The Tuchel Thread

[Blue Armour 4,448]

2 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

Its a Chelsea thing. We turn to shit after a great success all the time, until the manager gets fired. 

We were PL champions 2015, we were shit 2016.

We were PL champions 2017, we were shit 2018.

We won the CL 2021, we are shit since then. 

Its a Chelsea thing. 

We also won 2 1 despite being a man down and then go on to lose the next game to mediocre opponents. Chelsea thing.

[Gundalf 806]

2 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

We also won 2 1 despite being a man down and then go on to lose the next game to mediocre opponents. Chelsea thing.

It was a lucky win tho against a struggling side. 

[Blues11 213]

57 minutes ago, didi007 said:

All your attacking players want to leave or have left. Werner, Lukaku, CHO, Ziyech etc. We all thought Lukaku was the problem. He had his faults but not fully to blame...

I never fully blamed any certain attacking player. I didn't think Lukaku was a good signing but he definitely wasn't the only issue.

How Tuchel has not addressed the midfield and realized we're so easy to play against is beyond me. 

He's literally a walking excuse machine since last season. 

I remember when TT was hired he was quoted saying he wanted to build a team no one would want to play against. That was probably true before we became the most predictable team to line up against....

Now it seems like we're building a team that doesn't want to play for him. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Blues11

[blahblahblah 73]

I have wanted TT out and made my point about it long back (and was rudely ridiculed by some to the point of being called a "whiny bitch"). 

Problem with so many of us NOW wanting TT out is that it seems like a knee jerk to a couple of losses. 

If we want to sack TT, it should be because of the fact that he shows no improvement of the squad, attack, tactics. 

The squad we had last season (including Lukaku), was a great one. A couple of additions to that squad in the mid and better back up wing backs, and we should have been good to go. Instead TT has made us a massive cluster fuck. 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

2 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

I have wanted TT out and made my point about it long back (and was rudely ridiculed by some to the point of being called a "whiny bitch"). 

Problem with so many of us NOW wanting TT out is that it seems like a knee jerk to a couple of losses. 

If we want to sack TT, it should be because of the fact that he shows no improvement of the squad, attack, tactics. 

The squad we had last season (including Lukaku), was a great one. A couple of additions to that squad in the mid and better back up wing backs, and we should have been good to go. Instead TT has made us a massive cluster fuck. 

On paper maybe. But even then, debatable. Not even just debatable. It was a good squad.

I mean footballer isn’t won on paper - all the attackers and their inconsistencies, the lack of quality back up wing backs and to Kante. Likes of mediocrity of guys like Saul, Loftus-Cheek, Sarr, Barkley in it. “A great squad” … If thats a great squad then how do you describe City and Liverpools?

Or are you going to try and say that Tuchel is the reason Havertz, Werner, Ziyech, Pulisic all cant deliver consistently, despite the fact they didn't really do much consistently under Frank either? Or that TT is the reason RLC hasn’t done anything since barring a 3 month period under Sarri?

On a different note I think TT’s comments calling the team soft has hit the nail on the head. No point just pointing out the midfield being soft. The whole team is front to back. We’ve been soft for fucking years, I mean when we finally look like we are getting somewhere (ie we win a trophy/league/whatever) we seem to just fall away and its either the managers fault/lack of transfers (which maybe they shoulder some blame in some aspects) but players being weak mentally or getting carried away with winning one trophy definitely is a contribution too.

[blahblahblah 73]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

On paper maybe. But even then, debatable. Not even just debatable. It was a good squad.

I mean footballer isn’t won on paper - all the attackers and their inconsistencies, the lack of quality back up wing backs and to Kante. Likes of mediocrity of guys like Saul, Loftus-Cheek, Sarr, Barkley in it. “A great squad” … If thats a great squad then how do you describe City and Liverpools?

Or are you going to try and say that Tuchel is the reason Havertz, Werner, Ziyech, Pulisic all cant deliver consistently, despite the fact they didn't really do much consistently under Frank either? Or that TT is the reason RLC hasn’t done anything since barring a 3 month period under Sarri?

