The Mourinho Thread

[Rmpr 8,977]

The overreactions about people overreacting have become bigger than the overreactions themselves!

[The only place to be 11,313]

And as other members have said its showing in our performances,with some of the players we brought looking rather subdued and confused on what they are suppose to do,

Could be said about the other two teams with new managers. New systems take time.

The overreactions about people overreacting have become bigger than the overreactions themselves!

Actually funny.

[borriske 330]

The overreactions about people overreacting have become bigger than the overreactions themselves!

Disagree, you're clearly overreacting here

[Strike 6,989]

Are you serious? I mean transition doesn't mean lack of titles, just a phase between two places. This is not an excuse for the lack of titles (why we're talking about titles in November is beyond me, but okay). Of course we have a shot this year, so does Arsenal, ManCity and who knows maybe even ManUtd and Liverpool. And so does Bayern, Barcelona, RM, Dortmund among others in Europe. Transition isn't an excuse for not winning, it's just addressing the obvious no matter how in denial people can be. Mourinho was hired to deliver a job: create a football identity to this club, not only this team. He's been saying he'll chase titles the best he can while he does that, but his boss asked him something very clear, something his boss thinks the club can now work with: a style of football that will be a legacy. Of course there will be pressure to win, but I'm sure when Roman looks to the last few years when we won nearly randomly and he knows it can't get worse than that. He looks back and to when we don't win the national league or even fight for it since 2010, when we were underdogs winning UCL and struggled with weak sides to win a second tier european title and he thinks, if we're going to win things without ever being real contenders, I better at least invest into making Chelsea a powerhouse in football. It's not like we've been top dogs in England or Europe lately...

Are they any doubts Roman is a smart man? You don't build an empire like he did if you aren't. He bought a club and the titles came, so he proved this team can be big in terms of title. Then he looked at teams like Bayern and Barcelona and studied their recent history to know or learn how they reached the level they're now. Barcelona isn't the biggest team in Spain and a few titles in the 2000's didn't turn them into that. RM is by a fair lead the biggest team in that country, but Barça are closing the gap. They were in a much inferior position and now they're fighting to prove they can the biggest team in history in Spain. Roman looked at how a team that while always had history never came close to be a powerhouse like Madrid, worked around and became the biggest team this century in that country. He saw a legacy being passed from manager to manager, as players came and left. Then he looked at Bayern and saw the same (except Bayern bought their way into greatness in the 70's, something very similar to what Chelsea did with Roman now in the 2000's). But he saw a philosophy that took years to be built. Last year I remember reading an interview from Bayern's president (forgot his name) where he said he looked at Barcelona and decided to copy their model (he didn't say it as straight as that, but he did say he looked at them and if I remember correctly he even said he went to Barcelona and talked to their president about the philosophy there). He decided to replicate it at Bayern and he paid the price. The team - even when facing lesser title contenders in Bundesliga - struggled and lost and I'll tell they're not done yet, they didn't reach their final goal yet. The fact that until Dortmund became a real contender, Bayern still struggled to win (and lost) titles in the Bundesliga when they had much more money should be taken into consideration. They paid a price and now they're collecting the results of a long term project.

I assume based on everything we read Roman decided to do the same. We already won every title (of importance) that was there to win, we don't have to prove anything to anyone, but we could take it to the next level and that's what they're trying. Mourinho won't be fired because of results and lack of titles, he will be fired if he shows Roman he's the wrong man to create an identity, to deal with those still young eggs and their limitations and fragility. Maybe Mourinho is the wrong man to the job, I'm not saying he's the right man, but then he's wrong for creating an identity and that can only be measured a couple of years down the road, not a couple of months. He'll be fired and proved the wrong man to the job when it's possible to evaluate his job and the message is clear, the job is to create a legacy, not to win titles off the bat as we did for years now, struggling a lot, being completely inconsistent (such as winning UCL and ending 6th in the national league) and unpredictable. When was the last time we were considered favorite to win EPL and real contenders to win UCL? We won the former as contenders (not favorite and there's a difference) and the latter as underdogs. That's not what Roman wants, and as he's smart and also not deluded, he knows you don't build a team like that in a couple of seasons (let alone 4 months) because he knows he didn't become a millionaire within a couple of years. He's a business man, a very successful one, so he won't make rookie mistakes with football, now that he's familiar with the hurdles and challenges of this specific business. It's long a term investment and process and he knows it. Denying that we'll go through a transition that will last a couple of years is refusing to see what's happening and reading between the lines.

Also, people who became fans during the Roman era (nothing wrong with that) only know this Chelsea, they don't know the old Chelsea. That alone has been a transition... Just look to ManCity to see how difficult it is to make a transition in your status. One year you're a mid-table team, maybe fighting relegation (after being relegated too many times) and the next you have a squad that is worth half a billion. If anything I'm very surprised we've won so much in such a short time. We were in CL SF and finals in a matter of a few years. Again, the problem is we've got spoiled... and I wonder what will happen to this club's support if we ever go through what Liverpool and Arsenal have been through the last few years and fear not, we will, every team goes a period of time when they don't win. Just look at history.

