The Tuchel Thread

[OneMoSalah 8,810]

13 minutes ago, Jase said:

bUt We MuSt ChAnGe FoRmAtIoN!

There were a lot who were absolutely certain we would move away from the back 3 this season. Why they thought that, I don’t know, considering the solidity and springboard it gave us to go win the CL and also get to the FA cup final but would say as long as TT is here, 343 is the way to go. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,542]

Given up 3 goals all season.

2 penalties

1 open play

[Jase 43,479]

36 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

There were a lot who were absolutely certain we would move away from the back 3 this season. Why they thought that, I don’t know, considering the solidity and springboard it gave us to go win the CL and also get to the FA cup final but would say as long as TT is here, 343 is the way to go. 

I was one of them. I thought Tuchel might try out the back 4 at some point.

What I don't agree is people saying we should change formation because of the attacking problems. Don't like how people simplify the issue down to the formation. It's not black and white. We have played the back 4 countless of times before in the past and looked toothless as well. 

[OneMoSalah 8,810]

1 hour ago, Jase said:

I was one of them. I thought Tuchel might try out the back 4 at some point.

What I don't agree is people saying we should change formation because of the attacking problems. Don't like how people simplify the issue down to the formation. It's not black and white. We have played the back 4 countless of times before in the past and looked toothless as well. 

I think he did use it in a cup game? Last season? Then quickly changed to 3 again IIRC. I think if we didn’t have as successful a season with the 343 (with the CL, getting to cup final and general upturn in results and performances) he maybe would of changed it in the summer. Fully agree it won’t fix the attacking issues. Not a chance.

Felt the wingbacks today (also did notice it v Malmo) gave us something more today when they were coming inside, they gave us a lot more options when playing in the middle third and made it easier to get Mason and CHO on the ball in the final third by vacating these spaces outside, dragging the Norwich fullbacks in. Also helped create overloads in central midfield.

Hopefully we continue to use this at times to make our build up play more flexible.

Edited October 23, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Superblue 6,372]

Just looking at the options in the betting for next United manager and lots of United fans not convinced on the options they could replace Ole with only emphasises how fortunate we got with bringing Tuchel in when we did.

From the outside looking in, the club seem to have found a world class coach that so far has been incredibly low maintenance, represents the club impeccably and doesn't want more power at the club or to get involved in areas that shouldn't be of a concern to him. 

From Tuchel's perspective, it feels he has found a top club with the resources and squad to challenge for trophies, but also will just allow him to focus on the coaching side.

This is Chelsea, so past experience usually suggests that something will likely happen to derail this but it does feel at the moment that both have found what they're looking for. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,903]

On 23/10/2021 at 19:21, OneMoSalah said:

Felt the wingbacks today (also did notice it v Malmo) gave us something more today when they were coming inside

Especially Dave against Malmo. The phrase that came to mind time and again was, "Where the heck is Azpi playing?" He frequently received the ball around the D of their box with his back to goal. Amazing.

[Tomo 21,736]

4 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Just looking at the options in the betting for next United manager and lots of United fans not convinced on the options they could replace Ole with only emphasises how fortunate we got with bringing Tuchel in when we did.

From the outside looking in, the club seem to have found a world class coach that so far has been incredibly low maintenance, represents the club impeccably and doesn't want more power at the club or to get involved in areas that shouldn't be of a concern to him. 

From Tuchel's perspective, it feels he has found a top club with the resources and squad to challenge for trophies, but also will just allow him to focus on the coaching side.

This is Chelsea, so past experience usually suggests that something will likely happen to derail this but it does feel at the moment that both have found what they're looking for. 

I'm fully sold on Tuchel tactically but my one worry from the minute he arrived was his record in the market and his signings so far have done nothing to alleviate my fears. Although that said I think the one we missed (Kounde) would have been a huge hit.

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

33 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I'm fully sold on Tuchel tactically but my one worry from the minute he arrived was his record in the market and his signings so far have done nothing to alleviate my fears. Although that said I think the one we missed (Kounde) would have been a huge hit.

 

How so?

Lukaku is without a doubt a club signing. Considering the lack of alternatives and the pressure Tuchel is under, a goal scorer was indefinitely needed so of course Tuchel would be on board. 

You then have to take a look at the players Tuchel reportedly wanted. 

Hakimi

Tchouaméni

Lacroix

Kounde

All of these players would of benefited the team in a positive way. Kounde from what I have seen is defensively naïve, but Chalobah and to some extent Sarr have looked far more discipline the more time they spent under Tuchel. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,542]

I think Tuchel was honest when he said his opinion is asked on transfer decisions but his main task was to evaluate all of our loan players and current players for the upcoming season. I would not consider any of our signings to be Tuchel signings.

