Super Frank Thread

[killer1257 3,282]

Our whole squad is fit on Saturday. He has 0 excuses this time. If he fails to beat United or even loses against them then that says a lot about how our season will go.
I already said weeks ago that I don't believe that he is the right man for the job. That said, I still believe that he'll get us top four. That's why I have no problem of sticking with him for the rest of the season, and then replacing him next year. However, if he can't beat teams like United, with the whole squad being fit, then he might be sacked sooner than we thought. 
I repeat, Saturday will tell us a lot about our chances of getting top four this year. What do I think is going to happen? I think that we will beat Man UTD, but if that does not happen then Lampard is worse then I expected.

United just beat PSG. Without Pogba and Maguire , they are a decent side and as far as I have heard, both will probably not play against us.


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[Azul 1,615]

2 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

United just beat PSG. Without Pogba and Maguire , they are a decent side and as far as I have heard, both will probably not play against us.


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PSG was complete dogshit that game. I think their win overshadows the weaknesses they still have under Ole. 

If you compare our squads as well, you can tell that we have much more quality.

P.S. aren't you the same person that said that Jorginho was going to be good for the Sevilla game? He almost got a red card. 

[Fernando 6,376]

Jorgi is not good as 2 men midfield. 

I prefer Kova, even though it's not the greatest to have in Kova and Kante. But it should in theory give us more stability as defensive.

But offensive, Kova and Kante does not help us. 

So yeah our mid is not helping us at this moment. 

[Henrique 9,133]

I appreciate people trying to see positive things after a 0-0 against Sevilla, a game where the team for most part of the game had 40% of ball possession and where the GK was the best player. I bet those people believe in that theory: first you build a strong defense, then after that you can think about fixing the attacking approach. 

Reading Reddit its baffling the lack of ambition from some folks there: "0-0 is a fine result. Sevilla is a top team, they ended Bayern's 22 game win streak and until the weekend (when they had a man sent off in the first half) they hadn't lost since February, and they've played a number of good teams since then."

Sevilla ended last season in 4th in La Liga, and just look at their squad and the players they bought this season, but folks are happy with this kind of mediocre results, because you know, a club legend is the coach at moment. 

[Strike 6,960]

5 hours ago, Henrique said:

I appreciate people trying to see positive things after a 0-0 against Sevilla, a game where the team for most part of the game had 40% of ball possession and where the GK was the best player. I bet those people believe in that theory: first you build a strong defense, then after that you can think about fixing the attacking approach. 

Reading Reddit its baffling the lack of ambition from some folks there: "0-0 is a fine result. Sevilla is a top team, they ended Bayern's 22 game win streak and until the weekend (when they had a man sent off in the first half) they hadn't lost since February, and they've played a number of good teams since then."

Sevilla ended last season in 4th in La Liga, and just look at their squad and the players they bought this season, but folks are happy with this kind of mediocre results, because you know, a club legend is the coach at moment. 

Yep. Any other manager and the fans would be all over the team's issues which are mostly down to coaching, training.

[nofacej 132]

5 hours ago, Henrique said:

I appreciate people trying to see positive things after a 0-0 against Sevilla, a game where the team for most part of the game had 40% of ball possession and where the GK was the best player. I bet those people believe in that theory: first you build a strong defense, then after that you can think about fixing the attacking approach. 

Reading Reddit its baffling the lack of ambition from some folks there: "0-0 is a fine result. Sevilla is a top team, they ended Bayern's 22 game win streak and until the weekend (when they had a man sent off in the first half) they hadn't lost since February, and they've played a number of good teams since then."

Sevilla ended last season in 4th in La Liga, and just look at their squad and the players they bought this season, but folks are happy with this kind of mediocre results, because you know, a club legend is the coach at moment. 

Sevilla ended last season in 4th and we barely scraped 4th in the Premier League.

If you ignore the bullshit marketing hype that the Premier League is the best league in the world, it's not a bad result.

It's not a great result either - as Chelsea should be aspiring to be much better than 4th - but considering where we are in the rebuilding process, it's not cause for alarm just yet.

And for the record, I'm not convinced by Lampard either but I'm willing to give him a fair chance.

[bigbluewillie 1,805]

next summer we need to buy two of the following

Dayot Upamecano <<<< MUST Buy

+ José Giménez

or if not Giménez (manly due to his cost),

Matthias Ginter or Evan N'Dicka (left footed) or Edmond Tapsoba

 Like this

Can you please get this message across to Lampard, at least get Upmecano.

