The Mourinho Thread

[GodZola 630]

Noboby,and I mean nobody,would have critiziced Mourinho for giving just one youth player a chance against Maribor.That match was the most useless match I have ever seen.RLC for Matic would have made sense.

Actually, we hadn't qualified & no where near it so there was no chance of giving starts to youth against Maribor, it would make no sense at all, apart from when the game was won, remember we only drew at their place?!

The ideal time would of been the dead rubber against Sporting - we had already qualified as group leaders so opportunities should of been given in this match, if in any this season.

Tbh honest Madrid are not my concern, however i can understand the concern, José has already stated that there is no point in a 6m academy if we don't start producing, nonetheless winning trophies is what we all want at the end of the day and this is an ideal place to start (José second era) and I have complete faith in José to start using our youth products when they are ready, we might as u say see a few in the FA cup but I would be surprised, my view is that we will see some getting their opportunities next season, if not then perhaps do as José as said and scrap the academy!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Noboby,and I mean nobody,would have critiziced Mourinho for giving just one youth player a chance against Maribor.That match was the most useless match I have ever seen.RLC for Matic would have made sense.

The same Maribor we drew against?

[lionsden 4,689]

All this could have been avoided had jose not made a ceremony and big deal out handing rlc his debut only to give him 8 minutes in a meaningless game. It reopened the debate about his and the club's record with youth development. That pre match press conf and post match interview, a clear PR stunt, were so cringeworthy, it motivated gary neville to write a fantastic article about youth development.

[killer1257 3,282]

The same Maribor we drew against?

Sorry,I meant Sporting lisbon

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Can I just say, this has been quite an interesting & civilised debate.. Nice to see TC is capable of it

[The Skipper 20,609]

I'm sorry, but where is exactly is the reasoning for this coming from? You're using this as fact when it is far from it.

Last night, we something very close to our best XI (only Mikel was arguably one of the 'fringe' players after Zouma was subbed off as Luis and Drogba are very much regulars) and we were looking in trouble until the ref decided to wrongly send off a Derby player.

Yes, we managed the game well and made it look fairly comfortable most of the times but that was a close game. Derby played very well and made it difficult for us, as we all knew they would. How exactly do you conclude that we would still have won had a couple of first-teamers been replaced by inexperience youth players?

For me, the way the game panned out and level at which Derby played only confirms that Jose was 100% right to start a very strong team.

I am one who always voices an opinion on the lack of opportunites for the young ones and I stated that RLC should have been given more minutes against Sporting and the likes of Baker should have played against Shrewsbury etc. But yesterday was not the one. Going into an away game against arguably the best team in the Championship who are playing their best team, there is always a chance of a giant-killing. If were at home then possibly more reason but this is the QF stage and we are serious about winning it. Boga and RLC are top talents but they have never started a competitive fixture before. To throw them into an 11 against a team like Derby is very risky. You understood why RLC did not start the game against Sporting etc but for this game you are surprised that he did not play any of the youngsters. Sporting Lisbon if anything would have been the best game to start the likes of RLC and Boga. A game where only pride was at stake and we were at home.

Going to Derby is not the ideal place to just throw around 3 youngsters in the first team. Ake less so because he has more first team experience however he has just recovering an inury but Derby is a very tough game. Although the COC is not the most prestigious trophy, with where we are now and considering the teams left in the competition I and everyone else I assume would be quite annoyed if we did not go on and win it considering the last time we won the trophy was in 2007. If we played 3 youngsters in the starting 11 and we went out we would be regretting that if we played a stronger team we might have just gone through. You can see while we deserved it yesterday, it was no easy game despite a very strong 11 out there.

I wasn't only talking about the Derby game to be honest, it was more of a general statement to reflect the opportunities that could've been given to them over the course of the season, should've made that a bit clearer.

