Graham Potter Thread

[ZAPHOD2319 4,819]

2 hours ago, didi007 said:

What if we end up in the relegation zone? Will he still be kept? 

No chance he would survive that. We also have had 6 of the starting 11 injured. I think we will start climbing after Boxing Day. 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

4 hours ago, Jype said:

Is Nagelsmann an elite manager though?

He got Hoffenheim to play some excellent stuff and even made the CL a couple of times but we also have to remember the Bundesliga is far less competitive than EPL. For example in the 2017/18 season Hoffenheim's highest ever league finish of 3rd place was achieved with 55 points in 34 games. A similar point return in the PL over a 38 game season would amount to around 61 points, which would basically get you anywhere between 6th-8th place in any given season. A good achievement for a young coach for sure, but elite? I'm not sure.

After his time at Hoffenheim he got a slight step up following his move to RB Leipzig but they didn't really improve much under him. The season prior to Nagelsmann's arrival they had got 66 points  in the Bundesliga and in the two seasons with Nagelsmann they got 66 and 65 so basically stayed at the exact same level. They did reach the semis in that weird COVID-time UCL one-off knockout tourney though, so there's that.

He then made the big step to manage Bayern where winning the title is very much a dead certainty and I don't think he can be credited too much for that when any half-decent coach would achieve the same with the squad they have. Their points total last season was the lowest Bayern have got in the last ten years and this year he's been under some criticism and there have even been calls for him to be sacked so it's not all sunshines and rainbows there when making the leap to one of the biggest clubs out there. I don't think you'll find many Bayern fans who would call Nagelsmann an elite level manager but he's still very young and can improve a lot.

Had Potter stayed at Brighton I think it's very likely they would have reached the UEL spots in the Premiear League this season. In an ideal situation we'd probably have waited a bit to see how he develops as a manager but the dynamics in the EPL are very different to the Bundesliga. It's not like we could have seen Potter first take charge of an already established European level side (like Nagelsmann did at Leipzig) before snapping him up to the big time so the opportunity to take a gamble on him was now or never. Whether he's ready for that is another question entirely but let's see how it goes.

I’m pretty certain Nagelsmann would be categorised as an elite manager despite Bayern maybe not being as good as people expect them to be at present. I still think his work in Germany has been pretty good all things considered ie the clubs he was at before, his age and lack of/amount of coaching experience and how his careers progressed so far. 

Personally I think Bayern are in a funny moment. I mean they’ve let 2 serial winners, who were experienced and world class talents in Thiago and Lewandowski leave in recent windows without replacing them with ready made/like for like quality so there was always going to be the inevitability that they’d maybe not be the same team they were without them/performances may drop because they were key players (although Mane is world class but signing him as an out and out CF to replace Lewa is a bit mad). Particularly Lewandowski who I think makes the difference in most sides despite his age. As well the fact they’ve sort of overhauled their squad over the past 4 or 5 seasons with younger players coming in and older ones leaving ie Hummels, Boateng, Javi Martinez, Douglas Costa, Robben, Ribery. 

Or at least thats how I see it re Nagelsmann and Bayern. I mean Hansi Flick did an exceptional job there without really being regarded as an exceptional manager but Kovac, who is a decent enough manager - not elite though - struggled there and Ancelotti has also struggled there. I would say Nagelsmann is doing better than those 2.

Probably the same scenario that Juventus had a few seasons ago, a lot of aging players needing changed out, fresh blood needed, perhaps a new style/adaption of their style needed - but they didn’t do it quickly enough and now they are in the scenario which they are in where if they’d maybe done it sooner it would of been smoother. I don’t think Bayern are in a similar scenario because they didn’t leave it last minute they’ve managed to refresh an older group pretty well over 5 to 6 years.

 

[NikkiCFC 8,334]

I want Luis Enrique for years. Quality manager and plays offensive and attractive football which is very rare in Chelsea. One more month of contract with Spain. When TT was still here I said wait for him but no, we have long term plans with Potter!😭

[Fernando 6,585]

On 26/11/2022 at 18:12, NikkiCFC said:

I want Luis Enrique for years. Quality manager and plays offensive and attractive football which is very rare in Chelsea. One more month of contract with Spain. When TT was still here I said wait for him but no, we have long term plans with Potter!😭

No thank you! 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

On 27/11/2022 at 00:12, NikkiCFC said:

I want Luis Enrique for years. Quality manager and plays offensive and attractive football which is very rare in Chelsea. One more month of contract with Spain. When TT was still here I said wait for him but no, we have long term plans with Potter!😭

He's not terrible but still living off that one CL won by one of the greatest attacking trios in history. (prime MSN). Don't remember him ever having done anything of note before or since.