[Jase 43,479]

9 hours ago, Henrique said:

Reading Reddit its baffling the lack of ambition from some folks there: "0-0 is a fine result. Sevilla is a top team, they ended Bayern's 22 game win streak and until the weekend (when they had a man sent off in the first half) they hadn't lost since February, and they've played a number of good teams since then."

Sevilla ended Bayern's 22-game win streak?

They didn't. They drew with them after 90 minutes but still ended up losing within 120 minutes in the Super Cup anyway.

[lucio 5,395]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

Sevilla ended Bayern's 22-game win streak?

They didn't. They drew with them after 90 minutes but still ended up losing within 120 minutes in the Super Cup anyway.

There’s something about extra time and penalty matches officially being listed as a draw but yeh they lost 

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, lucio said:

There’s something about extra time and penalty matches officially being listed as a draw but yeh they lost 

Pretty sure they would still be counted as wins. They just might have an asterisk beside it to indicate it's won in extra time or on penalties.

[Strike 6,960]

54 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Feel that the league will settle by November-December with same top 2 and a biggish chasing pack

[0007 511]

16 hours ago, Henrique said:

I appreciate people trying to see positive things after a 0-0 against Sevilla, a game where the team for most part of the game had 40% of ball possession and where the GK was the best player. I bet those people believe in that theory: first you build a strong defense, then after that you can think about fixing the attacking approach. 

Reading Reddit its baffling the lack of ambition from some folks there: "0-0 is a fine result. Sevilla is a top team, they ended Bayern's 22 game win streak and until the weekend (when they had a man sent off in the first half) they hadn't lost since February, and they've played a number of good teams since then."

Sevilla ended last season in 4th in La Liga, and just look at their squad and the players they bought this season, but folks are happy with this kind of mediocre results, because you know, a club legend is the coach at moment. 

Absolutely spot on. Sevilla are a good team but we were the home side. And Sevilla is not  one of the top teams in Europe - this narrative is just another excuse.Not to mention the players we brought in in comparison to what transfers they made.

Also, you can't compare being 4th in Spain with being 4th in England. Our revenue is much bigger and our buyings say much about it. Winning EL is not a criteria either - we won it last year but we were inconsistent and definitely not top CL material. 

I love Frank  so much but his CV as a manager doesn't have anything to have us hope for an improvement and he is here as a manager,not as the legend he is as a player. 

[killer1257 3,282]

Absolutely spot on. Sevilla are a good team but we were the home side. And Sevilla is not  one of the top teams in Europe - this narrative is just another excuse.Not to mention the players we brought in in comparison to what transfers they made.
Also, you can't compare being 4th in Spain with being 4th in England. Our revenue is much bigger and our buyings say much about it. Winning EL is not a criteria either - we won it last year but we were inconsistent and definitely not top CL material. 
I love Frank  so much but his CV as a manager doesn't have anything to have us hope for an improvement and he is here as a manager,not as the legend he is as a player. 

Sevilla beat Wolves, United (3rd im England) and Inter Mailand. Sevilla also is a pressing machine. They are much better than TC give them credit for. I remember last year when we drew Valencia 2-2 and TC people went nuts, because they said Valencia are a garbage team and I thought to myself "WTF, Valencia lost 5 times in 5 years at home or something like that. They are one of the most dominant home teams in the world lol".

Since Corona, the home advantage is not that important no more. Every match feels the same.

And buying new players is good, but these players have to find rhythm and need time to adapt with the new team. Takes time.

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[Tomo 21,681]

8 hours ago, lucio said:

There’s something about extra time and penalty matches officially being listed as a draw but yeh they lost 

Not with extra time but when it goes to penalty's the match is (rightly) classed as a draw. The shoot-out is a tie breaker.

[Jase 43,479]

What exactly is Frank Lampard's Chelsea? (note the 9th paragraph below...)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/23/exactly-frank-lampards-chelsea/

During the two and a bit seasons of Frank Lampard’s fledgling career as a manager there has been a prefix to the teams he has coached: first it was Frank Lampard’s Derby County and now, even despite the size and scale of the club, Frank Lampard’s Chelsea.

