The Mourinho Thread

[Styles 9,790]

Guts. Grit. Whatever synonym you want to use for balls. That's what we needed.

I'm also a little tired of this notion that we can only counter-attack. It's utter twaddle used to paint Mourinho as a one-dimensional coach. The fact that you contradict yourself almost immediately by saying that we have to rely on Hazard to make something happen indicates just how hollow a notion that is.

We don't just hit teams on the counter. We press them into mistakes and we do have the ability to create chances in second and third-phase situations but all that is hampered right now by the lack of an effective striker.

How did they lack balls exactly? Give clear examples of incidents throughout the match that lacked balls. It's such a convenient excuse to wheel out when you don't want to examine what happened. The players were committed as always but simply had no idea how to break down Palace. But forget quality or systemic problems, they just don’t have the fortitude because that’s easier to live with.

How is saying we rely on Hazard magic when our one and only game-plan fails a contradiction? Are you implying that relying on a player to do something extraordinary is a viable alternative to actual tactics?

[Tomo 21,733]

No one is saying that, remember throwing 2 goals in last 2 mins against Reading or lost at home to QPR, that were just terrible. The 2nd part is debatable as well, in term of head to head against top teams yh probably. But we haven't actually not anywhere yet so nothing solid(trophy...etc) to back it up.

Regarding trophies, the only one that should be used as a true barometar to how good as manager is, is the league. Every team wins atleast 10 games a season, 6 fall on FA Cup week and you have bagged yourself a cup. Even with the CL, did that trophy turn Robbie into Jose? If Moyes somehow wins it this season will he suddenly become a better manager?

I like to look at consistency first and foremost to judge a manage work, and we have improved a lot in consistency and general performance overall imo.

[The only place to be 11,313]

How is saying we rely on Hazard magic when our one and only game-plan fails a contradiction? Are you implying that relying on a player to do something extraordinary is a viable alternative to actual tactics?

How is looking to a player on your team to do something not an actual tactic? People seem to think that Hazard doing something 'magical' is above and beyond the call of duty, when it's precisely what he's paid for.

We look to hit teams on the counter, which is something that most teams do. We also look to apply a high pressing game to force them into turnovers in key areas. That is a tough tactic though and requires players to push themselves hard for 90 minutes - that's where the grit and determination is needed, to outfight the opposition. Yesterday Palace defended deep but broke fast and pushed themselves when we probably didn't. When Azpi got to the byline in the first-half, Torres should've been breaking his neck to get to the ball but he didn't. Then watch Costa bully the opposition, fight for every ball and make runs for 90 minutes. That's balls.

[Strike 7,217]

Constant Back five - best in the league really. it's the attack that goes missing in some games but then again Willian, Schurrle, Salah in their first season here, Oscar is still approaching his prime and the less said about the strikers the better

Getting this far without good strikers is an achievement in itself. The stretch of games from December to March, the team was producing the goods week in week out.

[Blue Armour 4,278]

Guts. Grit. Whatever synonym you want to use for balls. That's what we needed.

I'm also a little tired of this notion that we can only counter-attack. It's utter twaddle used to paint Mourinho as a one-dimensional coach. The fact that you contradict yourself almost immediately by saying that we have to rely on Hazard to make something happen indicates just how hollow a notion that is.

We don't just hit teams on the counter. We press them into mistakes and we do have the ability to create chances in second and third-phase situations but all that is hampered right now by the lack of an effective striker.

The movement from the striker yesterday wasn't good enough, but that's been the case with Torres for years now? The idea that there's no pattern to our attacking play is simply wrong though.

Yes, its lot of poor decision making that's ruining a lot of counter-attacks. In many ways, this match was symptomatic of what happened to Chelsea earlier this season. Attackers not taking their chances, and getting punished by the opposition who essentially beats us in our own game (the counter-attack). If you look at the stats both Palace and Chelsea had nearly the same number of attempts on goal...and typically one team made the most of it.

