The Tuchel Thread

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Tbf letting your attack "freestyle" in the final third isn't nesseserily that bad a thing atleast sometimes, if you micromanage their final third movements too much there's a risk it could look like LVG ball.

Where the coaches are needed the most are the first two thirds of the pitch and in that respect you can see the huge improvement already. Henry said that was pretty much how Pep managed at Barca, told his squad that he will help them to the final third but then it was down to them.

Agree with your point about micromanaging but the problem with Lampard's freestyle football is that the players did not seem to have a defined role or position under him. It became a case of Lampard just putting players in this and that position and just letting them do their own things, without any obvious tactical plan. It's basically the opposite of micromanaging. There's no balance between the two. It's why as a team, we always looked loose under Lampard. Compare and contrast what we saw under him to what Tuchel said and what we've seen so far under him:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/feb/03/thomas-tuchel-determined-to-get-the-right-tune-out-of-Chelsea

“I believe in a disciplined structure,” Tuchel said. “It gives us the chance to play faster because everybody knows where the other guy is. It gives us the chance to give every player a couple of possibilities to choose. When we lose the ball we can start effective counter-pressing.

“It’s just to give possibilities and it always stays the choice of the players, what decision they take. Maybe Mason Mount goes for a different solution than Hakim Ziyech on the same position, for sure he will than for Kai Havertz, but I absolutely want that they have all one, two, three, four options to take. There are players that will take the fifth one or sixth one that I don’t even think about.”

[Henrique 9,133]

Now we do have a proper coach. 3 months is enough to see the coach's job is going anywhere, and it was clear not the case with the previous job, when the team was playing worse and worse and the season progressed. 

[ZAPHOD2319 3,868]

After watching the press conference, I think I picked up on something that people may have missed. I think Tuchel likes Kante a little bit. 

[Tomo 21,681]

17 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

After watching the press conference, I think I picked up on something that people may have missed. I think Tuchel likes Kante a little bit. 

I just hope Tuchel utilizes him well, even when things were looking good/hopeful under Frank the use of Kante was the one thing he was getting laughably wrong. He punctured our momentum three times by shoehorning Kante back in straight away once he was available again.

[Superblue 6,331]

43 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I just hope Tuchel utilizes him well, even when things were looking good/hopeful under Frank the use of Kante was the one thing he was getting laughably wrong. He punctured our momentum three times by shoehorning Kante back in straight away once he was available again.

How Tuchel has spoken about Kante fills me with more hope that he will use him properly. 

He's never been better than the 2 title winning seasons for Leicester and us under Conte playing in a 2 man midfield with somebody who will afford him the opportunity to press and hunt the ball. I'm not sure he works as well with Kovacic to be honest who I think also needs to be afforded a similar freedom to his movement, but Jorginho and Gilmour in my opinion are more disciplined in their position in the midfield and can give Kante more freedom to play this way.

On a side note, I still think we need a real top quality defensive minded midfielder for the balance within our squad.

[Tomo 21,681]

33 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

How Tuchel has spoken about Kante fills me with more hope that he will use him properly. 

He's never been better than the 2 title winning seasons for Leicester and us under Conte playing in a 2 man midfield with somebody who will afford him the opportunity to press and hunt the ball. I'm not sure he works as well with Kovacic to be honest who I think also needs to be afforded a similar freedom to his movement, but Jorginho and Gilmour in my opinion are more disciplined in their position in the midfield and can give Kante more freedom to play this way.

On a side note, I still think we need a real top quality defensive minded midfielder for the balance within our squad.

I agree but I also thinking of it personnel wise too. As you've alluded too his direct competitor is Kovacic and the latter just simply doesn't deserve to lose his place right now. Kante simply isn't at the level anymore where he can bypass competition for his place and for now Kova should have the shirt and it be up to Kante to win it back.

Regarding the last point, Tuchel has historically favoured a metronome infront of the back of four with Julian Weigl at BVB then Verrati in Paris.

[Jap Si. 50]

5 hours ago, Tomo said:

Regarding the last point, Tuchel has historically favoured a metronome infront of the back of four with Julian Weigl at BVB then Verrati in Paris.

I am not understanding who is a metronome please.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

6 hours ago, Tomo said:

I agree but I also thinking of it personnel wise too. As you've alluded too his direct competitor is Kovacic and the latter just simply doesn't deserve to lose his place right now. Kante simply isn't at the level anymore where he can bypass competition for his place and for now Kova should have the shirt and it be up to Kante to win it back.

