The Tuchel Thread

[Milan 17,955]

Just saw the post season stats and this one stands out - 63 matches played, only 8 defeats.

It is the draws (17) that killed our chances.

[Blues Forever 1,232]

 

[lucio 5,418]

Legend , hope he stops the 5 at the back for next season , I’d rather a 4-3-3 like his psg 

[Strike 7,474]

On 24/05/2022 at 18:22, Milan said:

Just saw the post season stats and this one stands out - 63 matches played, only 8 defeats.

It is the draws (17) that killed our chances.

Sign of a conservative strategy

[manpe 10,861]

12 hours ago, lucio said:

Legend , hope he stops the 5 at the back for next season , I’d rather a 4-3-3 like his psg 

All depends on the players he will have at his disposal I suppose. If Chelsea team consisted only of players that PSG, City or Liverpool have, no way would he be playing 5 atb. It was never his go-to formation at Dortmund or PSG, only at Chelsea did he make it his main one for reasons that we saw under Lampard. We need at least 2 CBs who can play in 4 atb formation without being babysitted and a proper DMF in front of them (Jorginho is not it)... Somewhy I doubt we can pull them all off this summer, we will probably need one more summer transfer window.

 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

3 minutes ago, manpe said:

All depends on the players he will have at his disposal I suppose. If Chelsea team consisted only of players that PSG, City or Liverpool have, no way would he be playing 5 atb. It was never his go-to formation at Dortmund or PSG, only at Chelsea did he make it his main one for reasons that we saw under Lampard. We need at least 2 CBs who can play in 4 atb formation without being babysitted and a proper DMF in front of them (Jorginho is not it)... Somewhy I doubt we can pull them all off this summer, we will probably need one more summer transfer window.

 

The funny thing is Jorginho was great in 4-3-3 either with Italy or Napoli. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Blues Forever

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

26 minutes ago, Blues Forever said:

The funny thing is Jorginho was great in 4-3-3 either with Italy or Napoli. 

But international football is vastly slower than the Premier league. It's more tactical. Same with Serie A. It has 40 year old's winning the golden boot so that gives another indication of how slow the league is in comparison to the Prem. 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

11 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

But international football is vastly slower than the Premier league. It's more tactical. Same with Serie A. It has 40 year old's winning the golden boot so that gives another indication of how slow the league is in comparison to the Prem. 

The thing is Jorginho can function with the right setup and personnel beside him. With Italy he have Barella, Verratti, Locatelli to offer extra protection and allowing to maximize his strength. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Blues Forever

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

Just now, Blues Forever said:

The thing is Jorginho can function with the right setup and personnel. With Italy he have Barella, Verratti, Locatelli to offer extra protection and allowing to maximize his strength. 

I'm sure he can but at what cost? Italy won the Euros but this is also the same Italy that failed to qualify for the world cup. 2nd straight time. 7 defensive minded players on the pitch with only one coherent attacker (Chiesa)

I think we have done the best  we possibly can with Jorginho in the XI. 

 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

Just now, MoroccanBlue said:

I'm sure he can but at what cost? Italy won the Euros but this is also the same Italy that failed to qualify for the world cup. 2nd straight time. 7 defensive minded players on the pitch with only one coherent attacker (Chiesa)

I think we have done the best  we possibly can with Jorginho in the XI. 

 

Italy failed was more to with their shite attacker. Apart from Chiesa none of them are world class.

[Clockwork 1,794]

For me this is my biggest issue with Tuchel

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

Can anyone confirm if we were closer to City/Liverpool in chance creation under Lampard? Still think 5 defenders and two conservative central midfielders primarily the reason. 

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

40 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Can anyone confirm if we were closer to City/Liverpool in chance creation under Lampard? Still think 5 defenders and two conservative central midfielders primarily the reason. 

I think the reason  is tuchel team is bascally assorted from every other managers play style, our biggest problem is we never kept a manager long enough to build a team. 1 or 2 players here n there they get sacked next manager adds 2 or 3 with a different style so on and so forth. Hopefully we will be able to  watch a manager build a team around how he wants to play and not just work with 4 others managers players.

[Jype 6,398]

14 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Can anyone confirm if we were closer to City/Liverpool in chance creation under Lampard? Still think 5 defenders and two conservative central midfielders primarily the reason. 

Not bothered to check any underlying metrics other than xG but here goes.

 

2019/20 season (full Lampard):

- Liverpool xG was 75,2 and goals scored 85.

- Man City xG was 102,2 and goals scored 102.

- Chelsea xG 76,2 and goals scored 69.

 

2020/21 season (half Lampard / half Tuchel):

- Man City xG 77,7 and goals scored 83.

- Liverpool xG 72,2 and goals scored 68.

- Chelsea overall xG 68,7 and goals scored 58.

- Under Lampard first half of the season xG 32,5 an goals scored 33.

- Under Tuchel second half of the season xG 36,2 and goals scored 25.

 

2021/22 season (full Tuchel):

- Man City xG 93,4 and goals scored 99.

- Liverpool xG 93,0 and goals scored 94.

- Chelsea xG 69,3 and goals scored 76.

 

 

Man City have always been a lot higher but as far as Liverpool goes, this past season high was an exception in their xG created and not the normal. Under Klopp their xG/season has averaged around 70-77, which is really not all that much more than Chelsea under Tuchel this season or the second half of last season. 

As for Chelsea the numbers for 1.5 seasons of Lampard (108.7 xG) and 1.5 seasons of Tuchel (105.5 xG) are pretty close but at the same time there's been a big improvement defensively.

One of course has to also consider that Klopp and Pep have been at their clubs since 2015 and 2016 so they've had a lot more time to build their respective teams and train attacking play patterns etc. than Tuchel has. Those two are considered two of the best teams in recent football history so it would've been a miracle if Tuchel came in and was immediately as good or better than them.

 

[Clockwork 1,794]

Stats aside, you can see with your own eyes there is so much more pattern to the way Pool and City attack.