[Vesper 30,219]

On 27/11/2022 at 00:12, NikkiCFC said:

I want Luis Enrique for years. Quality manager and plays offensive and attractive football which is very rare in Chelsea. One more month of contract with Spain. When TT was still here I said wait for him but no, we have long term plans with Potter!😭

Hard pass. I am fine with Potter atm.

[Vesper 30,219]

8 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

He's not terrible but still living off that one CL won by one of the greatest attacking trios in history. (prime MSN). Don't remember him ever having done anything of note before or since.

Absolutely nothing special about Enrique. He is good looking, foreign, intelligent, and dresses sharp, so of course the 'only non British managers need apply' club fawns all over him.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Vesper

[Jype 6,398]

5 hours ago, Vesper said:

Absolutely nothing special about Enrique. He is good looking, foreign, intelligent, and dresses sharp, so of course the 'only non British managers need apply' club fawns all over him.

Yep, personally I've never really rated Enrique as a manager.

Barcelona did very well with him in charge but it's not like he was influential in building that squad when it already had Messi, Neymar, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pique, Mascherano, Dani Alves and Jordi Alba in the prime of their careers. Enrique did bring in Suarez and Rakitic, but I feel they'd have gotten the former anyway no matter who the manager was. Credit to him for getting them to play as well as they did but I think there are many managers who could have achieved similar success with that squad.

Before or after that stint at Barcelona, Enrique has failed to achieve anything of note as a manager. Flopped at Roma, did alright at Celta and done about as expected with Spain.

'Offensive and attracting' football seems to mean something entirely different to me and @NikkiCFC. I didn't watch any of their WC games (nor any other game in that human rights abusing shit of a tournament so far) but it seems that 7-0 thrashing against Costa Rica has papered over some cracks and made lots of people think Spain play great football under Enrique but overall they've been a dire team to watch and despite all that ball possession they often struggle to create clear goalscoring chances. While Enrique has been their manager they've also failed to perform when it really matters, though it has to be said their squad quality has also declined a lot from around 2008-2016 too so maybe that's just their level now?

[milka 3,393]

Chelsea’s owners remain committed to Graham Potter even if the club miss out on a Top 4 finish and Champions League qualification this season. (via

@Matt_Law_

[MoroccanBlue 5,383]

The only task Potter has this second half of the season is to actually show us what he wants in his football. 

[Reddish-Blue 2,510]

18 hours ago, Jype said:

Yep, personally I've never really rated Enrique as a manager.

Barcelona did very well with him in charge but it's not like he was influential in building that squad when it already had Messi, Neymar, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pique, Mascherano, Dani Alves and Jordi Alba in the prime of their careers. Enrique did bring in Suarez and Rakitic, but I feel they'd have gotten the former anyway no matter who the manager was. Credit to him for getting them to play as well as they did but I think there are many managers who could have achieved similar success with that squad.

Before or after that stint at Barcelona, Enrique has failed to achieve anything of note as a manager. Flopped at Roma, did alright at Celta and done about as expected with Spain.

'Offensive and attracting' football seems to mean something entirely different to me and @NikkiCFC. I didn't watch any of their WC games (nor any other game in that human rights abusing shit of a tournament so far) but it seems that 7-0 thrashing against Costa Rica has papered over some cracks and made lots of people think Spain play great football under Enrique but overall they've been a dire team to watch and despite all that ball possession they often struggle to create clear goalscoring chances. While Enrique has been their manager they've also failed to perform when it really matters, though it has to be said their squad quality has also declined a lot from around 2008-2016 too so maybe that's just their level now?

To be fair, their squad quality was always going to drop off after that golden generation (Casillas - Ramos - Puyol - Iniesta- Xavi - X. Alonso - Villa - Torres  - Silva and so many more). 

The only real positive for Spain is that they had quite a few players in that Under-21 age group for this world cup and assuming they develop to the levels expected, they'll be in good enough shape in 4 years time. 

[Fernando 6,585]

18 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

The only task Potter has this second half of the season is to actually show us what he wants in his football. 

I think we should improve after everyone is back and rested. 

I did thought we would go down in performance pre world cup. 

Now to see improvement and as well get rid of more deadwood if possible in January and continue to get younger players. We need DM, Jude will be hard to get so try other people like Caicedo and I guess we will go for Rice. 

