Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Henrique said:

Laughing after a 3-1 L. 

I LOL-ed because you said Lampard isn't under pressure and his job is safe when there's already a story from The Athletic on him being on the brink. 

[Costa19 858]

14 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Sarri did best in the last 4 seasons. Won EL, 3rd place and cup final. We had better defense with Kepa, Rudiger, Luiz and Alonso. I think he would do wonders with this squad. 

Yeah i think the same. I wrote about that a couple of weeks ago here on the forum. Would not mind him here 

[Superblue 6,370]

10 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Sarri did best in the last 4 seasons. Won EL, 3rd place and cup final. We had better defense with Kepa, Rudiger, Luiz and Alonso. I think he would do wonders with this squad. 

Not just here, but compared to the first season of Pep at City and Klopp's first full season at Liverpool, he did better than both whilst here.

The problem is he was never afforded the time to get past obvious teething problems that the two above were given. That's not on the board either, I think Sarri would have been retained if it wasn't for the massive backlash the fans gave against him. 

It's my biggest concern with the club that a manager won't be afforded the time needed to imprint their style and blueprint on the team. I think that a more pragmatic manager can put things in place much quicker usually than a progressive manager. But the squad we've been building in the last 3 seasons amongst signings and academy players points to needing a progressive, attacking style to maximise the potential. We're no longer suited to a pragmatic, defensive approach.

[Costa19 858]

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Not just here, but compared to the first season of Pep at City and Klopp's first full season at Liverpool, he did better than both whilst here.

The problem is he was never afforded the time to get past obvious teething problems that the two above were given. That's not on the board either, I think Sarri would have been retained if it wasn't for the massive backlash the fans gave against him. 

It's my biggest concern with the club that a manager won't be afforded the time needed to imprint their style and blueprint on the team. I think that a more pragmatic manager can put things in place much quicker usually than a progressive manager. But the squad we've been building in the last 3 seasons amongst signings and academy players points to needing a progressive, attacking style to maximise the potential. We're no longer suited to a pragmatic, defensive approach.

Agree. And we will never be able to utilize the talent in the squad if a progressive manager doesnt have the backing and time needed from the fans/board.

Thats what i see different with Sarri compared to Lampard. With Sarri he created a "plattform" for us to develop from and to bring in new players that fits that specific "plattform" but as we know.. he never got the time. 
With Lampard i cant even see what he is trying to do nor anything to build from. Thats why i think he will get the sack because its not about him getting some results in the coming games because the real problem is that we doesnt have any "plattform" or basic game to develop..

[Irakozium257 350]

48 minutes ago, Pizy said:

One little thing Frank mentioned in his post match interview is something that's 100% true and nobody is really mentioning it in the media. He quickly explained how comfortable all of City's players are at recieveing the ball in tight areas and dealing with the press. It's something you really notice immedietly when watching the likes of City and Liverpool compared to us. It even really stood out in both legs against Sevilla this year.

Just about every player on those sides are excellent technically and have great first touch. There's a smooth, crisp look to their passing. Meanwhile, we have FAR too many players in our team who are just poor technically. Kante, Zouma, Tammy, Werner, Azpi. And then we have others who do have qualities technically but have next to ZERO offensive output like Kova, Jorginho, Mount.

All of these problems are made worse when we have a novice manager who is clearly not able to fix these issues in training. 

We need a manager who is maniacal at working on intricate technical training. You can tell the likes of Pep and Klopp have worked endlessly  with their players to get them so calm and smooth in their play. 

You mentioned exactly, completely what I've been thinking to myself during the course of this season, even when we were winning against the likes of Burnley & Sheffield.

Elite football has evolved so quickly. If you are a club who has the means, you have to have, for all the positions, players who have an excellent ball technique and everything it entails to, at a minimum, grind out wins against 'smaller sides' over and over again and play confidently against 'big sides' even when you are playing away and are 2 goals behind with 'enough' minutes left. That includes the GK and the CBs. Liverpool/Klopp deservedly won the CL and the PL thanks to this approach, and Guardiola the PL before him.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

This.

We were atrocious against Arsenal after a free week, decent against Villa after just 1 day of rest and then back to being atrocious against Man City after another free week. And that's just an example from this past week alone. There's more if we look back over the course of Lampard's regime. 