On a different note I think TT’s comments calling the team soft has hit the nail on the head. No point just pointing out the midfield being soft. The whole team is front to back. We’ve been soft for fucking years, I mean when we finally look like we are getting somewhere (ie we win a trophy/league/whatever) we seem to just fall away and its either the managers fault/lack of transfers (which maybe they shoulder some blame in some aspects) but players being weak mentally or getting carried away with winning one trophy definitely is a contribution too.

"Good squad".

Problem is that we have made narratives to suit our arguments and have gone ahead with it, to the point of rewriting history.

Go back exactly a year, and our squad was being compared to Liverpool and city. We were supposed to be challenging for the title. Just because we have severely underachieved, it does not change how good the squad was considered. 

And you talk about the players during Lampard's 4 months (Kai, Werner, ziyech specifically), but it was all down to poor management and chemistry. Each of them were balling for their clubs. Werner had scored 30+ goals, Kai had scored 20+, ziyech had balled in cl. 

Also, each squad has their share of Barkleys and rlc etc. You think Liverpool dont with origi, ox, tmikas, Adrian. Even city with ake, zincgenko. Our squad last year was supposed to do massive things. Don't let the players' and manager's under performance fool you otherwise.

[Mário César 1,284]

like him but he need to go 

[milka 3,393]

 We are just August month and it is already clear that we cannot fight for the title, even in the top four it will be difficult to enter .

Chelsea killed hopes after just 5 games

Depressing .

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by milka

[Mário César 1,284]

Just now, milka said:

 We are just August month and it is already clear that we cannot fight for the title, even in the top four it will be difficult to enter .

Depressing .

the beginning of new era start in this way

very sad 

[lucio 5,418]

Wasn’t this MF renown for ultra attacking football at Dortmund ? Correct me if I’m wrong 

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

Quite simple to remedy  -there are no leaders on the pitch, worse their are no fighters. Koulibaly is the ghost of Rudi, Pulisic the ghost of Hazard.... 

[didi007 69]

3 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

"Good squad".

Problem is that we have made narratives to suit our arguments and have gone ahead with it, to the point of rewriting history.

Go back exactly a year, and our squad was being compared to Liverpool and city. We were supposed to be challenging for the title. Just because we have severely underachieved, it does not change how good the squad was considered. 

And you talk about the players during Lampard's 4 months (Kai, Werner, ziyech specifically), but it was all down to poor management and chemistry. Each of them were balling for their clubs. Werner had scored 30+ goals, Kai had scored 20+, ziyech had balled in cl. 

Also, each squad has their share of Barkleys and rlc etc. You think Liverpool dont with origi, ox, tmikas, Adrian. Even city with ake, zincgenko. Our squad last year was supposed to do massive things. Don't let the players' and manager's under performance fool you otherwise.

Playing players in their wrong positions and not playing to their strengths is the reason he has to go. We had a strong squad but he never plays to their strengths. Spending £300m on new players will make no difference 

[YorkshireBlue 3,279]

4 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Quite simple to remedy  -there are no leaders on the pitch, worse their are no fighters. Koulibaly is the ghost of Rudi, Pulisic the ghost of Hazard.... 

Give KK a chance rudi was useless when he first joined.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

13 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

"Good squad".

Problem is that we have made narratives to suit our arguments and have gone ahead with it, to the point of rewriting history.

Go back exactly a year, and our squad was being compared to Liverpool and city. We were supposed to be challenging for the title. Just because we have severely underachieved, it does not change how good the squad was considered. 

And you talk about the players during Lampard's 4 months (Kai, Werner, ziyech specifically), but it was all down to poor management and chemistry. Each of them were balling for their clubs. Werner had scored 30+ goals, Kai had scored 20+, ziyech had balled in cl. 

Also, each squad has their share of Barkleys and rlc etc. You think Liverpool dont with origi, ox, tmikas, Adrian. Even city with ake, zincgenko. Our squad last year was supposed to do massive things. Don't let the players' and manager's under performance fool you otherwise.

Being compared and being the same are two different things mate. Look at PSGs squad for example, all those big hitters last year and they couldn’t get a really decent team out of them. Also, people in the media thought Man United could be competing for the title after signing Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho months after Ole had them 2nd.

