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People are criticizing him for double-subbing CHO, but i actually like Tuchel even more after this – it shows he has ideas, flexibility, balls and bravery to do something like this and he accepts no BS for it. That's something we lacked for 3 years, with Sarri and Lampard being death-afraid to change anything, not even mentioning changing something that clearly didn't work during the match.

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Took us from 10th to finishing 4th. This has to be credited. Yes, we lost the final game but he gave us the chance to fight for the top 4 after that Lampard fiasco. And we did it. With luck. Again. Ju

A manager taking responsibility? Preposterous!

I tell you what, it you're so convinced this season is going to be shit, would you be willing to put your money where your mouth is? If we finish outside the top four I'll donate £200 to the foru

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33 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

People are criticizing him for double-subbing CHO, but i actually like Tuchel even more after this – it shows he has ideas, flexibility, balls and bravery to do something like this and he accepts no BS for it. That's something we lacked for 3 years, with Sarri and Lampard being death-afraid to change anything, not even mentioning changing something that clearly didn't work during the match.

Honestly, was CHO the worse player out there? I don't think he was. Also, did his subs actually work? They did not. Ziyech would have been more effectitve with CHO on the pitch imo. Also with Lamps I disagree with that.. He hooked off Werner at H/T against Arsenal and last season at Emirates made changes in the first half when things clearly weren't working and also changed formation.

Yeah it is good to see TT change things but I don't like this idea that people make it sound as if Lamps did not do any of this.

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56 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

People are criticizing him for double-subbing CHO, but i actually like Tuchel even more after this – it shows he has ideas, flexibility, balls and bravery to do something like this and he accepts no BS for it. That's something we lacked for 3 years, with Sarri and Lampard being death-afraid to change anything, not even mentioning changing something that clearly didn't work during the match.

I don't think it shows balls and bravery to sub off CHO. Tuchel would never have done that to Giroud or Werner. He can do that to youth players, but he would very like not do that to the established players. 

He could have subbed off Alonso or Werner. But he went for the small guy CHO instead 

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I think our Saints setup was first of all too defensive. After that there were some players that were clearly awful and should've gone out before 65'.

I can't understand leaving Alonso on the pitch. CHO was not so good, but if he maybe tried him at LWB it would give him needed kick and more space to get in the game. Also, switching to 4-2-3-1 would not be crazy too - bring Chilly for Alonso and bring Ziyech (on right wing) for James/Azpi, switch CHO to left wing. Alonso was just plain terrible. Zouma would be better in 4-2-3-1 too, and with Kante in the team, why not?

If he decided to stay with 3-4-3, why not Jorginho instead of Kante at 60'? I mean, Kova wasn't at his best, but if you pair him with J5, that could be completely different story.

Edited by El P.
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19 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I don't think it shows balls and bravery to sub off CHO. Tuchel would never have done that to Giroud or Werner. He can do that to youth players, but he would very like not do that to the established players. 

He could have subbed off Alonso or Werner. But he went for the small guy CHO instead 

But Tuchel also went for one of the players who have benefitted most from the managerial change. CHO may not be an established player yet but he is clearly liked by Tuchel.

This whole subbing a sub thing wasn't pretty and it generated stupid headlines on us again (never a dull moment with us) but there's no point going back and forth on this until we see what happens in the next few games. As humiliating it is to sub a sub, Tuchel isn't the first manager to complain about CHO's lack of effort etc. If this gives CHO a kick up the arse and he goes on to perform, people would probably calling this a genius move from Tuchel. If not, then, it's fair to go back criticizing Tuchel on this. 

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

But Tuchel also went for one of the players who have benefitted most from the managerial change. CHO may not be an established player yet but he is clearly liked by Tuchel.

This whole subbing a sub thing wasn't pretty and it generated stupid headlines on us again (never a dull moment with us) but there's no point going back and forth on this until we see what happens in the next few games. As humiliating it is to sub a sub, Tuchel isn't the first manager to complain about CHO's lack of effort etc. If this gives CHO a kick up the arse and he goes on to perform, people would probably calling this a genius move from Tuchel. If not, then, it's fair to go back criticizing Tuchel on this. 

The question for me is if CHO really lacked effort and did not run as much as he should have done for instance or did he just take the wrong decisions  for example? 

Because lack of effort means for me that he did not run as much as he should have done. Was that really the case? 

Tuchel plays CHO as a right no. 10 or right wing back. For me, he is a LW. Tuchel also played Pulisic as a left wingback. I don't think Tuchel will get the best out of both with that kind of formation anyway. 

 

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6 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

The question for me is if CHO really lacked effort and did not run as much as he should have done for instance or did he just take the wrong decisions  for example? 

Because lack of effort means for me that he did not run as much as he should have done. Was that really the case? 

Did we see him running around, pressing and trying to create chances like Mount for instance? Don't think so and below are some of CHO's numbers:

Completed passes - 7
Passing accuracy in opponents' half - 63.6%
Unsuccessful crosses - 1
Chances created - 0
Offsides - 1
Tackles - 1

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56 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I don't think it shows balls and bravery to sub off CHO. Tuchel would never have done that to Giroud or Werner. He can do that to youth players, but he would very like not do that to the established players. 