This just means that if a team has time to work out the weaknesses of our tactics, we find it hard to win. We don't have tactical plans of our own. 

[milka 3,344]

Football is a cruel game.

Seeing a club legend seemingly almost in tears is hard to take for every single Chelsea fan, regardless of if they’re Lampard in or out but at the end of the day this is a results based business.

[Superblue 6,370]

23 minutes ago, Costa19 said:

Agree. And we will never be able to utilize the talent in the squad if a progressive manager doesnt have the backing and time needed from the fans/board.

Thats what i see different with Sarri compared to Lampard. With Sarri he created a "plattform" for us to develop from and to bring in new players that fits that specific "plattform" but as we know.. he never got the time. 
With Lampard i cant even see what he is trying to do nor anything to build from. Thats why i think he will get the sack because its not about him getting some results in the coming games because the real problem is that we doesnt have any "plattform" or basic game to develop..

Whilst I'd agree with the current style and worrying regression in our play, particularly in recent weeks and that will almost certainly end up being his undoing.

However, I still think for the overall development of this group of players, Lampard has actually been an important appointment and hopefully in the long term his time here will be looked at in a better light because of the rebuild he's done within the squad.

The academy players that have been integrated into the squad over the last 18 months will all play a role at the club over the coming years. Some more than others, but it has significantly strengthened the squad and driven down the average age of the team. 

From what has been reported, Lampard has also played a significant role in attracting players here this summer. Forget some of their struggles currently, our summer recruitments I'm sure will prove to be great buys and it appears that Lampard had a big impact being able to improve the level of player that was in our reach this summer.

[Pizy 18,360]

The only reason I can see Frank surviving a bit longer now is Roman/the board will be looking at what has happened with Arteta and Olé. Both were seemingly on the brink and looking like dead men walking. Now both are flying just weeks later. We were the ones flying when they were both struggling and now it's reversed. They'll probably be telling themselves that  things can change quickly and that maybe they can wait it out.

I think he's got 1 more PL match. Lose against Fulham and he's done.

[Magic Lamps 11,649]

9 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Whilst I'd agree with the current style and worrying regression in our play, particularly in recent weeks and that will almost certainly end up being his undoing.

However, I still think for the overall development of this group of players, Lampard has actually been an important appointment and hopefully in the long term his time here will be looked at in a better light because of the rebuild he's done within the squad.

The academy players that have been integrated into the squad over the last 18 months will all play a role at the club over the coming years. Some more than others, but it has significantly strengthened the squad and driven down the average age of the team. 

From what has been reported, Lampard has also played a significant role in attracting players here this summer. Forget some of their struggles currently, our summer recruitments I'm sure will prove to be great buys and it appears that Lampard had a big impact being able to improve the level of player that was in our reach this summer.

Could not agree more. Have been saying this for quite a while. Lampard had a massive rebuilding job to do and did so quite well. We might not function as a team very well atm but James, Mount, Chilwell, Pulisic, Abraham have made leaps in improvement under him. He has set a precedent for academy players to work for the badge. No other manager in the roman era has managed to inegrate so many so the guys at the academy now at least know for what they playing.

Also as you say, he did a stellar job at recruiting some amazings talents, albeit we might not all be seeing them as such right now. Our squad is set up for the future brilliantly despite a transfer embargo and just 18 months after being in ruins.

[Laylabelle 9,347]

7 minutes ago, Pizy said:

The only reason I can see Frank surviving a bit longer now is Roman/the board will be looking at what has happened with Arteta and Olé. Both were seemingly on the brink and looking like dead men walking. Now both are flying just weeks later. We were the ones flying when they were both struggling and now it's reversed. They'll probably be telling themselves that  things can change quickly and that maybe they can wait it out.

I think he's got 1 more PL match. Lose against Fulham and he's done.

Maybe. Have to see how they come out the next game. Arsenal against us was bam bam bam from the start..if we just look sluggish again..no chance.

I dont think its helping how far back our slide is pushing us. 3 above Arsenal..potentially 10 from 2nd if they win their game. All very quickly. Though with games to play here there and everywhere its hard to see..either was we're in the crap 

[OneMoSalah 8,766]

12 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

However, I still think for the overall development of this group of players, Lampard has actually been an important appointment and hopefully in the long term his time here will be looked at in a better light because of the rebuild he's done within the squad.

