Super Frank Thread

[kellzfresh 7,226]

Reminder that the very same players (plus David Luiz) under a different manager conceded a lot less goals and made less mistakes. Even Luiz, often mocked for his mistakes, has plenty to learn from this Chelsea. Sarcasm.
The mistakes appear to be individual and freaky, but they are not. They are systemic and consistent.

Lampard has to get a system of play and make the players master it. This way of playing possession today and hoofing the ball tomorrow is not helping the team. 

The team was committing tactical fouls in the previous match to nullify palace counterattacks, then suddenly I didn't see any of that yesterday. 

Lamps also didn't cope with the pressing from Southampton. Could have brought on Kovacic who is good on the ball under pressure, could have brought on Giroud/Abraham to help win those aerial balls from Kepa. Where is the tactical adaptability??

Lampard doesn't have much time. Everton, Tottenham and Arsenal are all playing much better and look like toppling us from the top four, even though we have spent 200mil to improve on 4th. We have 3 more teams to compete with for the champions league spots and that is worrisome with our current inconsistency 

[Tomo 21,680]

21 minutes ago, Jason said:

No, I don't believe Christensen is the better option, not when he is repeatedly given opportunities despite his constant mistakes. 

And are you explicitly saying Tomori is worse than Christensen?

I'm not saying definitely, i'm saying there's no guarantee. People (you included IIRC) were desperate to see Emerson under Sarri because he "couldn't be worse than Alonso", and he, well, was!

[Tomo 21,680]

3 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

Lampard doesn't have much time. Everton, Tottenham and Arsenal are all playing much better and look like toppling us from the top four, eventhoughwe have spent 200mil to improveon 4th. We have 3 more teams to compete with for the champions league spots and that is worrisome with our current inconsistency 

Everton i'll give but it's really annoying me Arsenal/Arteta being used as a favorable comparison. They've been rubbish under him despite the FA Cup.

[YorkshireBlue 2,823]

26 minutes ago, Jason said:

No, I don't believe Christensen is the better option, not when he is repeatedly given opportunities despite his constant mistakes. 

And are you explicitly saying Tomori is worse than Christensen?

What is your point exactly? Tomori was given an opportunity back then and he showed his qualities. Sure, he wasn't entirely perfect the whole time but he was playing his first Premier League games. Expecting perfection throughout is silly. 

Christensen plays badly but he continues to get selected. Tomori plays well (like against Liverpool, Spurs this season) but doesn't get rewarded.

Why is expecting perfection silly? From what I read on here ppl are already expecting perfection because we have signed 6 first team players who have had no pre season. Remember we have spent 200 million..... PERFECT WE MUST BE apparently.

[Jase 43,479]

16 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I'm not saying definitely, i'm saying there's no guarantee. People (you included IIRC) were desperate to see Emerson under Sarri because he "couldn't be worse than Alonso", and he, well, was!

I'll give you that but I'll still stand by what I said when I said I would prefer Emerson over Alonso (only comparison between the two!) simply because of the difference in athleticism and if we're talking about a back 4 system.

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, BluesMadLad said:

Why is expecting perfection silly? From what I read on here ppl are already expecting perfection because we have signed 6 first team players who have had no pre season. Remember we have spent 200 million..... PERFECT WE MUST BE apparently.

[Jase 43,479]

22 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Everton i'll give but it's really annoying me Arsenal/Arteta being used as a favorable comparison. They've been rubbish under him despite the FA Cup.

If you say Arsenal have been rubbish under Arteta, then what are we?

Both we and Arsenal have picked up the same number of points since Arteta took over (42) and outside of the league, they have won more games than us as well as a trophy (or 2 if you count the Community Shield).

[Tomo 21,680]

12 minutes ago, Jason said:

If you say Arsenal have been rubbish under Arteta, then what are we?

Both we and Arsenal have picked up the same number of points since Arteta took over (42) and outside of the league, they have won more games than us as well as a trophy (or 2 if you count the Community Shield).

Difference is we know Lampard has a way to go, Arteta's being made out to be incredible already and being used as an example as how Lampard should do things.

I mean if you think Lampard moving players is infuriating, Arteta just played Willian yes Willian upfront.

[ZaynChelsea 423]

LOL @ the people here laughing at Mourinho being a dinosaur and past it. He seems to have sorted out Spurs for the time being and I rate them higher atm than ourselves.

Our greenhorn isn‘t past it - he never reached it. Mourinho still won the league with us being past it. Lamps only spends without any positive outcome.

[Tomo 21,680]

1 minute ago, ZaynChelsea said:

LOL @ the people here laughing at Mourinho being a dinosaur and past it. He seems to have sorted out Spurs for the time being and I rate them higher atm than ourselves.

Lol you've been waiting for him to get a few wins just to say that haven't you? Reminds me of the Torres cult after he scored two games running.

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

28 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Everton i'll give but it's really annoying me Arsenal/Arteta being used as a favorable comparison. They've been rubbish under him despite the FA Cup.

Think rubbish is a strong word.

They struggled at times at the beginning but if you watch Arsenal under Emery and now the difference is night and day in terms of intensity and tempo. If that was there prior to Arteta’s appointment they would of made a better start. Also the styles so clear to see where as here I am still unsure what sort of team we are trying to be. If you want to compare the progression that we’ve made with Frank and what Arsenal have made with Arteta, theres one team who have definitely made the better progression where as we have gone backwards after a promising 3 and a bit/4 months at the start of last season. I think they will be up there as well.

