The Mourinho Thread

[Amblève. 4,995]

Not when we're on the cusp of winning the title, no.

Call it cowardly all you want, if we missed out on the title this late on because we wanted to do passy-passy tiki taka bollocks you'd all have Mou's head.

I didn't even mention tiki taki whatsoever and you're talking about extremes again... it's as if there's only Barcelona-esque offense and Catenaccio defense lmao

What about a solid 2:0 win without allowing United to even get started (like they did yesterday, partially due to Zouma starting and confusing the hell out of everyone...)?

[The Chels 2,502]

Compare yesterdays game to Liverpool away last season and there are some similarities. A point for us yesterday would have been acceptable, now last season a point for Liverpool against us would have been acceptable for them. But the one thing i feel is overlooked when Gerrard slips there is not a single Liverpool defender in sight and Ba has a free run on goal. Yesterday if Matic had slipped for example our defenders would have been on any United player instantly. Is that an example of Mourinho's nous and Rodgers inexperience possibly. So it's either play conservatively and win or play gung ho and lose.

I'd say it's more to do with finishing than tactics. United did create 2 excellent chances after all through Rooney and Falcao, which followed player mistakes, but they couldn't capitalise.

A top CL side would have ruthlessly punished us in those instances though as PSG/Atleti have recently shown us, and as we regularly show against others (including versus United yesterday and as you mention versus Liverpool last season).

[Amblève. 4,995]

Exactly, some people seem to think just because we are the better team we shouldn't bother nullifying their threats.

Nobody thinks that. Or did I miss someone's comment that we should allow our opposition's best players to shoot from their preferred spots?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

I didn't even mention tiki taki whatsoever and you're talking about extremes again... it's as if there's only Barcelona-esque offense and Catenaccio defense lmao

What about a solid 2:0 win without allowing United to even get started (like they did yesterday, partially due to Zouma starting and confusing the hell out of everyone...)?

To keep quiet Fellaini and keep us tight defensively.

Maybe you don't realise that their pacey wingers combined with our complete lack of pace in our back 4...we would have been slaughtered on the flanks and then Fellaini would have bound to have out aerialled Terry and Cahill and put one or two in the net. If we'd been at our best then I'd agree, but we're not, we have severe injuries in striking departments and our first choice winger is out. Not the time to be trying to play our best game.

What you're asking for is what we'll see against Arsenal, methinks. We'll press well, keep the ball and without Zouma in the team we will have more attacking emphasis. We're long overdue for a good win and especially if Costa is back I can see it being a high scoring game. Arsenal have always been vulnerable to be pressed and that's exactly what we'll do.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

The bar has been set low if people think the football we played in the first half of the season was otherwordly. Don't get me wrong, it was a million miles better than the dross we've been watching for over 4 months now but lets stop pretending we were battering teams left & right. Not to mention the fact it we were just as pragmatic in the big games as we are now. It's all well & nice outplaying the likes of Hull & West Brom but a truly great side would be able to impose their style on play on a game regardless of the opposition.

We could sign Messi, Ronaldo, Modric & Kroos this summer and we'll still be parking the bus in the big games.

[zolayes 14,489]

The bar has been set low if people think the football we played in the first half of the season was otherwordly. Don't get me wrong, it was a million miles better than the dross we've been watching for over 4 months now but lets stop pretending we were battering teams left & right. Not to mention the fact it we were just as pragmatic in the big games as we are now. It's all well & nice outplaying the likes of Hull & West Brom but a truly great side would be able to impose their style on play on a game regardless of the opposition.

We could sign Messi, Ronaldo, Modric & Kroos this summer and we'll still be parking the bus in the big games.

you are gonna get hammered even tho in many respects you are right

[Amblève. 4,995]

To keep quiet Fellaini and keep us tight defensively.

Maybe you don't realise that their pacey wingers combined with our complete lack of pace in our back 4...we would have been slaughtered on the flanks and then Fellaini would have bound to have out aerialled Terry and Cahill and put one or two in the net. If we'd been at our best then I'd agree, but we're not, we have severe injuries in striking departments and our first choice winger is out. Not the time to be trying to play our best game.

Zouma didn't even play vs Fellaini 1-on-1 more than on maybe 2 or 3 occasions. Instead Fellaini was drawing Ivanovic in and Zouma was wandering around and giving up space in front of our box.