Results are ultimately more important than recruitment. You can recruit well but if you don’t get results it ultimately won’t matter. 

If he was sacked tomorrow and this group went on to be successful in a year or a few years down the line, nobody will remember Lampard’s spell in a better light after spending 200m or whatever and having us sitting 8/9th. Behind Everton. Aston Villa. Leicester. Tottenham. Teams we all finished above last season without 200m of players like Timo Werner, Hakim Ziyech, Ben Chilwell, Thiago Silva, Kai Havertz who are all improvements on what we had last season. The last 18 months of his time here there is no clear style, no identity and ultimately no real progress. Only positives results wise was the 2 purple streaks spanning the 20 games in 2 seasons.

[Blue Armour 4,275]

17 minutes ago, Pizy said:

The only reason I can see Frank surviving a bit longer now is Roman/the board will be looking at what has happened with Arteta and Olé. Both were seemingly on the brink and looking like dead men walking. Now both are flying just weeks later. We were the ones flying when they were both struggling and now it's reversed. They'll probably be telling themselves that  things can change quickly and that maybe they can wait it out.

I think he's got 1 more PL match. Lose against Fulham and he's done.

Even if he wins against Fulham, I think a loss against Leicester will be the end of it.

[Jase 43,479]

18 minutes ago, Pizy said:

The only reason I can see Frank surviving a bit longer now is Roman/the board will be looking at what has happened with Arteta and Olé. Both were seemingly on the brink and looking like dead men walking. Now both are flying just weeks later. We were the ones flying when they were both struggling and now it's reversed. They'll probably be telling themselves that  things can change quickly and that maybe they can wait it out.

I think he's got 1 more PL match. Lose against Fulham and he's done.

OR Roman could just look at his track record and see that things can get better after sacking the manager midway through the season. 

[Jase 43,479]

I really don't get why Lampard should be given 1 more league match to see if he can turn things around. The doubts, the issues aren't going to just go away even if we win at Fulham. They are far bigger than the results right now. If Roman really wants to sack him, then he should just do so now.

[Superblue 6,370]

2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Results are ultimately more important than recruitment. You can recruit well but if you don’t get results it ultimately won’t matter. 

If he was sacked tomorrow and this group went on to be successful in a year or a few years down the line, nobody will remember Lampard’s spell in a better light after spending 200m or whatever and having us sitting 8/9th. Behind Everton. Aston Villa. Leicester. Tottenham. Teams we all finished above last season without 200m of players like Timo Werner, Hakim Ziyech, Ben Chilwell, Thiago Silva, Kai Havertz who are all improvements on what we had last season. The last 18 months of his time here there is no clear style, no identity and ultimately no real progress. Only positives results wise was the 2 purple streaks spanning the 20 games in 2 seasons.

Of course results are more important and that's what ultimately will cost Lampard his job.

But you only have to look at the squad he inherited with a transfer ban, Hazard left, RLC and CHO crocked long term, Kante riddled with injuries, and compare that with the squad we have now. 

Lampard will leave us in a better position with regards to the strength of our squad than what he started with. Thiago Silva aside, there were no short term fixes like a Mourinho or Conte would demand, but instead he brought in or through a younger crop of players for the long term good of the club. He's not likely to be here to bear those fruits but I do think in 2-3 years people will have more appreciation over the job he's done rebuilding a pretty stale and ageing squad who had just lost its talisman.

[Jase 43,479]

ZERO win against the 'Big 6' this season:

L 0-2 Liverpool
D 0-0 Man United
D 0-0 Spurs
L 1-3 Arsenal
L 1-3 Man City

Both goals came after being 3-0 down...

[Pizy 18,360]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

I really don't get why Lampard should be given 1 more league match to see if he can turn things around. The doubts, the issues aren't going to just go away even if we win at Fulham. They are far bigger than the results right now. If Roman really wants to sack him, then he should just do so now.

Unless Tuchel has already been told to prepare, it may just be a matter of timing. Sack him now and the replacement may not be ready. With the FA Cup match in between the club have a bit of time to sort things out.