The difference with guys like Origi, AOC, Ake, Zinchenko, Tmikias, compared to Saul, RLC, Alonso and Barkley are they are actually decent enough players and have secured/will secure good moves if they leave/were to leave. RLC and Ross wouldn’t (hence why hes off on a free and only partial link for RLC is Lazio due to lazy Sarri link from that 2 month purple patch he had here) and well Sauls back at Atletico and Alonso is only linked to Barca as a back up. 

Zinchenko has already shown he is actually a pretty good player at Arsenal and even at City at times last year. Just needed regular games. Origi didn't go to AC Milan, Serie A champions, who already have Ibra and Giroud for nothing. Ake wasn't linked/almost sign here for nothing. They're good players (although Ake not starting quality for the likes of a City). 

[robsblubot 3,595]

10 hours ago, Kong said:

Give KK a chance rudi was useless when he first joined.

Koulibaly is 33 and moves like Thiago Silva. Simply not comparable with Rudiger imo.

Regarding the quoted post, Eden was never a leader. Quite the opposite -- he was the guy who needed getting dragged to deliver.

[Blue Armour 4,448]

What does everyone here think of Arteta? Almost everyone agreed that his first few seasons sucked..

Now that Arsenal stuck with him and that he's on top of the table, what's your opinion? Is he a superior coach to Tuchel.

Genuinely curious what people think.

[blahblahblah 73]

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Being compared and being the same are two different things mate. Look at PSGs squad for example, all those big hitters last year and they couldn’t get a really decent team out of them. Also, people in the media thought Man United could be competing for the title after signing Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho months after Ole had them 2nd.

The difference with guys like Origi, AOC, Ake, Zinchenko, Tmikias, compared to Saul, RLC, Alonso and Barkley are they are actually decent enough players and have secured/will secure good moves if they leave/were to leave. RLC and Ross wouldn’t (hence why hes off on a free and only partial link for RLC is Lazio due to lazy Sarri link from that 2 month purple patch he had here) and well Sauls back at Atletico and Alonso is only linked to Barca as a back up. 

Zinchenko has already shown he is actually a pretty good player at Arsenal and even at City at times last year. Just needed regular games. Origi didn't go to AC Milan, Serie A champions, who already have Ibra and Giroud for nothing. Ake wasn't linked/almost sign here for nothing. They're good players (although Ake not starting quality for the likes of a City). 

I don't get why Barkley and rlc are so important to the conversation. We play a double pivot and Barkley and rlc were 5th and 6th choice for those positions. More than apt for those positions. 

Also, origi went to milan, as did bakayoko, and we all know how poor he was in Prem. 

Lastly, United were never in the conversation. They have the most delusional fan base and there might have been some noise here and there, but no one really expected anything from them. As for us, i do agree that having big hitters does not make you a guaranteed elite club, but that's the difference between having a klopp or pep compared to having a TT. It was his job to make it work and he has hopelessly underachieved. 

[Blues11 213]

2 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

What does everyone here think of Arteta? Almost everyone agreed that his first few seasons sucked..

Now that Arsenal stuck with him and that he's on top of the table, what's your opinion? Is he a superior coach to Tuchel.

Genuinely curious what people think.

I watched the whole season of All or Nothing and I can say Arteta did impress me. He holds players accountable but never forgets to improve the team chemistry and build confidence in his players.

He's done a fantastic job developing young talents like Saka, Martinelli, Smith Rowe, etc. Odegaard who some thought might not reach his potential has looked miles better under Arteta. Even Granit Xhaka has looked half way decent lately. 

I can't say he's better than Tuchel at the moment but I do think TT burns a lot of bridges in the dressing room. He doesn't really look interested in building the confidence of the team, just yelling and calling them out in the media as a tactic of motivation. Just take a look at how many players have left and want to leave here. Yeah we can sit here and say let them leave if they don't want to be a blue, but eventually you have to think there's more to it. 