Instead of taking advantage of United's non-existing defensive midfield by starting Ramires (who could have helped out Ivanovic and Oscar on the right flank as well) we rather sat deep and allowed United to play their game in our half. Why was that so ultra necessary? You can't seriously tell me that we couldn't have done more harm to United if we played a more-dimensional midfield. There were dozens of occasions where one more attacking threat would have done wonders for the team on the counter. And yet we still were praying till the last second that United don't score some shit goal like they did in the first fixture...

More often than not we're giving ourselves a harder time than our opposition does.

[HRiver 1,512]

I'm not content with his strategy for this game either, even if this approach is understandable at this stage of the season. We somehow pulled it off but let's not forget that a lot of luck was involved. The way we handle big games hasn't changed much in the last 2-3 years and I seriously hope things will change from next season.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Zouma didn't even play vs Fellaini 1-on-1 more than on maybe 2 or 3 occasions. Instead Fellaini was drawing Ivanovic in and Zouma was wandering around and giving up space in front of our box.

Instead of taking advantage of United's non-existing defensive midfield by starting Ramires (who could have helped out Ivanovic and Oscar on the right flank as well) we rather sat deep and allowed United to play their game in our half. Why was that so ultra necessary? You can't seriously tell me that we couldn't have done more harm to United if we played a more-dimensional midfield. There were dozens of occasions where one more attacking threat would have done wonders for the team on the counter. And yet we still were praying till the last second that United don't score some shit goal like they did in the first fixture...

More often than not we're giving ourselves a harder time than our opposition does.

You were obviously watching a different game to me. Zouma simply stopped his side of Herrera-Shaw-Fellaini from operating. See SNF analysis for more on that, Thierry Henry explained it perfectly. He also stopped Fellaini winning 90% of his aerial duels. Massive factor.

I also think you underestimate Rooney's ability in midfield too.

And are you fucking kidding me? Ramires has no ball control, no dribbling, no passing ability, no shooting ability, no strength... awful general footballing skills. He completely ruins our system of play All he has is pace. And most of all, he has no aerial ability, pitting him against Fellaini would have ruined us.

Maybe you just have to accept that Mou played the right system this time. If we had Koke or even RLC I would be agreeing with you right now, but at this point in time Zouma was the best option.

[lionsden 4,689]

I wish to express my rebuttal on the openions that "we are a few players short to play the style we want."

The truth is if you feel that we are a few players short to play the style we want, then it is never going to happen. This mentality exsist in every club, i have not come across any situation or club that felt they had every piece to enforce the style they want. Is there a club in the world that thinks they have every piece to enforce the style they want? The answer is absloutely no. Even the best side of the last ten years, the Barca side in their prime never had every piece or felt short on a few players. They needed to upgrade their CBs for years, and they still do. Before Suarez and Neymar, they never felt they had the optiomal forwards around Messi. Ibra, Villa, Pedro, and Sanchez were not adequate enough for one reason or another.

Saying we are a few players short in order to play a proactive football, then with this mentality we will never play that style. Even if in the summer we do sign Pogba, Reus, and Varane. Which is unlikely imo but lets assume wo do for now. What is the excuse we are going to use when one of our key players get injured or out of form? oh yeah we are going to say we don't have the players to play with our foot in front.

If we apply this mentality in real life is the equivalent of someone saying i will start start losing weight when (insert excuse) or someone saying i will stop smoking when (insert excuse). It doesn't matter the excuses are unlimited. Same unlimited excuses apply to Club football, we will never feel like we have every piece to play the style we want, we can always say we need this or that. The reasons to procrastinaite is unlimited.

I am sorry to say this, but there is no chance Mou will change or we will have some sudden change of style. If you are fine with how we are playing then i can tolerate it in fact i can respect this view. Thinking othewise is delusional at this point, because there is not a shred of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Arguably the best post of the last couple of pages and it get's completely ignored by the "Jose can do no wrong" crowd. No surprises there.

I'm glad I stayed away from this thread because it's the same old tedious argument from the pro jose crowd. "Wining is all that counts" "what if we played attacking/proactive football and lost" "we don't have the pieces in place to impose ourselves on another big team" "stop moaning" etc.