I feel most of the poor decision-making stems from a lack of experience...attackers like Willian, Oscar, Hazard and Schurrle need more playing time together to iron out these faults..For instance, I think one can guarantee that a front three of Drogba, Anelka and Malouda operating under similar instructions would have blitzed Palace on the counter

[Strike 7,217]

Yes, its lot of poor decision making that's ruining a lot of counter-attacks. In many ways, this match was symptomatic of what happened to Chelsea earlier this season. Attackers not taking their chances, and getting punished by the opposition who essentially beats us in our own game (the counter-attack). If you look at the stats both Palace and Chelsea had nearly the same number of attempts on goal...and typically one team made the most of it.

I feel most of the poor decision-making stems from a lack of experience...attackers like Willian, Oscar, Hazard and Schurrle need more playing time together to iron out these faults..For instance, I think one can guarantee that a front three of Drogba, Anelka and Malouda operating under similar instructions would have blitzed Palace on the counter

Not at all true. Taking only the Palace game - Most of Chelsea's shots were from 35 yards when the team couldn't find a way through whereas Palace had a lot of dangerous attacks

Only dangerous Chelsea attack was Azpi cross to Schurrle that somehow stayed out

[Styles 9,790]

How is looking to a player on your team to do something not an actual tactic? People seem to think that Hazard doing something 'magical' is above and beyond the call of duty, when it's precisely what he's paid for.

We look to hit teams on the counter, which is something that most teams do. We also look to apply a high pressing game to force them into turnovers in key areas. That is a tough tactic though and requires players to push themselves hard for 90 minutes - that's where the grit and determination is needed, to outfight the opposition. Yesterday Palace defended deep but broke fast and pushed themselves when we probably didn't. When Azpi got to the byline in the first-half, Torres should've been breaking his neck to get to the ball but he didn't. Then watch Costa bully the opposition, fight for every ball and make runs for 90 minutes. That's balls.

Because asking an individual player to waltz through 7-8 opponents is not a tactic. This is the first time I’ve ever seen anyone refer to an individual players’ contribution as a tactic in a team sport.

When faced with teams that play like Palace we’re almost always clueless. No patters of play or rehearsed moves, just Ivanovic aimlessly lumping the ball into the box ad nauseam.

I can't agree with your grit/determination rhetoric. Torres is crap, we've known this for years, comparing him to one of the best strikers in world football doesn't excuse what happened yesterday.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Because asking an individual player to waltz through 7-8 opponents is not a tactic. This is the first time I’ve ever seen anyone refer to an individual players’ contribution as a tactic in a team sport.

Teams are composed of individual contributions. Of course it's a tactic, as is asking a player to make a pass. What Hazard is asked to do is based on what his skillset allows him to.

When faced with teams that play like Palace we’re almost always clueless. No patters of play or rehearsed moves, just Ivanovic aimlessly lumping the ball into the box ad nauseam.

That's utter twaddle. There's clear patterns of movement and to suggest otherwise is simply an attempt to impugn the tactical nous of Jose. Breaking down teams isn't easy though. The 11 players Palace put out yesterday are all professional sportsmen with pride and desire. Expecting us just to roll them over is naive.

I can't agree with your grit/determination rhetoric. Torres is crap, we've known this for years, comparing him to one of the best strikers in world football doesn't excuse what happened yesterday.

You don't have to agree with it, but I'm not suggesting Torres should've done anything more than push himself to make it into the six-yard box for a ball. It's not the first time he's failed to do that and it won't be the last, but until we have someone who can do that we'll always struggle.

But if you don't think that overlapping run from Azpi wasn't a designed tactic then it's probably best to just agree to disagree.

[Styles 9,790]

Teams are composed of individual contributions. Of course it's a tactic, as is asking a player to make a pass. What Hazard is asked to do is based on what his skillset allows him to.

That's utter twaddle. There's clear patterns of movement and to suggest otherwise is simply an attempt to impugn the tactical nous of Jose. Breaking down teams isn't easy though. The 11 players Palace put out yesterday are all professional sportsmen with pride and desire. Expecting us just to roll them over is naive.

