet to concede a goal when both Mendy and Chilwell are playing. Albeit in just 155 mins. If we are still shipping 2-3  goals per game when those two are consistently starting, I am not gonna defend Lampard anymore but until then there is the benefit of the doubt 

[Jase 43,479]

Came across this in another forum...

[Johnnyeye 7,440]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Came across this in another forum...

the main problem is Lamps changing the backline too much, like you mentioned before, he is in his 2nd season and still hasnt figured out his best 11, let alone best center back pairing, very worrying

[killer1257 3,282]

Very Mourinho-esque excuse this - "it's not my fault, it's the players'"...
 

Yes, Lampard told Zouma to play passes that are too short to the keeper and Lampard told Kepa that when Zouma plays to him a pass that is too short, just come out too slow and dive like an idiot and don't get the ball.
Lampard also told specifically to Havertz to dribble past one player, then turn completely around 360 degree and give the ball to the opponent, so they could score a goal against us. Yes, Lampard wanted us to drop points.

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

[lucio 5,418]

18 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Yes, Lampard told Zouma to play passes that are too short to the keeper and Lampard told Kepa that when Zouma plays to him a pass that is too short, just come out too slow and dive like an idiot and don't get the ball.
Lampard also told specifically to Havertz to dribble past one player, then turn completely around 360 degree and give the ball to the opponent, so they could score a goal against us. Yes, Lampard wanted us to drop points.

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk
 

I doubt having werner spin past a defender and score a brilliant solo goal out of nothing was a specific tactic either. If you cant accept blame for individual  errors in the team don't take credit for individual brilliance. But really you have to look at the whole gameplan and management as a whole and that has rarely been good enough 

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

58 minutes ago, lucio said:

I doubt having werner spin past a defender and score a brilliant solo goal out of nothing was a specific tactic either. If you cant accept blame for individual  errors in the team don't take credit for individual brilliance. But really you have to look at the whole gameplan and management as a whole and that has rarely been good enough 

Pretty sure that play indeed was rehearsed albeit the finish was improvised. It is a signature move from Werner but the player passing to him needs to be instructed where and how hard to pass so the dummy makes the Ball run into space

[Vesper 28,787]

Why Chelsea gave up their lead so meekly

https://theathletic.com/2144166/2020/10/18/chelsea-southampton-premier-league/

Long before it arrived in the 92nd minute, Southampton’s equaliser felt inevitable. Pinned back by a combination of Ralph Hasenhuttl’s high press and their own mistakes, Chelsea had conceded a steady stream of good chances prior to Jannik Vestergaard glancing Theo Walcott’s shot just inside Kepa Arrizabalaga’s far post. Nine of the visitors’ 13 shots came in the second half, six of them from inside the box, four of which found the target.

This isn’t a new problem for Chelsea under Frank Lampard; 15 of the 54 Premier League goals they conceded last season hit the net between minutes 76 and 90, giving them the third-worst late-game defensive record in the division, behind only Aston Villa (18) and relegated Norwich City (17). There were eight matches in which they failed to win after scoring first, yielding six draws and two defeats.

After the game, Lampard highlighted costly individual errors that made Southampton’s fightback possible, but there were also broader structural issues that set the stage for the visitors’ dominance in the second half at Stamford Bridge, and a failure of game management on the touchline as well as on the pitch. The Athletic went back through the footage to tell the story of another Chelsea masterclass in self-destruction.

53 minutes: Early in the second half it’s clear Southampton have set their stall out to try to dictate the direction of Chelsea’s play. Walcott and Nathan Redmond push up alongside Danny Ings and Che Adams to form a high wall of pressure in front of Jorginho, who has slotted in between Kurt Zouma and Andreas Christensen. Southampton are determined not to let their opponents build through the middle of the pitch, and any pass to N’Golo Kante is rendered far too risky.

Jorginho ultimately plays it to Zouma and the ball finds Ben Chilwell by the touchline. Timo Werner drops deep to offer a passing option, but James Ward-Prowse easily intercepts the attempt to find the Germany international. Southampton are on the front foot, and Chelsea’s midfield has been taken out of the game. This will become a recurring theme during the second half.

54 minutes: Cesar Azpilicueta is forced to foul Redmond just inside his own half after passing the ball straight to him. Ryan Bertrand floats the subsequent free kick to the far post, where Kai Havertz competes well in the air against Vestergaard but can’t clear the danger.

Neither can Zouma or Christian Pulisic, and the passage of play ends with Ings working a decent shooting chance just outside the box and firing wide.