Just came in to give clockwork's post the credit it deserves.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Agreed, Tomo with the bolded. And I do love and support Mourinho for what he has done, even if I might not show it as zealously as some other posters. I supported him and followed his career intently when he wasn't even a Chelsea manager for god's sake. I love the geezer. I have never known any Chelsea staff member who has defended this club in public more than Mourinho has. I appreciate Mourinho for what he will win for the club this season, a league and cup double. I'm sure I'll be celebrating like a madman when we win the league.. But I also know we are a big enough club to expect both titles and entertaining football. This team is more than strong enough to do it, that's a cheap excuse. The brutal fact is, there is no big team in Europe this sort of football. Remember, Jose was not the favourite or even the 2nd favourite to get the Chelsea job. A proper Chelsea legend not being the favourite? Ever asked yourself why? I can also run a list of other top European clubs who won't want Mourinho as manager because of primarily his team plays football but I won't go there.

I don't believe Mourinho is the right manager for this group of players. I'm sure that I will be vindicated sometime in the future, regardless of how unpopular it might make me on a Chelsea forum. I hope the man stays forever, but I know in my heart of hearts the football he knows best to play is not sustainable long-term for a big club. UNLESS, Mourinho gets an attacking coach to help with the side of football he is so clearly not strong at. He will be a better manager for it.

Right now, I'm sure he knows he hasn't been good enough in Europe because of his weakness. 4-1 to Dortmund (though they won the 2nd leg 2-0 tbf), 3-1 to Atletico Madrid and worst of all, losing to 10 man PSG at home. Anyone who wants to see the weaknesses in Mourinho as a manager, re-watch both legs carefully. It's not simply about signing world class players and relying on their individual brilliance to win matches. What about when they come up against other teams with equally good players? All of a sudden, what do we do?

Mourinho's Chelsea is not even that solid defensively anymore. In his first spell, when he set up his teams to defend, Petr barely had any saves to make. Now, the opposition are working Courtois left, right and centre, hitting the post and we are getting lucky breaks. The reason is the players we have now (Hazard's, Oscar's, Fabregas', Willian's) are being told to play a brand of football that is foreign to them and we've been found out vs Europe's elite.

Anyway, I don't want to labour my points any further and frustrate any other posters by bringing up uncomfortable issues and repeating the same stuff over and over. It's too easy to get along with everyone here by just being smiley-happy and going for the ride. I know it will make me unpopular, but I'm more concerned about the long term success of the club.

I want the love story between Chelsea and Jose Mourinho to be unbreakable and last for as long as he goes on to manage Portugal in his sixties or whatever, but Mourinho and by extension, Chelsea, needs a strong attacking coach. It's not about Marco Reus or Paul Pogba. I read rumours of Zola on twitter about a week ago, but i'm not sure he is up for that job.

I think you rate our squad more than you should. There's something that we all want to see in Chelsea - the ability to play stylish football, more proactive. I'll elaborate what it acutally means - the ability to create posseseion game, to press high, play a higher line in defense, link up play between attackers, midfielders, full backs.

Posseseion game - Lets take a look at our midfielders first- Matic, Cesc, Oscar, Willian, Hazard, Cuadrado, Ramires, Mikel. There are exactly 4 players out of this group who can play posseseion football in a descent enough way against quality sides- Matic, Cesc, Willian and Hazard. Oscar, for his role in the 10, just cant. Oscar loses the ball, Oscar misplace simple passes, Oscar cant take the very important role of being the second playmkaer next to Cesc. If a team presses Cesc, we cant control the ball, Oscar wont be the guy to run the show. Every top team who plays for possesion have at the very least two Playmakers in their line up - Real (Modric, Kroos, Isco), Bayern (Thiago, Schweinsteiger , Alonso), Barcelona (Iniesta, Xabi, Rakitic. and Rakitic isnt that great like Barca would like, thats why they cant keep possession like they used too with Xabi-Iniesta, thats also why Real completely controlled the El Clasico in the first half for example). We only have Cesc to create possession from central midfield, thats not enough for a team who wants to control the ball. How can you control the ball against the better squads this way? its too hard and its too risky. You're talking about "attacking coach", i dont know what you mean by that at all if im honest. imo our problem is that we cant have the ball enough.

Pressing higher - Lets take a look at our first CBs for this season - Cahill and Terry. You just cant press and play a higher line against quality sides with such slow central defense, you'll get punished. I believe Zouma will take the place of Cahill next season from the start. That would be the right step.

This team is still a work in progress, we have some players who can play more proactive, but the others cant. You're right about Hazard, Cesc, Willian etc, they can play differently, but others still stall the team from making real progress. I dont see a reason to think its the manager who stalls us. When we'll have another playmaker and a line up with better technical players, the ball will stay in our feet more, in a natural way, we would lose the ball less. If Mourinho wants it? i think he is, but thats the only question. If he doesnt want it i will be upset about him like you, but we should see.