You don't have to agree with it, but I'm not suggesting Torres should've done anything more than push himself to make it into the six-yard box for a ball. It's not the first time he's failed to do that and it won't be the last, but until we have someone who can do that we'll always struggle.

But if you don't think that overlapping run from Azpi wasn't a designed tactic then it's probably best to just agree to disagree.

Hazard's skillet doesn't include 'beat 8 players and score a goal or make a chance'. You're giving him too much credit if you think it does.

Yeah it'd be naive of me to suggest we roll over teams like Palace but I've done nothing of the sort. I'm suggesting we should look to have enough ideas to at least create chances and know how to manage games that pan out this way.

Torres is a crap but yesterday was more of a systemic and tactical issue than anything else in my opinion. Costa or whoever will struggle to score goals in this team. A better striker would just be more efficient with the scraps he's given, he won't single-handedly improve how the team functions or develop our play beyond what it is.

[Henrique 9,133]

Since Mourinho returned, we have a lot of people in this forum with hypercritical views towards our own players. The reason why is very simple: Mourinho is a GOD, so if you get bad results, its the players fault. We already have some people saying Liverpool, Arsenal and Borussia have better squads, and that speaks loud.

After Villa defeat, I thought we played well, and I had positive opinions about that game, but yesterday it was a different history. Mourinho GOT IT WRONG, from the beginning to finish. His selection was awful, and please, dont tell me it was the same team that played against Arsenal. Crystal palace is a differet team, with a different approach.

Matic-Luiz-Lampard-Hazard-Schurle

Someone expected a different game with this kind of midfield? He said we failed to convert our opportunities in the 1st half. Bullshit. I think we created one single chance in the first 45 minutes, the one that Schurle missed. What I have to say about his subs? Can anyone please tell me exactly what he was thinking with his 4-1-3-2 formation? Ba+Torres upfront? All he got was letting Crystal Palace create 5 chances to score the 2nd goal.

But, at the end of the day, the reason is lack of balls, and no surprise, we have some people buying that excuse.

[duo11bluecl 207]

Since Mourinho returned, we have a lot of people in this forum with hypercritical views towards our own players. The reason why is very simple: Mourinho is a GOD, so if you get bad results, its the players fault. We already have some people saying Liverpool, Arsenal and Borussia have better squads, and that speaks loud.

After Villa defeat, I thought we played well, and I had positive opinions about that game, but yesterday it was a different history. Mourinho GOT IT WRONG, from the beginning to finish. His selection was awful, and please, dont tell me it was the same team that played against Arsenal. Crystal palace is a differet team, with a different approach.

Matic-Luiz-Lampard-Hazard-Schurle

Someone expected a different game with this kind of midfield? He said we failed to convert our opportunities in the 1st half. Bullshit. I think we created one single chance in the first 45 minutes, the one that Schurle missed. What I have to say about his subs? Can anyone please tell me exactly what he was thinking with his 4-1-3-2 formation? Ba+Torres upfront? All he got was letting Crystal Palace create 5 chances to score the 2nd goal.

But, at the end of the day, the reason is lack of balls, and no surprise, we have some people buying that excuse.

And next season if we don't win the title and come close, we would be 'unlucky' but at least we got a foundation. I agree that Jose is still the man to lead us but the ways most people bend over to support him is quite frankly laughable. The same people that were bending it for Luiz and Torres for a long time before finally admitted it.

[duo11bluecl 207]

Hazard's skillet doesn't include 'beat 8 players and score a goal or make a chance'. You're giving him too much credit if you think it does.

Yeah it'd be naive of me to suggest we roll over teams like Palace but I've done nothing of the sort. I'm suggesting we should look to have enough ideas to at least create chances and know how to manage games that pan out this way.

Torres is a crap but yesterday was more of a systemic and tactical issue than anything else in my opinion. Costa or whoever will struggle to score goals in this team. A better striker would just be more efficient with the scraps he's given, he won't single-handedly improve how the team functions or develop our play beyond what it is.

Tbf Torres been shit under like 5 managers and even for Spain now so he is hopeless. No Costa really wouldn't, you should have seen Atletico games, they don't create 10 chances per game but more like 3-4 but he usually always take them with the exception of a few misses. That Torres chip summed it up really.