He could have subbed off Alonso or Werner. But he went for the small guy CHO instead 

Yeah, still manager's job is man-management and this may be a public lesson for CHO. All the time we hear this team is hard to motivate and acting like a stars, so maybe it's finally someone to make a call for CHO that after his Bayern BS and all other toxic stuff he has to work double for his high contract, as being good in 5 matches and riding on wonderkid's reputation is not enough. And a psychological tactic that may or not work with young players who are over their heads may not actually work for Werner's or Oli issues. We don't know what's going on in this team, so as someone wrote, let's see what comes out if it.

Plus, I don't really get the drama with players being subbed; Yeah, everyone wants to play, but it's a team sport after all. If some element of team needs to be switched, then well, that's life.

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8 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Said it in the match thread, put Werner up front and he becomes what Vardy is to Leicester. You gotta find him early and play quick passes. Otherwise, he's bound to be anonymous. 

Again regarding CHO, people can argue till the cows come home. Until we see the next few games, we won't know what's gonna happen with CHO. Either Tuchel will look like a genius or complete idiot with that sub decision.

Also hypothetically speaking, had Tuchel done what he did to CHO to say, Alonso - subbing him off after bringing him on - would anyone really be complaining about the decision? Or is everyone just outraged because it's CHO and he's young etc? 

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13 minutes ago, Fernando said:

The beginning of the end for Tuchel at Chelsea. 

FML! If I want to see overreaction from Chelsea fans, I would just go to Twitter, Facebook or somewhere else. 

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

FML! If I want to see overreaction from Chelsea fans, I would just go to Twitter, Facebook or somewhere else. 

 

It is very early, but these are not the things the board wants to hear. The board thinks we have this world class squad, which I wholeheartedly disagree with. I think our squad is average at best. Tuchel like any coach can give you a structure and that is it. If the players make individual mistakes, it is on them. If they miss their chances, it is on them. But at Chelsea, it is always the coaches fault. That is probably the reason why Alonso and Toni are still our players lol. It took so many years for us to get rid of Willian. Finally he is gone and Arsenal think he is a rubbish player and we did some kind of fraud to them. Chelsea fans always knew that. The board somehow rated him. 

 

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7 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

 

It is very early, but these are not the things the board wants to hear. The board thinks we have this world class squad, which I wholeheartedly disagree with. I think our squad is average at best. Tuchel like any coach can give you a structure and that is it. If the players make individual mistakes, it is on them. If they miss their chances, it is on them. But at Chelsea, it is always the coaches fault. That is probably the reason why Alonso and Toni are still our players lol. It took so many years for us to get rid of Willian. Finally he is gone and Arsenal think he is a rubbish player and we did some kind of fraud to them. Chelsea fans always knew that. The board somehow rated him. 

Think Fernando's post wasn't about the squad quality. 

I said this in the match thread, people kept trying to make excuses for Lampard after 18 months in charge of the team but are now going basically #TuchelOUT after only 1 month in charge. 

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44 minutes ago, Fernando said:

The beginning of the end for Tuchel at Chelsea. 

What a load of BS. But since you are from America, what do you know about football....I mean Soccer lol

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Seriously some of your get a grip, TT in under no threat and has done a great job so far. Stop making a mountain out of a moll and back the dude. We have become so shortsighted and paranoid.

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3 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Seriously some of your get a grip, TT in under no threat and has done a great job so far. Stop making a mountain out of a moll and back the dude. We have become so shortsighted and paranoid.

It‘s just the frustrated Lampard fannies who can‘t overcome the fact that the club rightly sacked that bad excuse of a coach. The same people wattacking TT after still being unbeaten were defending PE Teacher Lampard who made us play like a shower of shit.

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13 minutes ago, ZaynChelsea said:

What a load of BS. But since you are from America, what do you know about football....I mean Soccer lol

Okay, feel free to disagree etc but let's not overstep the mark and start hurling abuse/insults. 

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Go through squad many players out of form when TT come. Kepa, Pulisic, Kante, Werner, Havertz, Alonso, Zylech, Rudiger, Chilwell, people are expecting it to slot into place straightway are having a joke.

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4 hours ago, ZaynChelsea said:

We didn‘t manage to win against any top half team with Lampard. That‘s disgraceful. TT is still searching his best XI and he will eventually find it. I mean, Lampard couldn‘t find his best XI the whole season. 
We didn‘t lose - we drew. We are in Top 4. TT got a difficult job on his hands - he has to make sure we finish Top 4 at the end of the season. Who put us in this miserable situation in the first place? Yup, Lamps. So why do you expect from Tuchel to do everything right after some weeks when our ‚legend‘ (I refuse to call him that since I don‘t think legends fk off to City) couldn‘t do anything right in years??

Ah that’s it. You are still bitter about the city thing. Chelsea board didn’t want to prolong his contract, which was within their right. So he took the next best paying job, which is perfectly legitimate as well. That doesn’t change the fact that he scored 211 goals for us and captained us to our first ever El and CL titles for starters. If you hate him for that you will have a hard time being a Chelsea fan cos his name is forever connected to our club. 

He is not a good coach sure. But it’s always disgusting to see supposed fans who do not stop at criticising him for being a bad coach and hate on the man himself even after he has long been rightfully sacked. 

Yeah TT is doing an alright job. I don’t like his football, I don’t like his player selection, he is hardly setting the world alight but I like a lot that he is producing results. So, I give him time but I criticize him. Praising him just to make his predecessor look bad is cheap however. 

You seem to be a bit borderline and extreme in your judgements. how you call our greatest ever player a fraud and a guy who has been here a month and hardly produced more  than solid work a tactical genius does seem slightly odd. The world is not all black and white. 

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