About PSG - Imo our performance was just awful in the bridge. The players didnt show any urgency, energy, it was the opposite of yesterday. When you play this way, thats one of the risks, people are right to say you cant play this way all the time, because its hard for the players. I believe if we played like yesterday against PSG, we would have go through. But playing for possesion? we cant do it against this side, like we cant do it against Arsenal.

About Mourinho in Real - The problem imo was that this team wasnt able to create possession good enough. Ronaldo, Di Maria, Ozil, Khdeira, all of those players not contributing enough in keeping the ball. That was their biggest issue imo. They also couldnt break a defensive formation good enough, for the same reason - too many very direct players, not enough pure magic.

"The brutal fact is, there is no big team in Europe playing this sort of football."

First of all - Atletico. But Mourinho is very different from Pep or Barcelona or Real Madrid (as clubs), he doesnt care about not playing pretty, he can play ugly and stay happy just about winning the game. Those clubs and Pep and the likes of him dont want to play only for results. Mourinho before every game thinks what is the best way (in his opinion) to win the game, or not to lose it. And every way is acceptable for him. He knows what he can do with his current team and what he cant do, or what will be too risky and what will be less risky. And if playing like yesterday was the best option, he'll do it. I dont see it as a weakness at all. When our squad will be better fitted for more proactive football, im sure we wont see performances like yesterday. When we'll play against Bayern (with Pep) or Barcelona, im sure we'll play on the counter, no doubt, because Mourinho know they play for possesion and the best way to score against those teams is to let them play the ball, steal the ball and counter, but im sure the apporoch will be slightly different if we get the right players, like pressing higher. Bayern 2013 destroyed Barcelona with counter attacks, thats the ultimate goal for Mourinho imo. A team who can do both.

Another thing - if Mourinho is so anti-possession, anti-proactive football, why did his Real Madrid side played this way against Barcelona when he felt they are good and talented enough to do it? he actually did it in the first game when they lost 5-0. Because of that lost he played more conservative in the next games against them, and in the second season and third he tried again to play more proactive and also succeeded most of the time.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

On the other hand, another poster came up with the analogy that Jose's tactics are right (which I agree with). It's the equivalent of a boxer stopping his opponent from hitting him. 'Boo!' go the opposition, as they scream that the fight is boring because someone is not getting the shit kicked out of them. However, if you're supporting the boxer and he's one step away from claiming the heavy weight title and he's also put on a good show for nearly all the rest of the boxing season then you're more willing to see him claim it than get KO'd by doing a silly move on the opponent and leaving yourself wide open to be attacked.

'Boo!' continue the opposition but Jose still claims the title. In fact, he's done it with Porto, dragging an average team to the pinnacle of European football, many cups and 2 (soon to be 3) titles with us and dragged an old and dying Inter team to a treble which I believe was the first Italian football has seen.

Grass is always greener syndrome hits again. Ancelotti was on the verge of being sacked just a month ago, nearly got dumped out of the CL by Schalke (and Real ended up doing Jose style damage limitation in the return leg anyway) and are now on course to winning the square root of fuck all, which all adds up to Ancelotti being sacked. So much so that Bale (the fall guy here) is being attacked after every draw they get, sometimes even a win just because he didn't pass to Ronaldo. So that rules them out as a success story.

Let's move on to Barcelona. In December and January Messi seemed like he was leaving, the board was lamenting the sale of Cesc Fabregas to us, and considering sacking Enrique. They were losing games and they were attempting to play their best football despite £500m of players on the bench. David Moyes' Real Sociedad beat them 1-0. The ONLY reason Barca do so well is because they have so much depth in so many postions, which we cannot yet match. Barcelona's team post 2000 has never needed regeneration because a) their academy, which we are working on replicating, and b ) their dodgy dealings in young players, which earned them a transfer ban. That and the fact that Barcelona can afford to have a front 3 of Suarez, Messi, and Neymar. Therefore ATM we are not going to be able to match this until we bring in more players, which brings me on to c) they simply have so much money that they will never have to worry who they buy - we cannot currently match this because of the size of our stadium. This is the model we're aiming towards.