[darrus 422]

Matic-Luiz-Lampard-Hazard-Schurle

Someone expected a different game with this kind of midfield?

Are you for real?

This midfield by the names and their skillset should be beating CP right, left and center even when all the players are on their off day. Yes, in this exact formation.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Hazard's skillet doesn't include 'beat 8 players and score a goal or make a chance'. You're giving him too much credit if you think it does.

Hazard has never been asked to beat 8 players, nor has he ever beaten 8 players in one dribble to my knowledge. He is however tasked with creating chances and contributing towards goals in much the same way Cech (the one with the gloves) is tasked with handling the ball in the goal area.

Yeah it'd be naive of me to suggest we roll over teams like Palace but I've done nothing of the sort. I'm suggesting we should look to have enough ideas to at least create chances and know how to manage games that pan out this way.

We did create chances. Tactics are nothing without execution though.

Torres is a crap but yesterday was more of a systemic and tactical issue than anything else in my opinion. Costa or whoever will struggle to score goals in this team. A better striker would just be more efficient with the scraps he's given, he won't single-handedly improve how the team functions or develop our play beyond what it is.

Here I completely disagree. Costa's movement and the way he occupies defenders would create more space for the players operating behind him. Torres simply doesn't force defences to do anything they aren't expecting. His runs off the ball are unintelligent and often lack the commitment to sell a defender.

But again, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Are you for real?

Sadly I think he might be.

[Styles 9,790]

Tbf Torres been shit under like 5 managers and even for Spain now so he is hopeless. No Costa really wouldn't, you should have seen Atletico games, they don't create 10 chances per game but more like 3-4 but he usually always take them with the exception of a few misses. That Torres chip summed it up really.

I've seen a few Atletico games and they are what Mourinho is building us towards which is a very hardworking and efficient team. I think their tactics work better in Spain where there is a culture of teams trying to play and being open. We don't have that luxury in this league; teams are more than content to stick 11 men behind the ball even at home. We need more in our locker than pressing and counter-attacking.

[dee25 1,044]

Hazard's skillet doesn't include 'beat 8 players and score a goal or make a chance'. You're giving him too much credit if you think it does.

Yeah it'd be naive of me to suggest we roll over teams like Palace but I've done nothing of the sort. I'm suggesting we should look to have enough ideas to at least create chances and know how to manage games that pan out this way.

Torres is a crap but yesterday was more of a systemic and tactical issue than anything else in my opinion. Costa or whoever will struggle to score goals in this team. A better striker would just be more efficient with the scraps he's given, he won't single-handedly improve how the team functions or develop our play beyond what it is.

Really couldn't have said it better myself. Absolutely spot on.

I think most reasonable fans all appreciate the work Mourinho has done this season but to argue that there aren't any flaws in the way Mourinho sets up the team at times and that the reason we struggle against sides like Palace is down to the striker or lack of grit and has nothing to do with our over reliance on counter-attacking is just.....pure fantasy. It's fantasy.

You're better off arguing with a brick wall imo.

[Eligius 121]

Actually, now that I think about.

Had we played 4-2-3-1 with Mikel and Oscar and dropped Lampard and Luiz and got the same result, the people on this board would of said Mourinho got it wrong as well and how we should of started Luiz and Lampard that game...

[Styles 9,790]

Hazard has never been asked to beat 8 players, nor has he ever beaten 8 players in one dribble to my knowledge. He is however tasked with creating chances and contributing towards goals in much the same way Cech (the one with the gloves) is tasked with handling the ball in the goal area.

We did create chances. Tactics are nothing without execution though.

Here I completely disagree. Costa's movement and the way he occupies defenders would create more space for the players operating behind him. Torres simply doesn't force defences to do anything they aren't expecting. His runs off the ball are unintelligent and often lack the commitment to sell a defender.

But again, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Sadly I think he might be.

Two clear chances in 90 minutes by my count. I do understand why supporters want a fantasy striker like Costa, we create so little that we need somebody that's really clinical.