The Tuchel Thread

[NikkiCFC 7,896]

22 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

The idea he thinks CHO will forget what happened today in the morning shows that he is naive.

 

He may think hes just a kid but one never knows where player power can come from.

Mourinho replaced Matic after 15-20 minutes in Chelsea and Matic still joined him in United later. 

[Azul 1,615]

Does anyone agree that we may have had the worst transfer window in our history? Questions have to be asked of our scouts and board to be honest. Time will tell though.

[Magic Lamps 11,624]

The thing is, today was only the first time it went wrong. We have been offensively terrible every game under Tuchel, not create enough chances and do not convert them convincingly. This was bound to happen and will happen again. We really are not very far ahead in our progress and that is why we still of to wait for him to ban the dregs from the starting lineup

[killer1257 3,282]

17 minutes ago, Azul said:

Does anyone agree that we may have had the worst transfer window in our history? Questions have to be asked of our scouts and board to be honest. Time will tell though.

I just think most of our transfers were based on big names, instead of what is best for our squad. We bought Werner, who has many weaknesses and can only play a certain way of football. We had bad luck that Ziyech got injured several times already and he now does not get his match sharpness back due to lack of minutes. Kai played in positions he can't play. Chilwell is a very inconsistent player

Silva obviously is a godly transfer, but he came for free 😂. 

[Azul 1,615]

5 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I just think most of our transfers were based on big names, instead of what is best for our squad. We bought Werner, who has many weaknesses and can only play a certain way of football. We had bad luck that Ziyech got injured several times already and he now does not get his match sharpness back due to lack of minutes. Kai played in positions he can't play. Chilwell is a very inconsistent player

Silva obviously is a godly transfer, but he came for free 😂. 

It's such a shame, out of all those transfer I only doubted the Chilwell one. I never thought Timo would be this bad, Ziyech as well.

[killer1257 3,282]

2 minutes ago, Azul said:

It's such a shame, out of all those transfer I only doubted the Chilwell one. I never thought Timo would be this bad, Ziyech as well.

I was one of the only guys that did not want Timo at Chelsea because of his lack of technique, passing skills and finishing abilities. In Bundesliga, guys like Andre Silva can score 30 goals, but I doubt he is PL material 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

50 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I like Tuchel, but this decision in particular has worried me. Why, on earth, did he put Zouma as the sweeper and not Christensen? Why? What exactly is the reason? You know what you are going to get when you have Zouma partnering Rudiger, but having our worst ball distributor partnering Rudiger in the sweeper role? When Christensen was fit and has had some good performances as the sweeper?

Again, when the managers start making decisions 99% other people can see, no room to defend. 

He is saving him for AM cuz it looks like TS wont be fit.

46 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Where did we struggle against the press? Southampton barely pressed us all game. We had excess possession, especially in the first half. The only time we conceded the initiative were in the minutes following Mount's penalty and before Kovacic was subbed off.

We did well to control the game overall, but we were let down by:

1. Poor decision making and lack of invention in final 3'rd (apart from Mount)

2. Zouma playing as sweeper (poor awareness shown for runners behind)

3. Tuchel's reluctance to ditch the 3 CB formation and bring on an additional attacker when we were trying score the second.

Ever since Tuchel got here, the one thing that has dramatically improved is our quality in the first 2/3'rds of our pitch. The players are clearly being well instructed to control the game and deal with pressure. We're playing out from the back a lot better.

But I guess there's only so much a coach can do when dealing with a lack of quality from the players (Rudiger's brain fart for his own goal, Zouma not noticing Minamino and terrible choices in the final third).

We need better players end of, we need a Haaland for starters.

[Jase 43,479]

28 minutes ago, Azul said:

Does anyone agree that we may have had the worst transfer window in our history? Questions have to be asked of our scouts and board to be honest. Time will tell though.

It's still too early to tell but here's what I'd say,

1. Not sure if the board had any plan on what kind of squad they want to have when they bought these players, especially when they decide to take a different route from the manager. If you look at the squad, it's kinda mish-mash. For instance, we have a group of players who look better in a back 3 and another that look better in a back 4. And there's also the fact that the board buy their own players, which may not suit the manager, and buy players that the manager wants. There's not much a holistic view to the squad building, like at Man City or even Liverpool.

2. It's been difficult for the team in general to develop any kind of consistent playing style in recent years. We have gone from Conte's pragmatic football to Sarri's possession football to Lampard's freestyle football to now Tuchel's gegenpressing/possession football. Couple that with the turnover of players - players being bought, sold or release - it's difficult to develop the players and the playing style. It wasn't like back in Mourinho's first reign here, where he got to build and develop the team and then it went on to have success, not just under him but also under different managers while playing largely the same way.