So, that leaves the final European powerhouse - Bayern. Now, everything seemed all fine and dandy because a) their league is so weak and b ) Pep seemed to have things in order there, so he should do - the team was existing for him when he went. Oh, until injury kept out Robben and Ribery, their only creative outlets. Like us losing Cesc and Eden at the same time. While we should be aware of this, we survived without one of them. Now, they tried to play attractive football without their key players (like us not having Costa or Remy and Willian) and lost to Porto, spectacularly. 2-0. It was a collapse. Neuer should have been sent off (similar to David De Gea for United) Now they are looking at going out of the CL to Porto. What's more humiliating, going out to PSG on away goals, having not actually been beaten (themselves a good side) or to Porto after being thumped despite a potential fight back at home? Then the club management is further destabilised when the club's medical team resign after being asked to take the blame and after being taunted by Pep. I can also guarantee Porto will park the bus, and rightly, there is no need in risking throwing away their lead for the sake of attacking. How does this relate to us being so nearly there in the title race (at the point where we were going up against United) - well, we knew a win would be a massive booster for the team, no matter the method. We also knew a loss would give both United and Arsenal a hope of catching us, and sow the seeds of doubt in our minds over whether we can do it. Therefore it would be silly not to respect United's danger men just for the sake of risky football and fulfilling some people's ego troubles who worry about what other teams think of us at such crucial times of our season. We've played our football, we've done the legwork, and now it's time to get over the line.

It's just the way we had to set up to beat United with the players we had. Against Arsenal we can safely go with a standard lineup and we'll press and play well because Arsenal don't have the phsyciality to rush and bully us off the ball. But you know, same old tired arguments, of course.

The model we should be aiming for is Barcelona. We're in the process of this but rebuilding a team takes time. Quote me on this next season if I'm wrong. But I'm really fucking tired of people moaning about us winning "badly" when we would almost certainly have lost had we played how we usually played against a team like United. EVERYBODY knows Matic-Fabregas would have been slaughtered.

If I could like this post 10,000,000 times it would not be enough.

[Henrique 9,133]

To be honest winning the league this season is not a product of Mourinho's mind. When Mourinho managed Chelse years ago, the team lacked individual briliance. It was a team based on tactical discipline.

This season is a different story. It will be weird if at the end of this season people talk more about Mourinho than Hazard.

Some people say this topic is hot after a bad result, and quite after a win. The reason is very simple, the team usually play a very bad football in tactical terms, winning or losing. When you win, you can forget the bad tactics.

Its not a question about style, its a question about the future. If Hazard gets a long term injured, this team is fucked. If our individuais are in a not very good day, results like PSG game is what we get.

The naked true is, football against United was just bad and unconvincing. Tactics were bad as well, since United had enough chances to score goals. its not a ageing squad or a cheap squad. We are talking about a new team, with young players, a team that is supposed To be together for years. We are not talking about the first season of a unexperienced manager.

One more thing to say: ive been in this forum for years, and the talk was about long term results against short term results. people always said you cant care that much about quick results. Its funny, because the same people who used to love those ideas are the ones who try to kill anny discussion about Mourinho with results and with "we are on top of the league" argument. Im not a big fan of castles made of sand.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

The naked true is, football against United was just bad and unconvincing. Tactics were bad as well, since United had enough chances to score goals. its not a ageing squad or a cheap squad. We are talking about a new team, with young players, a team that is supposed To be together for years. We are not talking about the first season of a unexperienced manager.

Lots of chances for United?

I think the tactics looked bad in the first 20 minutes, where the players didn't operate like they were told to, Zouma was walking around, our right side was open for Shaw and Young, no tracking back there, but it changed for the next 70 minuets, and since than they created only one real worrying chance, Falcao who hit the post. This tactics were built on the awareness of the players, a player losing is awareness for a second is something you think would happen if you're Mourinho, the issue is that it can't happen more than once or twice, and it didn't. Rooney chance in the start of the game, Falcao chance when Zouma loses is awareness for the only time, that's a good day for those tactics, always was like this, even with Atletico or Inter 2010 they gave that 1-2 chances when playing in a similar way. If thats the best way to approach those games in the furure? i very hope not, but it succeeded for this game. Results like PSG game happens when the players dont execute the game plan, when they lack urgency and energy "to get the job done". They just werent up for it this day, its Mourinho's fault as well.

Better counter attacks from us would have made the tactics look much better for us vs United, but we couldn't do it mainly because of Drogba who's too slow this days (the speed of running and actions).

[Atholy 1,293]

VERY funny story on how Fellaini's brother confused Mou and our club hotel doorman

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3046257/Marouane-Fellaini-twin-mix-Chelsea-players-sweating-jokes-Jose-Mourinho.html