Its going to be incredibly tight regardless because City, Liverpool, Everton, Spurs, us and Arsenal will all be going for 4 places, be it a primary objective or a minimum requirement. I am really surprised that Everton look really really good because with Carlo last it was very similar to what Jose had with Spurs last season also. Didn't look great.

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Difference is we know Lampard has a way to go, Arteta's being made out to be incredible already and being used as an example as how Lampard should do things.

I mean if you think Lampard moving players is infuriating, Arteta just played Willian yes Willian upfront.

I do think its just because of the instant change and improvement hes managed to get out of that group. Where as unfortunately we kind of went one step forward then 2 backwards, after a frustrating time with Sarri which you could argue lowered the fans expectations because it was seen as boring (although still think this style was always going to take time and you could see that with a decent CF and attacking players - much like we have signed now - that the goals would come) but really I would rather we had an identity which was clear to see and notice than being how we are right now. Which is I dont know what. Moments of quality from individuals has helped us but still very predictable.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

Difference is we know Lampard has a way to go

This was true up until a certain point last season. Now, it's all up in the air...

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Arteta's being made out to be incredible already and being used as an example as how Lampard should do things.

I mean if you think Lampard moving players is infuriating, Arteta just played Willian yes Willian upfront.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Arteta, who I think is a tad overhyped all because he was Guardiola's assistant. 

But he seems to have given Arsenal a bit more structure in terms of how they play as opposed to what we are seeing with our team. 

[Tomo 21,680]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

This was true up until a certain point last season. Now, it's all up in the air...

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Arteta, who I think is a tad overhyped all because he was Guardiola's assistant. 

But he seems to have given Arsenal a bit more structure in terms of how they play as opposed to what we are seeing with our team. 

Has he though? They regularly go long spells in games without even having a shot and if they were as solid at the back as people are making out Martinez wouldn't have been able to play his way to a big money transfer with a month's worth of performances. Infact they were getting torn apart by Liverpool (both Anfield games) in ways we weren't even with 10 men. 

[Tomo 21,680]

10 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Think rubbish is a strong word.

They struggled at times at the beginning but if you watch Arsenal under Emery and now the difference is night and day in terms of intensity and tempo. If that was there prior to Arteta’s appointment they would of made a better start. Also the styles so clear to see where as here I am still unsure what sort of team we are trying to be. If you want to compare the progression that we’ve made with Frank and what Arsenal have made with Arteta, theres one team who have definitely made the better progression where as we have gone backwards after a promising 3 and a bit/4 months at the start of last season. I think they will be up there as well.

Its going to be incredibly tight regardless because City, Liverpool, Everton, Spurs, us and Arsenal will all be going for 4 places, be it a primary objective or a minimum requirement. I am really surprised that Everton look really really good because with Carlo last it was very similar to what Jose had with Spurs last season also. Didn't look great.

I do think its just because of the instant change and improvement hes managed to get out of that group. Where as unfortunately we kind of went one step forward then 2 backwards, after a frustrating time with Sarri which you could argue lowered the fans expectations because it was seen as boring (although still think this style was always going to take time and you could see that with a decent CF and attacking players - much like we have signed now - that the goals would come) but really I would rather we had an identity which was clear to see and notice than being how we are right now. Which is I dont know what. Moments of quality from individuals has helped us but still very predictable.

But wasn't that similar with Emery at the start? Everyone got kiddy because he wasn't Wenger.

Arteta has basically stripped any creativity in this Arsenal side to try and make them look more solid and as i said it hasn't really worked, they may not concede 10 plus chances a game like they did under Emery but they are still heavily reliant on last season Martinez and now Leno to pull them through.

Their defense still looks pretty poor when you consider what's been sacrafised the other way, the two times we abandoned attack structure to focus on defense last season (Liverpool and City at home) we looked more solid.

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Has he though? They regularly go long spells in games without even having a shot and if they were as solid at the back as people are making out Martinez wouldn't have been able to play his way to a big money transfer with a month's worth of performances. Infact they were getting torn apart by Liverpool (both Anfield games) in ways we weren't even with 10 men. 

And we didn't get tear apart by Liverpool at Anfield last season?

What does having a structure gotta do with going long spells in games without having a shot etc? Are you telling me that Mourinho or Conte didn't have a structure for the team when we had similar games in the past?

[Atomiswave 6,072]

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

But wasn't that similar with Emery at the start? Everyone got kiddy because he wasn't Wenger.

Arteta has basically stripped any creativity in this Arsenal side to try and make them look more solid and as i said it hasn't really worked, they may not concede 10 plus chances a game like they did under Emery but they are still heavily reliant on last season Martinez and now Leno to pull them through.

Their defense still looks pretty poor when you consider what's been sacrafised the other way, the two times we abandoned attack structure to focus on defense last season (Liverpool and City at home) we looked more solid.

Arteta is trying to give them CL footy at all cost, I think they will get it unless Auba gets injured

[Tomo 21,680]

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

And we didn't get tear apart by Liverpool at Anfield last season?

What does having a structure gotta do with going long spells in games without having a shot etc? Are you telling me that Mourinho or Conte didn't have a structure for the team when we have similar games in the past?

That's the point, Arteta has tried to make them more defensively astute and hasn't really succeeded (unless you class better than Emery alone succeeding), they're still relying on their keepers pulling of a masterclass too often. For the amount of creative freedom he's took away from that side just to aid the defense, they shouldn't still be relying on their keepers as much as they still do. 

[ZaynChelsea 423]

41 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Lol you've been waiting for him to get a few wins just to say that haven't you? Reminds me of the Torres cult after he scored two games running.

So far they are doing much better than us. Where has our spending got us to?