Also, let's talk about titles or the lack of them either when we don't have chances of winning any or when we've already won any. No one could predict Chelsea to win the UCL in 2012 and we haven't been contenders to EPL since we won it. Not to say last year we didn't even make UCL round of 16. So I'd say the expectations about titles for Chelsea are very low for years now, and the people who need to be realistic about it, are, so I'm not worried at all and I'm sure Mourinho is much less.

I disagree with the main point. Lower fan expectation? This is a team which finished 3rd last year. Added more players and brought in a great manager. Expectations are to do better than last year and that's normal. Doesn't mean the fans are spoilt. Sure, the fans should have more patience but the expectations of challenging for the title are fine. Not over-ambitious at all

Ofcourse the gameplay can be a lot better and with time, it will be, but transition isn't an excuse for not doing better in the league this year. Jose wants to build a dynasty but we shouldn't take a step backwards from last year. It's pretty much the same team, only better now. Oscar, Mata, Hazard have had a year of English football under their belt. Schurrle, Willian were added to challenge them/give depth. Pretty much no other changes and with the same base formation 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-31 whichever it is

[The Mak 4,459]

Had the chance? Sorry mate but most people I know don't choose to support this club. They do it because it was passed down to them. It isn't always enjoyable and there aren't always commemorative football shirts to order with little trophies on, but they cheer us on through the sun and rain.

What are you even on about now? Another 'special' set of Chelsea fans who are better than others?

I was talking about if some people on here had the same opportunities as you they would go to the games just as much as you, but whatever. Just forget about it. I can see you'll drag something else up to deflect attention away from you discriminating against Chelsea fans by using your own 'real supporter' measures and i'll get nowhere.

[Kojo 4,676]

Spot on mate.

Mourinho is leading us through this transition and I think he is exactly the right man for this club. I don't think I'm alone. If people don't think he is then that's fine and they can start a Jose Out petition for all I care. But my view is that we're building something here and it's going to take time. When we're winning stuff it's easy to jump on the bandwagon, but it's also important not to go overboard when things aren't going quite as smoothly.

I really thought a poster like you would have more sense, transition are you fucking mental?

It's our 3rd season we haven't challenged for the title and you're trying to convince me we are in transition?. Hazard, Mata and Oscar have already played a full season with u.

But I get it now, so if we buy a new striker next season, we will need another season of finishing 3rd and 4th because we need another transition don't we? Or in your case another 4 seasons because that's how long a transition takes for you guys.

Some people on here just make excuses upon excuses, you are worse than the people calling for Mourinhos head.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I really thought a poster like you would have more sense, transition are you fucking mental?

It's our 3rd season we haven't challenged for the title and you're trying to convince me we are in transition?. Hazard, Mata and Oscar have already played a full season with u.

But I get it now, so if we buy a new striker next season, we will need another season of finishing 3rd and 4th because we need another transition don't we? Or in your case another 4 seasons because that's how long a transition takes for you guys.

Some people on here just make excuses upon excuses, you are worse than the people calling for Mourinhos head.

Yes, transition. We won the Champions League playing very much the same football we were playing under Mourinho with almost the same spine. Years of failing to develop a new identity or even an evolution of the old has left us with a gap that we're still trying to bridge.

The funny thing is I think we're still very much in the title race, and we're almost certainly going to qualify for the next stage of the Champions League so quite why the need for panic when the team we were all expecting to be challenging for the title have lost to Cardiff and lost to us, are currently losing to Sunderland I don't know.

[Korea 734]

I give Mourinho this season and next to win the title. However, realistically, 2015-2016 season.....

The team makeup isn't a Mourinho team. Next season, with pretty much everyone on Chelsea involved with the world cup, I expect a late transition as well. However, by 2015, Mourinho should have no excuse of not winning the league by than or at least coming close....

He knows what type of Cms he needs, so Im assuming he has a plan either in Jan or the summer to get a cm.

[darrus 422]

The overreactions about people overreacting have become bigger than the overreactions themselves!

That probably sums up this thread and this board.

Fact is we're definitely a team in transition and the reasons were already named - up to last year main players were the same as 5-6 years ago, now we have an almost full 'change of guard'. Fact is - Roman knew the man he is calling to build him a team, knew his preferred tactics and ways of playing and still appointed him as a manager. And Mourinho (Benitez, Guardiola, Klopp, any other name) is not in the team to keep players happy or adjust to their needs. Coaches are either appointed to get results NOW!! or to create long term project.