 

[Blue Armour 4,448]

1 hour ago, Blues11 said:

I watched the whole season of All or Nothing and I can say Arteta did impress me. He holds players accountable but never forgets to improve the team chemistry and build confidence in his players.

He's done a fantastic job developing young talents like Saka, Martinelli, Smith Rowe, etc. Odegaard who some thought might not reach his potential has looked miles better under Arteta. Even Granit Xhaka has looked half way decent lately. 

I can't say he's better than Tuchel at the moment but I do think TT burns a lot of bridges in the dressing room. He doesn't really look interested in building the confidence of the team, just yelling and calling them out in the media as a tactic of motivation. Just take a look at how many players have left and want to leave here. Yeah we can sit here and say let them leave if they don't want to be a blue, but eventually you have to think there's more to it. 

 

Fair points, and whilst I do agree that Tuchel seems to be on a short fuse these days, I'd argue I've seen the same with Arteta too.

He practically drove Aubameyang out of the club (despite advocating for his contract extension initially), and also put Xhaka on the spot (rightfully so in this case) when he went on a red card spree.

Maybe Arteta is a calmer head behind the scenes, but I haven't seen Tuchel behind the scenes so can't compare.

@blahblahblah what's your take on Arteta v Tuchel? I saw you like the Blues11's post so surely you must have an opinion.

Personally for me, the jury is still out on Arteta. He's done a great job so far this season, but at the same time he was given a lot of time for his ideas to take hold, costing Arsenal even Europa conference league football along the way. 

By that token, Tuchel, while largely disappointing so far this season, has earned more time to bring his vision to fruition.

 

[blahblahblah 73]

44 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Fair points, and whilst I do agree that Tuchel seems to be on a short fuse these days, I'd argue I've seen the same with Arteta too.

He practically drove Aubameyang out of the club (despite advocating for his contract extension initially), and also put Xhaka on the spot (rightfully so in this case) when he went on a red card spree.

Maybe Arteta is a calmer head behind the scenes, but I haven't seen Tuchel behind the scenes so can't compare.

@blahblahblah what's your take on Arteta v Tuchel? I saw you like the Blues11's post so surely you must have an opinion.

Personally for me, the jury is still out on Arteta. He's done a great job so far this season, but at the same time he was given a lot of time for his ideas to take hold, costing Arsenal even Europa conference league football along the way. 

By that token, Tuchel, while largely disappointing so far this season, has earned more time to bring his vision to fruition.

 

It depends on what the club are trying to do? We have spent 250m+, infact 300m this window, right? How many windows and seasons do you need to add up to get that total for arsenal?

Arsenal were willing to take a step back, and let arteta do his thing by developing the youth, namely saka, martinelli, Smith Rowe. 

tT has no direction. He can't possibly develop youth when he either keeps loaning them out or outright selling them. He infact would rather have a 33 year old auba than develop broja. 

How can you possibly compare the 2? Different situations, different problem statements. TT had a bunch of talented players who had done it all, he needed to find a system to get the best out of them. Now he wants to revamp and build a team around auba for god's sake. If you want to give time to a manager, you would give to some one who is willing to start from the scratch, rather than bring additional baggage in the name of "revamping".

As for arteta, he is doing a good job. He is actually developing talent rather than buying the aubas of the world. 

Again, depends what you want. I would gladly take a step or 2 back, if it meant revamping the whole thing. But let's not fool ourselves with it when our manager wants to spent 300m on players and then give him the leeway of "needs time". Let me be honest, you think giving TT a pass on this season improves us? We will be in transition for the next year too when we have 30+ kante and jorgi leaving or singing an extension. 

This was the year to revamp our mid and start anew, TT screwed it up. Infact he refuses to even acknowledge our most problematic area as even a problem. 

TT has given us exactly what he could. A CL. Expecting him to set up a dynasty or make a club his own is wishful thinking. He is not that type of a manager. Look at his record. If you are looking for that, maybe arteta is someone more along those lines, or maybe poch. 

I honestly think we need a change. Sticking with TT will just be dragging out a failed marriage to its inevitable ugly end. We might end up losing even more talented players who HE has failed to get the best out of. 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by blahblahblah