That owes much to the profile of one of the Premier League’s greatest players – except what is Frank Lampard’s Chelsea? For a club who have largely employed coaches with a clearly defined, if varying, approach and style of play, their former midfielder is yet to stamp a true identity on them as he prepares for Saturday's trip to Manchester United, his opponents for his first game in charge 14 months ago.

Maybe his apparent pragmatism is born of the knowledge that it is all well and good to attempt to lay down a philosophy but – at Chelsea above most clubs – there is only one true approach: to win. Even so the 42-year-old accepts that the question is a fair one.

“I do have a pretty clear picture but I’m not one to sit here and lay out all my plans,” Lampard said. 

“I find it’s always a tough question. It can sound brilliant, and sound like I’m finishing my Pro Licence [coaching badge] and putting in how I think my team should play. The reality of football is that it moves on a lot. Last season I think was very positive for us as a team because we had an identity of a team that worked very hard off the ball and created a lot of chances, tried to get higher up the pitch and made a lot of steps forward while also needing to make further steps. 

“This season, where we have new players who have come in, I definitely felt before the season there would be, not a levelling out process but a period where we had to work again and see the new players.

“The message cannot always be the same for players with different attributes. So that’s why I don’t want to commit to what would be my ideal philosophy in six months, a year’s time, two years’ time, because in real time you have to work with the players you have and just keep trying to improve.”

Nevertheless, a year before Carlo Ancelotti became Chelsea manager in 2009, Roman Abramovich confided in him that he had fallen out of love with the team because they did not “have a personality”. It may well be that the owner felt the same about Chelsea when it came to dismissing Sarri and eventually employing Lampard.

Lampard negotiated a difficult first campaign, with the transfer ban, impressively, but he also surely knows that on the back of such huge spending and apparent renewed enthusiasm from the Russian billionaire in the last window, expectation within the club has risen sharply. That applies not just to results but also to style of play and organisation, with murmurings from around Chelsea and those who know Abramovich in recent weeks over some of the poor defensive displays – as three goals were conceded away to West Bromwich Albion and at home to Southampton. It is not just the goals but the manner of them and the opposition.

In addition, the statistic that Chelsea have given away 63 goals in 43 league games under Lampard – the worst of any manager at the club – has not gone unnoticed even if, during the same period, only Manchester City have conceded fewer shots. 

Lampard has got his way in replacing the world’s most expensive goalkeeper, Kepa Arrizabalaga, who he inherited and who is out injured with a damaged shoulder for Saturday’s trip to Manchester United, with Edouard Mendy. But he is still searching for greater consistency in his team which should stem from a more settled defence, even if that appears dependent on 36-year-old Thiago Silva.

It is something Lampard needs to sort out quickly and especially in a season which can be looked at in two ways: the unpredictability means there are unlikely to be runaway leaders and ground is not being lost but, also, that there is an opportunity that can be exploited.

With Hakim Ziyech coming on during the midweek Champions League fixture against Sevilla, which ended in a disappointing draw but with the bonus of a clean sheet, it meant Chelsea had their six new signings on the pitch for the first time. Lampard’s shift of formation to a 4-2-3-1 from 4-3-3 appears more in an effort to fit players in rather than to implement a system that he believes in.

“I am seeing some signs [of improvement],” he said. “But I also know we have brought in six players who have come in to compete for our first XI … I knew this would be something that would take some time. We missed a pre-season – so our time now is real-life games which is not always great.”

That extends, Lampard said, to not being able to play 11 v 11 matches at times with the first-team squad in one Covid “bubble” and the under-23s, for example, in another. It means it is hard to “replicate” games in training. There will be sympathy from the Chelsea hierarchy over that, but there is also a growing sense that Lampard needs to stamp an identity on this richly assembled squad.

[Jase 43,479]

 

[OneMoSalah 8,614]

What was alarming for me and am a bit relieved its finally being mentioned now more regularly is people questioning or saying that Frank now has to find a solution for us leaking goals and cannot just blame individual errors because you can only excuse individual errors to a certain degree, if they keep happening as they have done here, it would indicate something deeper rooted. There was a lot of Chelsea need a keeper, Chelsea need a LB, Chelsea need a CB but now we've got all 3 who are big improvement son what we had so I think this season if that improvement cannot be clearly visible by the end of the season it will be a big big indication that its more to do with coaching that people originally would be willing to put it down to. 