You can't tell me a side like this (for example) don't have the capabilities to beat the likes of Derby:

Cech

Azpi - Zouma - JT - Luis

Matic - RLC

Fabregas

Boga - Drogba - Hazard

These kids are talented, yes they aren't experienced and yes it's a risk but when playing these youths that's what you have to expect. It's a risk-reward thing. So what if the Derby game was pretty tough? Isn't that why we surround these youngsters with plenty of experience? If we can't trust these in a situation like Derby in the COC QF or even a dead rubber match like the Sporting one, when will we ever trust them? How will they ever get 'that' experience? You can't tell me for certain that someone like Boga would've definitely performed more negatively than Schurrle who was pretty awful apart from his goal.

@ CHOULO19 - how exactly have you concluded that if we played an XI similar to the one above that we definitely would've lost against Derby? I'm not buying it sorry. The integration from the academy this season has been very poor and could've been a lot better, it's my only real gripe with Jose this season. I understand that he's a winner and that he wants to win it all but giving the likes of RLC and Boga, who are extremely talented, a chance whilst trying to achieve that shouldn't be too difficult IMO.

[The Skipper 20,609]

The only reason the likes of LvG and Wenger promote youth is because either the rest of their squad is injured, or the rest of their squad is shit. Would Wilson, McNair, Blackett and company play if all of their regular first-teamers were fit? Not a chance in hell. Wilson possibly, but that kid has a big future ahead of him.

Explain why LvG started Wilson, in a massive PREMIER LEAGUE match against Liverpool, ahead of a fit Falcao? That would never happen here, even though we have bigger talents. LvG has just been in his job for a few months and is already showing confidence in some youth players, showing them if the seniors aren't performing that they'll have a chance.

But that won't happen here, not even in a dead rubber match like the Sporting game or Derby in the COC.

[Shane 2,275]

I wasn't only talking about the Derby game to be honest, it was more of a general statement to reflect the opportunities that could've been given to them over the course of the season, should've made that a bit clearer.

You can't tell me a side like this (for example) don't have the capabilities to beat the likes of Derby:

Cech

Azpi - Zouma - JT - Luis

Matic - RLC

Fabregas

Boga - Drogba - Hazard

These kids are talented, yes they aren't experienced and yes it's a risk but when playing these youths that's what you have to expect. It's a risk-reward thing. So what if the Derby game was pretty tough? Isn't that why we surround these youngsters with plenty of experience? If we can't trust these in a situation like Derby in the COC QF or even w dead rubber match like the Sporting one, when will we ever trust them? How will they ever get 'that' experience? You can't tell me for certain that someone like Boga would've definitely performed more negatively than Schurrle who was pretty awful apart from his goal.

@ CHOULO19 - how exactly have you concluded that if we played an XI similar to the one above that we definitely would've lost against Derby? I'm not buying it sorry. The integration from the academy this season has been very poor and could've been a lot better, it's my only real gripe with Jose this season. I understand that he's a winner and that he wants to win it all but giving the likes of RLC and Boga, who are extremely talented, a chance whilst trying to achieve that shouldn't be too difficult IMO.

Because Mikel and Schurrle would have been outraged that in one of the few chances they get to start and put in a claim that young players that don't train with the first team squad and are playing regular football with the U21s and Youth sides. Granted its at a lower level but its still more then our fringe players get.

We need these players to be playing well and ready to come in if needed. Not feeling like they'll never break into the team or play.

[Laylabelle 9,539]

Dont see why.May be seen as a risk but its a risk that may pay off.Some of our first team players have had dodgy performances so nothing wrong with given them a chance.Can be subbed and with a chance to prove themselves see how works under pressure,Especially with the games bulding up.

Man U doing well from it and ok we arent them but they're winning games all the same.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Because Mikel and Schurrle would have been outraged that in one of the few chances they get to start and put in a claim that young players that don't train with the first team squad and are playing regular football with the U21s and Youth sides. Granted its at a lower level but its still more then our fringe players get.

We need these players to be playing well and ready to come in if needed. Not feeling like they'll never break into the team or play.

Outraged? Really? Do you think if Jose took Mikel and Schurrle to the side and said "listen lads, today I want to give Boga and RLC a chance today in our cup game, I want you two to sit out/be ready if you're needed", that they would've been outraged? Mikel has played quite a lot over the last two weeks, Schurrle has been in and out too. It's one game. Schurrle and Mikel will have plenty of more game time to get into form and get minutes. Not buying it sorry.