56-57 minutes: Southampton work the ball around Chelsea’s own half-hearted press to the right touchline, where Kyle Walker-Peters shapes to play a pass inside towards Ward-Prowse. Jorginho recognises what is happening and moves to intercept…

… but he can’t get there in time, and Ward-Prowse whips a first-time pass over the top of Chelsea’s defence:

Zouma, under pressure from Adams, makes it clear from his body shape that he’s playing a pass back to Kepa. The ball is at an awkward height but provided he makes a solid contact, it shouldn’t matter. In the middle, Christensen has allowed Ings to drift a few yards in front of him, while Azpilicueta isn’t particularly worried:

The pass is scuffed, forcing Kepa to dash and slide in to make sure he gets there ahead of Adams. If he clears or smothers it, the danger is gone. If he doesn’t, the position that Christensen has allowed Ings to drift into means there will be big trouble:

Kepa somehow completely misses the ball. Christensen makes a brilliant recovery slide to prevent Adams from giving Ings a tap-in, but the ball is still live. Kepa flies back towards his own post but fails to clear again. Zouma has completely stopped, seemingly still hoping that one of his team-mates can redeem his initial mistake.

Only when Adams is pulling his foot back to shoot does Zouma attempt to get involved again, and by then it’s too late. The shot beats Kepa and Azpilicueta on the line:

71 minutes: A nice team move finished by Havertz almost immediately restored Chelsea’s lead, but they aren’t managing it well. Here, six blue shirts are in the Southampton half, none applying any pressure to Vestergaard as he winds up a long diagonal pass that will take them all out of the game:

Chilwell wins the header, but the result is a four-versus-four situation while Kante and Jorginho scramble to recover. With a one-goal lead, this type of situation simply shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

78 minutes: Lampard has made only one substitution, replacing Mount with Hakim Ziyech and sticking with 4-2-3-1, despite growing evidence that Jorginho and Kante are being overrun. Another header from Chilwell is brought down in the visiting midfield. Jorginho rushes forward to press Oriol Romeu but is easily sidestepped, opening an avenue to a relatively straightforward pass through to Walcott…

… and once again, Chelsea’s entire midfield and attack are bypassed, leaving Walcott free to drive at Lampard’s defence in another four-versus-four situation. He finds Adams, who shoots wide from the angle.

81 minutes: Chilwell has the ball on the left touchline again and, with Kante and Jorginho in no position to present a passing option, he elects to go long towards Werner. It worked in the first half, when Chelsea were able to turn Southampton’s defenders and get Werner running through on goal…

… but on this occasion there isn’t enough on the pass to get it over Vestergaard, and Werner has no chance of winning an aerial duel. Possession is cheaply lost and, seconds later, Jan Bednarek is allowed to advance into the Chelsea half. Walcott has taken up a great position between Chilwell, Kante and Pulisic:

The ball finds him, he drives into the box and crosses low for Ings, who is able to force a save out of Kepa:

85 minutes: Southampton’s press is relentless and Chelsea’s passing is getting more passive. Having just received the ball from Jorginho, Christensen tries to go back to him with Ings and Adams in close attendance. He manages to scramble it clear — just:

87 minutes: Lampard has finally moved to shore things up, bringing on Reece James for Pulisic and shifting to 4-3-3, but Chelsea continue to gift Southampton the ball. Azpilicueta tries to free Werner with a first-time ball over the top via his weaker left foot, but it hangs in the air and Bednarek easily takes it away:

90+1 minutes: After a panicky head-tennis sequence in Chelsea’s defensive third, the ball rolls kindly out to Ziyech. He has a relatively simple pass to free fellow substitute Tammy Abraham and Havertz, who are primed for a counterattack. Instead he plays it straight to Ibrahima Diallo:

Southampton almost immediately launch the ball towards Chelsea’s right-back position. James, eager to provide cover, dashes to deal with it but only succeeds in blocking off Bertrand. A free kick is given:

90+2 minutes: Havertz is once again stationed towards the back post, standing behind Walcott…

… but when Bertrand swings in the cross, Walcott is able to find space simply by standing still. Havertz runs away from him, Zouma heads the ball to him, and Vestergaard glances his shot inside Kepa’s far post:

“In the second half I wouldn’t blame the shape of the team, more that we didn’t deal with the fact that Southampton were really keen to put us under pressure in their own half,” Lampard said. “We wanted to miss out their press, we didn’t do enough and that meant we turned the ball over in our own half, which irrespective of shape is always a problem.

“There is certainly a game management element of it. We want to have a lead and see it off. We turn over the ball that led to the free kick and then it is about the second balls. There are a lot of elements that led to it, you can recreate that in training and talk about it a lot but it is very disappointing when it happens.”

Lampard is generally good at diagnosing the nature of Chelsea’s defensive problems after the fact, which makes the lack of improvement all the more puzzling. Last season yielded 54 goals conceded, the worst defensive record of the Roman Abramovich era. Five matches into 2020-21, they are on course to let in 68.

Unless that trend changes markedly, it’s hard to see how this expensively-assembled team — or their manager — can possibly meet significantly raised expectations.