Regarding the last point, Tuchel has historically favoured a metronome infront of the back of four with Julian Weigl at BVB then Verrati in Paris.

Actually, at Paris he actually used Marquinhos a lot as his deepest midfielder, particularly in bigger games and also had Paredes and Danilo Pereira (signed this summer) to play as that deeper midfielder although Paredes is more closer to a metronome yes. Verratti played a bit higher and had a bit more freedom. Weigl at Dortmund was really the only one in that mould he used in that position although I have no idea about what his set up was like at Mainz.

[Magic Lamps 11,444]

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Actually, at Paris he actually used Marquinhos a lot as his deepest midfielder, particularly in bigger games and also had Paredes and Danilo Pereira (signed this summer) to play as that deeper midfielder although Paredes is more closer to a metronome yes. Verratti played a bit higher and had a bit more freedom. Weigl at Dortmund was really the only one in that mould he used in that position although I have no idea about what his set up was like at Mainz.

Yup he usually had a staggered double pivot if you may where the so called metronom would drop deep, almost between the centrebacks to receives the ball. When the opposition tries to press there comes a second dm to break the press and play the ball in the space behind the press.

[Jap Si. 50]

5 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Yup he usually had a staggered double pivot if you may where the so called metronom would drop deep, almost between the centrebacks to receives the ball. When the opposition tries to press there comes a second dm to break the press and play the ball in the space behind the press.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

15 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Yup he usually had a staggered double pivot if you may where the so called metronom would drop deep, almost between the centrebacks to receives the ball. When the opposition tries to press there comes a second dm to break the press and play the ball in the space behind the press.

Aye. Still think he preferred Verratti higher up though, probably why he bought Paredes and got Danilo Perreira as they are very comfortable in possession, capable of moving the ball into the opposition half from the defence.

Edited February 11, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[bigbluewillie 1,805]

On 07/02/2021 at 21:40, Tomo said:

The most pleasing thing so far is he isn't shoehorning Kante back in.

Really?

I wonder where he got that info? bollocks absolute bollocks

[NikkiCFC 7,561]

“I would like to come and work with you, but I can’t do it for four months. I’m not an interim coach. To the media and players you would be the ‘four-month manager’, a lame duck, from day one.”

 

“If you watch Chelsea now you see a mutual plan for when they have the ball or the other team have the ball. Thomas is tactically on a very sophisticated level.

“Zsolt Low was my player and assistant coach at Leipzig and plays a vital role in his staff and you can see from the way he interacts with players Thomas also has great leadership skills. Appointing him was a top solution. I can only congratulate Thomas and Chelsea for the choice.”

-Ralf Rangnick; source: Times via Metro

So club wanted interim. I wonder what was the thinking behind that? Who would they go for in the summer?

Edited February 14, 2021 by NikkiCFC

[Jase 43,479]

12 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

“I would like to come and work with you, but I can’t do it for four months. I’m not an interim coach. To the media and players you would be the ‘four-month manager’, a lame duck, from day one.”

 

“If you watch Chelsea now you see a mutual plan for when they have the ball or the other team have the ball. Thomas is tactically on a very sophisticated level.

“Zsolt Low was my player and assistant coach at Leipzig and plays a vital role in his staff and you can see from the way he interacts with players Thomas also has great leadership skills. Appointing him was a top solution. I can only congratulate Thomas and Chelsea for the choice.”

-Ralf Rangnick; source: Times via Metro

So club wanted interim. I wonder what was the thinking behind that? Who would they go for in the summer?

Not sure how the events unfolded but there were reports that Tuchel didn't want to take over because it's in the middle of the season and all that before he changed his mind and took the job. Maybe the club went for Rangnick when Tuchel wasn't too keen initially? The club were also eyeing Nagelsmann, who of course wasn't going to leave Leipzig in the middle of the season. Had Tuchel not wanted the job, The club probably then thought best to hire an interim and go for Nagelsmann in the summer. Tuchel was also reportedly Marina's choice. 

And on Rangnick's comment about us now having a mutual plan, there are still people out there who think there isn't much difference between how we play under Tuchel and how we played under Lampard. It's stupidly scary.

[Beigl 1,387]

9 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

“I would like to come and work with you, but I can’t do it for four months. I’m not an interim coach. To the media and players you would be the ‘four-month manager’, a lame duck, from day one.”

 

“If you watch Chelsea now you see a mutual plan for when they have the ball or the other team have the ball. Thomas is tactically on a very sophisticated level.

“Zsolt Low was my player and assistant coach at Leipzig and plays a vital role in his staff and you can see from the way he interacts with players Thomas also has great leadership skills. Appointing him was a top solution. I can only congratulate Thomas and Chelsea for the choice.”