[stroey 2,525]

Explain why LvG started Wilson, in a massive PREMIER LEAGUE match against Liverpool, ahead of a fit Falcao? That would never happen here, even though we have bigger talents. LvG has just been in his job for a few months and is already showing confidence in some youth players, showing them if the seniors aren't performing that they'll have a chance.

But that won't happen here, not even in a dead rubber match like the Sporting game or Derby in the COC.

Lvg recently said Falcao can only play 20 minutes per game (not sure if he's fully recovered), maybe that's why he started Wilson.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I wasn't only talking about the Derby game to be honest, it was more of a general statement to reflect the opportunities that could've been given to them over the course of the season, should've made that a bit clearer.

You can't tell me a side like this (for example) don't have the capabilities to beat the likes of Derby:

Cech

Azpi - Zouma - JT - Luis

Matic - RLC

Fabregas

Boga - Drogba - Hazard

These kids are talented, yes they aren't experienced and yes it's a risk but when playing these youths that's what you have to expect. It's a risk-reward thing. So what if the Derby game was pretty tough? Isn't that why we surround these youngsters with plenty of experience? If we can't trust these in a situation like Derby in the COC QF or even a dead rubber match like the Sporting one, when will we ever trust them? How will they ever get 'that' experience? You can't tell me for certain that someone like Boga would've definitely performed more negatively than Schurrle who was pretty awful apart from his goal.

@ CHOULO19 - how exactly have you concluded that if we played an XI similar to the one above that we definitely would've lost against Derby? I'm not buying it sorry. The integration from the academy this season has been very poor and could've been a lot better, it's my only real gripe with Jose this season. I understand that he's a winner and that he wants to win it all but giving the likes of RLC and Boga, who are extremely talented, a chance whilst trying to achieve that shouldn't be too difficult IMO.

Of course they have the capability of beating Derby and similarly Derby have the capabilities of winning as well. No one said they would have definitely lost but from what we knew about Derby and the match I think they would have severely damaged our likelihood of winning the match and I think that was proved by the performances yesterday.

And, please, don't tell me that you seriously believe that Boga can perform as well as Schurrle in any circumstance! That's just ridiculous over-hyping that ends up only hurting the players themselves like what happened with Chalobah.

No one from our academy currently is even remotely close to first team quality. Zouma is the only youngster close and you can make a case for Ake but he's unfortunately been injured in the period where he might have been given a couple of chances. Everyone else, from RLC to Boga, Baker, Swift, Christensen....etc. even if they were given more time this season they are still going to have to go on loan and prove themselves before they could become part of the first team. Anyone who thinks differently is just deluding themselves, imho.

[Shane 2,275]

Outraged? Really? Do you think if Jose took Mikel and Schurrle to the side and said "listen lads, today I want to give Boga and RLC a chance today in our cup game, I want you two to sit out/be ready if you're needed", that they would've been outraged? Mikel has played quite a lot over the last two weeks, Schurrle has been in and out too. It's one game. Schurrle and Mikel will have plenty of more game time to get into form and get minutes. Not buying it sorry.

I just think this season its the right thing to do. We're chasing to win everything we can so we want to win everything and keep the momentum going. Keeping everyone in the main squad happy so the squad players will accept not starting and have the right mentality to be ready to come in and do the job when needed, later on in the season when the big games start I really feel we'll be in a better position for it.

Hopefully RLC will get his Premiership debut before the season is out because physically he looks ready. Would love to see Bamford in the squad next season if Drogba retires.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Lvg recently said Falcao can only play 20 minutes per game (not sure if he's fully recovered), maybe that's why he started Wilson.

He said that a week or so before the Liverpool game. Falcao could've started easily.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I just think this season its the right thing to do. We're chasing to win everything we can so we want to win everything and keep the momentum going. Keeping everyone in the main squad happy so the squad players will accept not starting and have the right mentality to be ready to come in and do the job when needed, later on in the season when the big games start I really feel we'll be in a better position for it.