3. I don't think the players we bought last summer are bad. They have their qualities. The problems here are (a) they haven't played long enough together to develop the chemistry/understanding with one another, (b) we do not having a consistent playing style as mentioned above for players to just immediately come in and easily make an impact and (c) none of the players we bought are in their peak and fully established players yet, except maybe Ziyech. All of our academy players are still in their early 20s and so are our recent signings - Havertz, Pulisic, and maybe Werner at a push although he's entering his peak years I guess at 25. Only Ziyech is in his peak age. We have been so used to buying players in their peak, established players in the last decade that this squad development process feels very frustrating and maybe even alien-ish. We are used to seeing players coming in and making instant impact - e.g. Costa and Fabregas. Now, we're having to live through the inconsistency that comes with these younger players and players that's come from different leagues, during a pandemic season no less, while trying to be successful at the same time. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,684]

Think the elephant in the room is players attitude. Technically we have a World beating squad, but theres no way they would be lacking in ruthlessness in front of goal under Klopp, Simeone. 

Need to take a leaf out of that Minaminos book and learn to be cool, direct, with animal cunning in front of goal

On the positive -most are young and will improve

[OneMoSalah 8,751]

1 hour ago, Azul said:

Does anyone agree that we may have had the worst transfer window in our history? Questions have to be asked of our scouts and board to be honest. Time will tell though.

Is this based on the fact two players we signed haven’t settled or got a consistent run in the team? And that Werner has been disappointing? 

Think Chilwell despite recent struggles has been a good buy, Thiago Silva on a free has been very good, a shrewd move and Mendy has been pretty solid. 

Worst transfer window in our history is a bit of a stretch. Not even close to the worst window in our last 10 years probably. The season Mourinho got sacked second time round was worse, Baba Rahmann, Papi Djib however you spell it, Falcao, Kenedy, Nathan, Michael Hector, Danilo Pantic etc. Then the January didnt get better, Pato and Matt Miazga.

The return hasnt been great but considering Werner, Havertz, Chilwell are all under 25 and theres a huge chance that down the line we will be saying these signings were very good.  

I still remember folk being slightly frustrated at Hazard in his first season due to his inconsistencies at times. Look how that turned out. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Azul 1,615]

25 minutes ago, Jason said:

It's still too early to tell but here's what I'd say,

1. Not sure if the board had any plan on what kind of squad they want to have when they bought these players, especially when they decide to take a different route from the manager. If you look at the squad, it's kinda mish-mash. For instance, we have a group of players who look better in a back 3 and another that look better in a back 4. And there's also the fact that the board buy their own players, which may not suit the manager, and buy players that the manager wants. There's not much a holistic view to the squad building, like at Man City or even Liverpool.

2. It's been difficult for the team in general to develop any kind of consistent playing style in recent years. We have gone from Conte's pragmatic football to Sarri's possession football to Lampard's freestyle football to now Tuchel's gegenpressing/possession football. Couple that with the turnover of players - players being bought, sold or release - it's difficult to develop the players and the playing style. It wasn't like back in Mourinho's first reign here, where he got to build and develop the team and then it went on to have success, not just under him but also under different managers while playing largely the same way.

3. I don't think the players we bought last summer are bad. They have their qualities. The problems here are (a) they haven't played long enough together to develop the chemistry/understanding with one another, (b) we do not having a consistent playing style as mentioned above for players to just immediately come in and easily make an impact and (c) none of the players we bought are in their peak and fully established players yet, except maybe Ziyech. All of our academy players are still in their early 20s and so are our recent signings - Havertz, Pulisic, and maybe Werner at a push although he's entering his peak years I guess at 25. Only Ziyech is in his peak age. We have been so used to buying players in their peak, established players in the last decade that this squad development process feels very frustrating and maybe even alien-ish. We are used to seeing players coming in and making instant impact - e.g. Costa and Fabregas. Now, we're having to live through the inconsistency that comes with these younger players and players that's come from different leagues, during a pandemic season no less, while trying to be successful at the same time. 

Very true, and the squad does look out of depth in terms of players that play in very different systems are put together in the same team.

[Azul 1,615]

9 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Is this based on the fact two players we signed haven’t settled or got a consistent run in the team? And that Werner has been disappointing? 

Think Chilwell despite recent struggles has been a good buy, Thiago Silva on a free has been very good, a shrewd move and Mendy has been pretty solid. 

Worst transfer window in our history is a bit of a stretch. Not even close to the worst window in our last 10 years probably. The season Mourinho got sacked second time round was worse, Baba Rahmann, Papi Djib however you spell it, Falcao, Kenedy, Nathan, Michael Hector, Danilo Pantic etc. Then the January didnt get better, Pato and Matt Miazga.

The return hasnt been great but considering Werner, Havertz, Chilwell are all under 25 and theres a huge chance that down the line we will be saying these signings were very good.  

I still remember folk being slightly frustrated at Hazard in his first season due to his inconsistencies at times. Look how that turned out. 

My statement has to do with players showing a lack of fundamental footballing skills. The stuff I'm seeing from Werner is not good enough at all. Not only is he not able to finish clear 1 on 1 chances, but his ball control and movement on the ball is incredibly awful. Him not being in form is an excuse, because even if players are out of form they should still have some fundamental footballing skills. If this is Werner out of form, then does this mean we will see more of this in the future when he becomes out of form again? It's not good enough in my opinion.