[Clockwork 1,794]

3 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

How so?

Lukaku is without a doubt a club signing. Considering the lack of alternatives and the pressure Tuchel is under, a goal scorer was indefinitely needed so of course Tuchel would be on board. 

You then have to take a look at the players Tuchel reportedly wanted. 

Hakimi

Tchouaméni

Lacroix

Kounde

All of these players would of benefited the team in a positive way. Kounde from what I have seen is defensively naïve, but Chalobah and to some extent Sarr have looked far more discipline the more time they spent under Tuchel. 

Lukaku said he was set to stay at Milan, but Tuchel convinced him and biggest reason he changed his mind. 
 

The board would have no interest in signing Lukaku if Tuchel didn’t want him. He doesn’t fit their profile from a financial and long term standpoint. 
 

you have to remember the board were here before Tuchel, and will be here much after Tuchel. They want to sign young players and with potential resale value. 
 

who knows how long Tuchel will be here, and he knows that. He is not thinking long term, he is thinking what gives him the best opportunity right now. 

[Tomo 21,736]

4 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

How so?

Lukaku is without a doubt a club signing. Considering the lack of alternatives and the pressure Tuchel is under, a goal scorer was indefinitely needed so of course Tuchel would be on board. 

You then have to take a look at the players Tuchel reportedly wanted. 

Hakimi

Tchouaméni

Lacroix

Kounde

All of these players would of benefited the team in a positive way. Kounde from what I have seen is defensively naïve, but Chalobah and to some extent Sarr have looked far more discipline the more time they spent under Tuchel. 

Board signing is a bit of a copout, at absolute worst Tuchel was happy with the signing hence him beaming in the presser (after his arrival) and then playing him for every minute he's been available for bar the last part against Brentford (League cup doesn't count as we were always go for a scratch side in that competition at the early stages unless we get a big draw).

Also given our entire squad bar about three players have now scored it's looking more increasingly like we've been a little overzealous compromising our system to accommodate a focal point, as I absolutely feared would happen.

[Superblue 6,372]

4 hours ago, Tomo said:

I'm fully sold on Tuchel tactically but my one worry from the minute he arrived was his record in the market and his signings so far have done nothing to alleviate my fears. Although that said I think the one we missed (Kounde) would have been a huge hit.

 

I think it's far too early to judge Lukaku and I'm certain there will be games throughout the season where he is the difference maker between maximum points or not in some tight games. 

Saul currently looks like not working out but it's a loan signing to cover an area we were potentially weak in depth within. If he doesn't work out like it's looking then the risk has been kept to a minimum.

Add to this too he's found solutions. We didn't sign Kounde but he's brought through Chalobah who's really establishing himself within the squad. And Saul has struggled to adapt, but he's started rebuilding RLC into another good option within the squad like he was pre injury.

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

27 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Board signing is a bit of a copout, at absolute worst Tuchel was happy with the signing hence him beaming in the presser (after his arrival) and then playing him for every minute he's been available for bar the last part against Brentford (League cup doesn't count as we were always go for a scratch side in that competition at the early stages unless we get a big draw).

Also given our entire squad bar about three players have now scored it's looking more increasingly like we've been a little overzealous compromising our system to accommodate a focal point, as I absolutely feared would happen.

So you reckon Tuchel should've been against it from the start? I'm fairly certain expectations have been set by the club and a title challenge is needed on the back of a European Cup win. Maybe Tuchel felt security adding a goal scorer into the team? Maybe Tuchel felt it would be best to have said goal scorer get used to the team from the get-go, hence the continuous starts?

Make no mistake, I prefer the front three that won us the Champions League, but I think you are well over the top criticising Tuchel's signings at the moment when it is still far too early. 

[NikkiCFC 8,081]

Most impressive thing about TT is that he made worst defense statistically Chelsea had in the last 30 years under Lampard to be by far best in the world. And potentially best in history if we break some records this season. 

[Vesper 29,198]

Chelsea’s Cobham-charged title challenge can prove the doubters wrong for good

https://theathletic.com/2909124/2021/10/24/chelseas-cobham-charged-title-challenge-can-prove-the-doubters-wrong-for-good/

Remember when people said the only reason Chelsea’s academy players were getting game time was because the club had been given a transfer ban?

It was an accusation mainly expressed by opposition supporters during 2019-20 — Frank Lampard’s first season in charge. However, some of the cynicism came from within Chelsea’s fanbase, as well as pundits working in the media.