Hopefully RLC will get his Premiership debut before the season is out because physically he looks ready. Would love to see Bamford in the squad next season if Drogba retires.

This is my argument though... How is putting RLC or Boga into any team automatically going to kill our momentum? It's a myth. Using a game or two to give a small amount of the academy lads a go is hardly going to disrupt our whole season is it now? Do you seriously believe such?

[Shane 2,275]

This is my argument though... How is putting RLC or Boga into any team automatically going to kill our momentum? It's a myth. Using a game or two to give a small amount of the academy lads a go is hardly going to disrupt our whole season is it now? Do you seriously believe such?

Sweet jesus. This is going around in circles. I'm done. Agree to Disagree and all that.

[Laylabelle 9,539]

If anything fresh energy spur it on.Not point having a academy if its not going to be used.Just seems a case of players on loan and rarely coming back.Understand theres pressure but starting with them or having on for 20 mins wont do harm.Can only gain experience through having a go

[The Skipper 20,609]

Of course they have the capability of beating Derby and similarly Derby have the capabilities of winning as well. No one said they would have definitely lost but from what we knew about Derby and the match I think they would have severely damaged our likelihood of winning the match and I think that was proved by the performances yesterday.

So you honestly think playing RLC or Boga would severely damage our likelihood of winning against a team like Derby? Incredible.

And, please, don't tell me that you seriously believe that Boga can perform as well as Schurrle in any circumstance! That's just ridiculous over-hyping that ends up only hurting the players themselves like what happened with Chalobah.

You're telling me that Boga definitely can't put in a better performance than the one Schurrle gave us yesterday? Incredible yet again.

No one from our academy currently is even remotely close to first team quality. Zouma is the only youngster close and you can make a case for Ake but he's unfortunately been injured in the period where he might have been given a couple of chances. Everyone else, from RLC to Boga, Baker, Swift, Christensen....etc. even if they were given more time this season they are still going to have to go on loan and prove themselves before they could become part of the first team. Anyone who thinks differently is just deluding themselves, imho.

Well here's where the discussion ends then. You clearly think that someone like Boga or RLC aren't anywhere near quality enough to even contribute to the team in any sort of game we'll play this season, whilst I think that is absolute rubbish and that they are definitely more than talented enough to do exactly that. Each to their own though I guess. We'll agree to disagree.

PS - I have never really counted Zouma as a youngster. He was bought for £12m.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So you honestly think playing RLC or Boga would severely damage our likelihood of winning against a team like Derby? Incredible.

You're telling me that Boga definitely can't put in a better performance than the one Schurrle have us yesterday? Incredible yet again.

Well here's where the discussion ends then. You clearly think that someone like Boga or RLC aren't anywhere near quality enough to even contribute to the team in any sort of game we'll play this season, whilst I think that is absolute rubbish and that they are definitely more than talented enough to do exactly that. Each to their own though I guess. We'll agree to disagree.

PS - I have never really counted Zouma as a youngster.

Yes, yes, and yes. It's actually very clear to me but like you said, it's a matter of opinion. But if you're looking to why Jose and the coaching staff have not lived up to your expectations on youth integration I think this would be one of the main candidates for the possible explanations. Jose probably views the like of Boga and RLC like I view them. Go back to his interviews, ever time he talks about them he says something along the lines of "very promising but very far from ready" while he says that Zouma is first team quality and Ake very nearly there.

[Special Juan 28,187]

For me it's one word...'Integration'

I can 100% see why they haven't been given the so called limelight debut in a full capacity, but in the same breath it's like nurturing a flower to grow but then allowing it to blossom in full sun light. Games like Schalke away are good examples where games are dead at one certain point and that's the point they should be shown the field and I think this is the main point. There is massive emphasis on this group and club to produce something this season and right now it's looking very good, but there is also a point where there will be games where players like Ake and Boga can be integrated onto the bench and given the chance in the last 15-20 minutes.

The frustrating thing from my point of view is seeing games dead, and then fetching on say Schurrle, when the option of young blood can then be brought on.