Chilwell since November, when he faced teams with a pulse, has been horrible. His movement for a fullback at the highest level has not been good enough as well, he is not able to beat a man 1 on 1, and all he seems to do is spam crosses. His defending is something else that has been suspect, and there is no excuse for him, because he played in the Premier League for years. There is a reason why Leicester fans were happy when he left.

I concede that this transfer window is not the worst ever, it's up there though with the amount of money we've spent on possible flops.

Hazard not having a first good season is the biggest myth I've ever heard. The guy scored 13 goals and had 24 assists! Furthermore, it wasn't like he was scoring tap ins, he was scoring some quality screamers. Those numbers are ridiculous for a winger that has just come to the Premier League. Where did the assumption that he didn't perform come from?

[Beigl 1,387]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

I dread Atletico. We will not any goal in both legs playing like this. So disjointed.

Not happy with our performances so far. I only managed to swallow them because we were winning.

Atletico is currently losing to Levante, so there is hope. 😅

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

I dread Atletico. We will not any goal in both legs playing like this. So disjointed.

Not happy with our performances so far. I only managed to swallow them because we were winning.

 

2 minutes ago, Beigl said:

Atletico is currently losing to Levante, so there is hope. 😅

MORE HOPE!

 

[Blue Armour 4,251]

2 minutes ago, Beigl said:

Atletico is currently losing to Levante, so there is hope. 😅

Sorry to burst your bubble, but when has facing a team that came off a poor result ever been an advantage this season?

Chelsea is always ready to put you back up on your feet.

[killer1257 3,282]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

MORE HOPE!

 

Soton also lost their last six matches. Not a good sign at all lol

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, killer1257 said:

Soton also lost their last six matches. Not a good sign at all lol

TAKE WHAT WE CAN GET AND RUN WITH IT!

[OneMoSalah 8,751]

18 minutes ago, Azul said:

My statement has to do with players showing a lack of fundamental footballing skills. The stuff I'm seeing from Werner is not good enough at all. Not only is he not able to finish clear 1 on 1 chances, but his ball control and movement on the ball is incredibly awful. Him not being in form is an excuse, because even if players are out of form they should still have some fundamental footballing skills. If this is Werner out of form, then does this mean we will see more of this in the future when he becomes out of form again? It's not good enough in my opinion.

Chilwell since November, when he faced teams with a pulse, has been horrible. His movement for a fullback at the highest level has not been good enough as well, he is not able to beat a man 1 on 1, and all he seems to do is spam crosses. His defending is something else that has been suspect, and there is no excuse for him, because he played in the Premier League for years. There is a reason why Leicester fans were happy when he left.

I concede that this transfer window is not the worst ever, it's up there though with the amount of money we've spent on possible flops.

Hazard not having a first good season is the biggest myth I've ever heard. The guy scored 13 goals and had 24 assists! Furthermore, it wasn't like he was scoring tap ins, he was scoring some quality screamers. Those numbers are ridiculous for a winger that has just come to the Premier League. Where did the assumption that he didn't perform come from?

I agree with Werner and for his price and experience the expectations are different from the others but he has struggled. He still has it in him to turn it around and has shown considerable improvement with TT bar today. Although why he couldnt deliver some of the things weve seen such as his assist for Mount v Newcastle under Lampard I dont know because it was good play, in a position he found himself in with Frank out on the left. 

Chilwell has been poor since the turn of the year, offensively he hasnt been as bad as you make out for me but defensively he has shown weakness in certain games but some of us expected that signing him. I still have no doubts in a flat back 4 he is better than Alonso and Emerson considerably. I think again, he can only improve and up to late November/December people would of been happy with what they seen from him.

Believe me, there were people who felt Eden could have done more, particularly when we played bigger teams. Stats are good but also, in the CL he was virtually anonymous the whole campaign and the only really good team we played was Juventus. He was poor in  both legs v Shakhtar and only really performed well against Nordsjaelland. Also in the super cup, against another big team, didnt do much. Plus the club world cup final, again, felt he was poor as most were and that Rafa infamous substitution of Ivanovic for Azpi in the latter stages of that game summed it up. Oscar maybe also got the same criticism and although he was less talented, he showed also that after a season, he improved.

Eden did have impressive stats overall but lets not forget that stats aren’t exactly everything and as ever, people expected more from him in key moments as he had the talent. Kai will be held in the same regards if not worse due to his price. The point being that it takes time. Writing him off is dangerous as we have seen over the years with KdB and Salah who didnt do much here in a short space of time and were eventually let go. Not saying we would be so daft to let Kai go but sometimes you have to accept there will be teething problems and he may need more time. I always think for players of this talent and age maybe we should give them a season although I have been initially disappointed with the games he did play due to basic things such as giving the ball away too much and running into people. 

Should really wait until end of the season before writing people off. Maybe even see what happens in the summer because I have no doubts Tuchel will want to make his own additions and its not a well hidden secret that we lack a top clinical CF who would arguably take this team up a notch. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by OneMoSalah