I feel that his spell at Derby, I think which was spoken about more with positivity because he got them to the playoff final, was there when they shifted some higher earners, guys like Mount, Bogle, Tomori etc became part of the furniture for that season as well as reducing the age of their squad etc but their goal difference and the goals they conceded from set plays (he questioned his players on them in a game v Birmingham - https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-frank-lampard-said-derby-2780645 - note he says we are not the biggest team.... where have I heard that before, was it West Ham last season? and it was a bit of a recurring theme and again has been the same here) which seemed to be totally overlooked when he was linked with the job. It should of been a potential warning. I hoped somebody who's Derby team conceded 70 goals in 57 games in all competitions (1.22 per game) would manage to improve upon that with better players but I think looking back at it, a big deal here has been in game management, set plays and organisation it has been alarming. I mean we've had some bad spells here and looked poor defensively with other managers but FL's goals against record is the worst of any Chelsea manager in the Abramovich era which says a lot. I mean if Sarri had the 3rd best defence in the PL behind Liverpool and City 2 seasons ago although at times we weren't particularly too solid, it would indicate that for Frank that's still not too bad a platform to start with. Even if it needed improved upon. Its gotten worse for whatever reason - more for me coaching wise due to the structure, the organisation and the fact Frank is much more of a forward thinking manager (but so was Sarri) than the likes of a Conte or a Jose. 

I mean I get the quality difference would perhaps contribute a bit but even then look at Pep's first ever season as a manager with Barcelona B, 38 games, 41 goals conceded (1.08 per game). Then Zidane's record as his first ever managerial experience with Madrid's Castilla, 58 games, 57 goals conceded (0.98 per game). I think these things perhaps should of indicated a sign that these things can actually transmit over regardless of the level as its more to do with playing style or the tactical system or the coaches ideas as opposed to actual individuals making mistakes as we've probably seen with Frank so far here - although individuals have definitely contributed and these things do happen with players at some point as its impossible to play a perfect season, everyone makes a mistake. I know its maybe a bit unfair to pick them as comparisons as they've been successful in their careers but I look at them in the same mould as Lampard, a club legend who was given the job with 1 seasons of managerial experience. I don't think that's necessarily unfair. They've achieved more but I think you look at their records at Madrid and Barcelona defensively in terms of goals against and I think if Frank was given the same time as they are, his record will be a lot lot worse.

I know people will say Klopp also had a dodgy defence at Liverpool when he first came in but really bar Joe Gomez who has grown into a much better CB over time (signed the year Klopp was appointed but by Rodgers prior to his sacking in whenever it was), I don't think he had the luxury of having players that were at the level Zouma, Christensen and Rudiger were (excluded Tomori as he was back from loan). Even if they are seen as average or not good enough for title winning teams they guys for me, were certainly better than the likes of Sakho, Skrtl, Toure, Caulker, Lovren and Lucas who Klopp played as CB and Liverpool only conceded 50 goals in the PL that season. Even then the next season they conceded only 42 goals in the PL (we conceded 54 last season), with pretty much a similar selection bar Matip and Klavan signing for them and Toure and Sktrl being sold. So it is interesting people say Klopp needed time because he instantly had a better defensive record than Lampard when he took over at Liverpool although I do get it, Lampard is a lot more inexperienced and maybe will need to learn that but even Pep's first season at City they didn't concede as many as we did last season. Again I know they are top level coaches, who have coached for longer but they were the instant barometer in terms of look how long they guys took to get their defences to improve or to be successful. The successful part is true yes, they needed time but the defensive improvement I don't think its as valid as some make out. 

43 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

That is a good stat but again, I think here more so than ever, it is pretty irrelevant stat because people expect us to be successful with or without the kids unfortunately.

Yes it saves the club money, yes it looks good for us, its nice for us fans and the academy has long been overdue this sort of attention due to the guys like Mount, James, Abraham, Tomori, Gilmour, Hudson-Odoi getting a chance and being regulars but ultimately it means nothing if the club isn't' successful because that's the bar we have set in the last 20 years and that's how it will continue to be looked upon. It does give Frank a plus point but I think his spell isn't going to be remembered (whenever people reflect back on it in the future) on purely the fact he played the young guys, its going to be based on trophies won or lack of or competition for titles etc. The defensive record we have right now is probably more commonly thought of regarding Frank's spell here than the debuts he's given out from guys on the outside looking in.