-Ralf Rangnick; source: Times via Metro

So club wanted interim. I wonder what was the thinking behind that? Who would they go for in the summer?

I suppose Abramovich wanted Nagelsmann initially. 

[Jase 43,479]

Since Nagelsmann was mentioned, thought I'd just share this here...

Julian Nagelsmann exclusive interview: Inside the mind of Europe's brightest young manager

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/02/15/julian-nagelsmann-exclusive-interview-inside-mind-europes-brightest/

Julian Nagelsmann laughs as he admits that he is quite an “emotional” character. So emotional, in fact, that he has been known to cry when a player makes his debut.

“There were tears in his eyes and also mine,” Nagelsmann says as he recalls the day, for example, when midfielder Dennis Geiger – who he had coached for six years starting through the youth ranks at Hoffenheim – played for the first-team under him.

“It can be very emotional to develop young guys and put them in the right direction,” he explains. “I love it. I love it when they are players for the youth team and then for the first time in their lives they play in a professional game. They go onto the pitch and they have tears in their eyes and when the referee whistles and the game is over sometimes they touch my heart and say ‘thank you so much for this big chance’. I love it.”

Nagelsmann knows his own relative youth still remains a talking point. “When you are a manager in the Bundesliga or Champions League and you are only 33 years old it’s special,” he says. “So it’s normal that people talk about my age. For my work, for the players it has never been a problem and will not be in the future. If I was a guy in the media and there was a manager who was only 28 (when he took over Hoffenheim) I would talk about his age as well.”

The head coach of RB Leipzig - who face a wounded Liverpool in the last-16 of the Champions League – is also, however, the hottest young manager in world football. All the leading European clubs are monitoring his progress as his career continues to impress; having led Leipzig to the semi-finals of the Champions League last season and developing them into genuine, attractive Bundesliga title challengers to Bayern Munich.

Nagelsmann also, of course, oversaw Manchester United’s elimination from this season’s competition, qualifying along with Paris Saint-Germain from the group stages, and knocked out Tottenham Hotspur in the last campaign. He did so with a desire to “entertain” even if – he stresses – “winning is what matters and winning is entertaining” before adding: “I never want to change my offensive and attacking football because I love it and I love it when the fans have an emotional time in the stadium. So I will not change this. But if there is a time when I cannot win like this then I will have to change.”

In perfect English on a Zoom call Nagelsmann can talk at length, and passionately, about innovation, data, technical aspects of the game and tactics: from counter-pressing to what he terms “deep pressing” to the use of the giant (six metres by three metres) “video wall” which he invented at Hoffenheim and is being brought onto the training ground in Leipzig and which allows him to “have the players stay in their positions on the pitch while I explain things tactically by drawing on the screen”.

But it is how Nagelsmann gets inside their heads and works on their “trigger points” that really marks him out. Maybe it is partly because his own playing career, as a centre-back with Augsburg, was cut short so early – aged 20 – when he suffered cruciate ligament damage and then his father, Erwin, died after a short illness later that year. Nagelsmann was reminded that there were far more important things in life than football and had to grow up quickly. But he also wanted to stay in the game and, encouraged by Thomas Tuchel, then the coach of Augsburg II, turned to scouting and coaching.

He rapidly climbed the ladder – coaching at 1860 Munich’s academy, the Under-17s and then Under-19s at Hoffenheim, then the manager’s job where he became the Bundesliga’s youngest-ever coach. Inside a year Nagelsmann took them from a relegation battle to the Champions League, then, in 2019, joined Leipzig having, remarkably, turned down the chance to speak to Real Madrid about taking over there because he understandably believed it was simply too soon.

“I never wanted to lose that time as a player but it helped develop my character. It’s left behind now and it’s no problem for me,” he explains. “In the end my playing career would not have been as big as my career as a manager. I was a talented guy but I couldn’t imagine I would win a title as a player. Now I imagine I can do it as a manager and I am going in the right direction.”

Nagelsmann still plays football but only in seven-a-side matches between the backroom staff at the Red Bull Academy next to Leipzig’s stadium. “I want to win every game – soccer, tennis, it doesn’t matter,” he says. “When I play I am very loud. I am very emotional. If there were spectators they would think we were playing for the Champions League title and not just a game between the coaches.”