Judge will be the best buy but we don't have a chance in that so let's go for what we can get. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,819]

Jude spending all of his national team time with the Liverpool players does seem to be telling.

[Tomo 21,751]

Despite the recent performances it's not tactically I have worries about Potter, he's one of the best coaches in the league in that aspect in my opinion. He's won too many tactical battles against the likes of Klopp, Tuchel, Conte, Ten Hag, Pioli etc without parking the bus for it to be a coincidence (and apart from against the latter did it with a significantly inferior side).

The big worry for me is if he can adapt his mindset required for a club with our expectations, fears that haven't exactly been eased with his recent interviews.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

On 26/11/2022 at 23:12, NikkiCFC said:

I want Luis Enrique for years. Quality manager and plays offensive and attractive football which is very rare in Chelsea. One more month of contract with Spain. When TT was still here I said wait for him but no, we have long term plans with Potter!😭

I dont get why. Like at all. Even saying hes a quality manager? Based on what? Barring one treble and a double with Barcelona in a 2 year period with the greatest front 3 they’ve ever had (sure they had 100+ g&a’s combined both of those seasons), he’s achieved next to nothing of any note outside of that as a manager in a career that spans almost 15 years. The other top managers do it elsewhere, or have a historical track record. He doesn't.

I mean if he had gone and proven himself at another club since or had a couple of good spells which progressed his career, maybe, but he hasn’t really had success outside of Barcelona. Maybe a bit at Celta Vigo but jesus christ thats like the Potter-Brighton thing here. And was 1 season.

I am sorry but his Spain teams also have to be up there with some of the most boring sides in modern European NT history. Like the needless passing it amongst their 18 yard box and in their own half going backwards and square is absolutely balls to watch. Its ball possession for the sake of it with no real intention of forcing the issue.

[Vegetable 830]

Funny to consider new candidates for "elite, long term coach" given the club had just fired one not long ago.

I am not sold on Potter. Hard to judge his tactical talent, but he seems to lack personality of top coach. Hopefully he does all those "other things" at the club that TT was fired for not doing, but I don't really see him integrating academy or heading the scout team or whatever atm.

But the point is, "club having trust in Potter, even if he misses out on top 4" is making me literally rage. Like WTF, we are not in position to hire some supposedly talented amateur and give him time to grow into big boys football. This is not Apple TV series. Of course, the list of excuses for such event will be endless, but come on, maybe new owners have trust in Potter and their transfers, but looking at this I think I am starting to lose trust for the club I've been supporting for over 20 years and seen a lot of crusty stuff since.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Vegetable

[lucio 5,418]

15 hours ago, Vegetable said:

Funny to consider new candidates for "elite, long term coach" given the club had just fired one not long ago.

I am not sold on Potter. Hard to judge his tactical talent, but he seems to lack personality of top coach. Hopefully he does all those "other things" at the club that TT was fired for not doing, but I don't really see him integrating academy or heading the scout team or whatever atm.

But the point is, "club having trust in Potter, even if he misses out on top 4" is making me literally rage. Like WTF, we are not in position to hire some supposedly talented amateur and give him time to grow into big boys football. This is not Apple TV series. Of course, the list of excuses for such event will be endless, but come on, maybe new owners have trust in Potter and their transfers, but looking at this I think I am starting to lose trust for the club I've been supporting for over 20 years and seen a lot of crusty stuff since.

Yeh for real , If you want the club to overlook poor short term results and “trust you” you need to have a proven track record like klopp did when he came to Liverpool. Finishing mid table with Brighton is 0 indicator of future success.

[Tomo 21,751]

On 09/12/2022 at 16:00, lucio said:

Yeh for real , If you want the club to overlook poor short term results and “trust you” you need to have a proven track record like klopp did when he came to Liverpool. Finishing mid table with Brighton is 0 indicator of future success.

I don't agree on that, a good projected end product is the deal breaker not previous record.

[milka 3,393]

Mauricio Pochettino has told friends he is keen on the #Chelsea manager’s job amid concerns over Graham Potter's long-term future at the club. 
Graham Potter’s position at #Chelsea is not under immediate threat, but the club owners led by Todd Boehly became increasingly alarmed by results before the World Cup break.

@footyinsider247

 

 

 

 

 

[Hashishi 148]

https://www.football.london/Chelsea-fc/news/next-england-manager-odds-potter-25729469

Potter is bookies favourite to replace Southgate if he walks.