Chelsea weren’t able to spend in the summer of 2019 after breaking FIFA’s transfer rules regarding the recruitment of young players. To compensate for the disadvantage, Lampard bolstered the squad from the youth ranks.

The feeling among the naysayers was that the moment Chelsea would be able to spend again, the club would return to their old ways and ignore the quality they develop themselves in their Cobham academy.

It demeaned the courage of Lampard’s team selection and the ability of the personnel he picked during that campaign. Players such as Tammy Abraham and Mason Mount were chosen ahead of more experienced and costly players because of how good they were, not as a box-ticking exercise.

In the first nine Premier League fixtures under the former England midfielder, academy players made 34 appearances out of the possible 126 (11 starters and three subs) available. A return of 27 per cent.

That youthful exuberance was a major factor in Chelsea going on to secure a top four finish and qualification for the Champions League. A very notable achievement, which Lampard should be given credit for.

But when Chelsea broke their club spending record to sign five players in the summer of 2020, investing in excess of £200 million, the critics saw it as a sign that their negative forecast was going to be proven accurate. The lack of appearances for Fikayo Tomori and Callum Hudson-Odoi, plus Ruben Loftus-Cheek’s departure on loan to Fulham, provided some early evidence of that prediction coming true.

Lampard’s sacking in January and the appointment of Thomas Tuchel appeared to be another setback for the youngsters. Hudson-Odoi was the only academy graduate to start the German’s first game at the helm against Wolves, with Mount and Abraham named on the bench. Andreas Christensen didn’t even make the 20-man squad.

Tuchel didn’t negate Lampard’s work though. Notably, Mount, Christensen and Reece James all featured in the Champions League final victory over Manchester City in May.

However, the lack of appearances for Billy Gilmour, Abraham and Hudson-Odoi provided cause for alarm. The first two left in the last transfer window to get regular first team football (Abraham on a permanent basis to Roma, Gilmour on loan to Norwich). Tomori, who had gone to AC Milan on loan at the start of the year, joined the Serie A club on a permanent basis. Just as worrying were the departures of the next set of quality homegrown players in Marc Guehi, Tino Livramento and Lewis Bate because they couldn’t see a pathway into the senior team.

But one of the reasons those three didn’t see a possibility to make the breakthrough was because of the academy graduates already ahead of them in the pecking order. Tuchel hasn’t abandoned what’s gone on before and has added Trevoh Chalobah to the group, as well as reintegrating Loftus-Cheek.

An indication of this is that after nine Premier League fixtures this season, 32 out of the possible 126 appearances have been made by academy players (25 per cent). That is just two fewer than under Lampard a couple of years ago.

Significantly, in Chelsea’s last two Premier League matches, five homegrown players have been given minutes. Of the starting XI for Saturday’s 7-0 thrashing of Norwich, four came from the academy. Five of the seven goals were scored by homegrown talents (Mount with a hat-trick, Hudson-Odoi and James with one each), and three of the goals were assisted by academy players (Mount, Hudson-Odoi and Loftus-Cheek). Their contribution is undeniable.

It’s not just going forward too. They have all played their part in Chelsea boasting the best defensive record in the Premier League. The clean sheet against Norwich was the club’s sixth of the season and they have conceded just three league goals so far — and only one from open play.

Asked whether this was another special day for the academy, Tuchel told the Fifth Stand App: “Yes. This shows and proves the quality of the academy. I’m very happy to have players from there, what they are doing is amazing. The door is always open and it has to be like this. It makes the club special if you have boys from the academy on the pitch. When they are decisive like they were (against Norwich), it is even better.”

Chalobah is the only youngster Tuchel has promoted himself thus far and he is benefitting from the experience the others have already earned over the years. As Mount, Christensen, Loftus-Cheek, James and Hudson-Odoi are all internationals it is not a huge gamble to play them now. One suspects it won’t be long before Chalobah gets rewarded for his form by England to complete the set — and head coach Gareth Southgate was at Stamford Bridge to witness the Norwich rout.

The last time Chelsea won the Premier League in 2017, homegrown players weren’t much of a factor. Nathan Ake, Ola Aina, Nathaniel Chalobah and Loftus-Cheek registered two starts and 19 substitute appearances between them. Even one of the club’s greatest academy graduates, former captain John Terry, only had a minor role (six starts, three subs) in what was his last campaign.

There is a long way to go, but Chelsea are showing the qualities required to win the title again — it would be their sixth Premier League crown in 17 years and a seventh championship overall. But should they succeed, it would be the first in the Roman Abramovich era where the academy has played such a major part.

Succeed and Tuchel’s sextet might just silence the doubters for good.

[milka 3,362]

 

[Mário César 1,045]

 

 

[NikkiCFC 8,081]

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