Loud? Emotional? Expressive? A powerful bond with his players? A commitment to high-energy attacking football? Pressing the opposition? There are clearly similarities between him and the Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp beyond their nationality. “It’s always a little bit two managers against each other,” Nagelsmann said as he anticipates Tuesday’s first leg which, because of coronavirus restrictions, takes place in Budapest. Given all the games are behind closed doors he is not worried about the apparent loss of home advantage. “I am happy that we can do our job,” he says.

Nagelsmann has already analysed all of Liverpool’s games over the past five weeks – and several from the start of the campaign. “It is like drawing a picture,” he says of how he prepares his team. “And I hope that I will find the right information so that we can win. For example six or seven years ago Jurgen said in an interview that counter-pressing was his No 10 so it’s a big focus for Liverpool and we have to be aware of these situations.”

Tactics matter. But Nagelsmann also talks about how tactics only make up “30 per cent” of coaching success. The rest? “Man-managing,” he says. “Sometimes it changes a little bit, sometimes you have guys who want to learn every day about tactics but in the end the man-management and relationships with the players are more important.”

With that in mind there are, he argues, advantages to being a similar age to the players. “I know the ideas and I know the trigger points of my players. I know their language and sometimes the language of young guys is special, it’s not like older guys,” Nagelsmann says before explaining what he means by “trigger points”.

“They are different. They depend on their characters. Some just want to have success, some just want to earn money, some want to be the special person in the dressing room, some want to talk to you as a manager every day and want to know your ideas. It depends on their character,” he continues, before detailing how he finds them out.

“Sometimes it’s just by talking but there are also tests where the players have to answer different questions and you figure out the potential trigger points. Sometimes there is not just one trigger point. In general I think there are five or six trigger points for everybody and two or three are more important than the others.”

Leipzig have a team of experts to test the players but Nagelsmann is also heavily involved. “I have to learn as well and spent two semesters studying each part of the human being,” he explains. “There’s nothing special about us (Leipzig),” he says before adding: “But we are at the top of being one of the most innovative clubs in Europe.”

His biggest challenge as a manager is dealing with the “25 different personalities” in a squad. “And all these players have big aims and want to be among the most successful players in the world,” Nagelsmann explains. “They are focussed on themselves and that is important and it’s normal. But having to deal with all these different personalities and to put them in the right direction as a team is the most difficult part of my job. But then if you are successful it’s a little easier.

Nagelsmann is emphatic that being a good coach is also about helping players become good people. “Professional soccer is not that easy for young guys, there are many challenging moments – on and off the pitch – so if you want to develop good players you have to develop their personalities,” he says. “It’s 50/50. If they are a good player and a bad character they will not have a big impact.”

Unsurprisingly, as many forward-thinking coaches do, Nagelsmann draws on other sports – handball and ice-hockey - and is open-minded to ideas. His current interest is the NFL and whether he can adapt a similar complex approach to set-pieces. “I think the playbook in American football would be a very good idea for soccer,” Nagelsmann adds, while he is also well-known for pursuing outside interests – whether that is skateboarding to work, snowboarding, skiing, paragliding or mountain biking.

He has, he admits, a lot of energy although Nagelsmann has also spoken about his dream of one day becoming a mountain guide in the Alps. “I am a young guy and there are other things I love to do in my life and after I do those things I am totally focussed when I go back on the pitch,” he says.

Nagelsmann knows the attention is on him. So will we ever see him follow Klopp and Tuchel and Pep Guardiola – who he stays in contact with regularly - and join a Premier League club? After all, for such an expressive coach it helps that he already speaks English?

“I have a contract now until 2023 so I think I will stay in Leipzig,” Nagelsmann says, knowing time is on his side. “The Premier League is a very interesting league and I can imagine it could be a big aim to be a big manager in the Premier League one day like Jurgen who is very successful. It could be a step in the future.

“But, you know, in soccer it’s not that easy to plan ‘how long will you be a manager in Leipzig? When will you go to the Premier League?’ I could imagine going to the Premier League. I could imagine staying as a manager in the Bundesliga for my whole career. It’s cool to be a manager in my own country. I love it. But then perhaps in the future we can meet face-to-face in the Premier League, who knows.”

[killer1257 3,282]

I guess when our pre season starts, we will see what his long term project is and we will see if he is able to bring out of form players like Pulisic or Kai for example into their best form. Currently, Pulisic is maybe the worst player in our squad, which is hard to believe because he was our best or second best player last season 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

I guess when our pre season starts, we will see what his long term project is and we will see if he is able to bring out of form players like Pulisic or Kai for example into their best form. Currently, Pulisic is maybe the worst player in our squad, which is hard to believe because he was our best or second best player last season 

Thoughts on Lampard's sacking? 👀