Everyone loves using Barcelona as an example, but most forget that before going up they went through the abysmal period while building the system. Then they got a bit lucky with the generation they had - it's really one in a million coincidence to get Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol and others at your academy basically at the same time. But the main thing - now that they have their system of play players that don't fit, no matter how great they are, are quickly shipped out. Eto'O, Ibrahimovich, Villa as examples.

So it's either you get a bunch of players, stick them somewhere on the field where each of them feels more comfortable, build the play around it and get something out of the season. Problem in this is that next season you're probably going to get different players and will have to adjust your tactics to them. Or you create a system - sure, again based on what you have in front of you, but the point is in the system you remove any player, replace him with another one and it still works.

Now everyone knows that Mourinho is building from the back - solid defence, quick counter-attacking and compact in the middle with some interchangeable positions and posisbility to change scheme during the match. Wether the players will get it and wether it works we'll se in spring - only then it will become clear if we're up to something or the season is lost. Right now when we're in prime position in League Cup, with another cup not even started, first place in CL group and in worst case 7 points off the 1st place in the table with 11 matches out of 38 played it's still too early to declare that it's not working. That the team is not playing as good as the fans would like and we're dropping points when we are not supposed to, yes, fair point. Some personal decisions too (I'll still take Oscar over Mata as #10 any day but Lampard should be benched I think).

Though I object when people say we're getting lucky results. 1 time is lucky, 2 times is coincidence, 3 times is already a rule. It's not ideal to survive by last minute goals or forced mistakes by opponents but with team in transition (no matter how many people here dislike the word ) we get results the way we can, the main thing we are getting them. Mourinho's teams are always judged by his second season with Chelsea1 being an exception. First season is a build-up, and again at the end of season we'll see if it builds up to something or not.

I for one refuse to start overreacting in November. Though the temptation is great I must admit.

[Kojo 4,676]

Yes, transition. We won the Champions League playing very much the same football we were playing under Mourinho with almost the same spine. Years of failing to develop a new identity or even an evolution of the old has left us with a gap that we're still trying to bridge.

The funny thing is I think we're still very much in the title race, and we're almost certainly going to qualify for the next stage of the Champions League so quite why the need for panic when the team we were all expecting to be challenging for the title have lost to Cardiff and lost to us, are currently losing to Sunderland I don't know.

Do you know what transition means?

Transition is what Man City went through in 2010-2011, when they couldn't play football for shit, they where forming a team, then the next season they won the title.

Yes obviously a team is going to get better as the season progresses, that's if the players are kept and coming into there primes. You keep saying it as I'm panicking, I'm really not, I still think we will challenge for the title, that's if November doesn't beat us. We are not in transition at all, last season we where, this season we have played much better. But we only shown it in the first few games, we can still come back into it.

But if this season is just another test season then what is the point? It's just another season wasted, WE HAVE TO CHALLENGE FOR THE TITLE. If we don't then this season is an instant disaster.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

Spot. Fucking. On.

The Mikel/Lampard debate is the perfect example of this. The simple fact is neither is perfect for what we need but if neither of them performs then the club suffers. Most would love for Mikel to put in the type of performance he did against Everton week-in and week-out, but he doesn't. Similarly we'd like Lamps to put in the type of performances he did at points this season.

The fact that some can't even wait until the end of the match to post an 'I was right' comment is laughable.

What most of us recognise is that we've lacked managerial stability to provide and identity for this club. That identity won't come overnight, but we have a great man in charge who loves this club. Kneejerk reactions and individual agendas aren't what I'd call supporting this club.

Fuck you you are great !

[Kojo 4,676]

That probably sums up this thread and this board.

Fact is we're definitely a team in transition. Fact is - Roman knew the man he is calling to build him a team, knew his preferred tactics and ways of playing and still appointed him as a manager. And Mourinho (Benitez, Guardiola, Klopp, any other name) is not in the team to keep players happy or adjust to their needs. Coaches are either appointed to get results NOW!! or to create long term project.

Everyone loves using Barcelona as an example, but most forget that before going up they went through the abysmal period while building the system. Then they got a bit lucky with the generation they had - it's really one in a million coincidence to get Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol and others at your academy basically at the same time. But the main thing - now that they have their system of play players that don't fit, no matter how great they are, are quickly shipped out. Eto'O, Ibrahimovich, Villa as examples.

So it's either you get a bunch of players, stick them somewhere on the field where each of them feels more comfortable, build the play around it and get something out of the season. Problem in this is that next season you're probably going to get different players and will have to adjust your tactics to them. Or you create a system - sure, again based on what you have in front of you, but the point is in the system you remove any player, replace him with another one and it still works.

Now everyone knows that Mourinho is building from the back - solid defence, quick counter-attacking and compact in the middle with some interchangeable positions and posisbility to change scheme during the match. Wether the players will get it and wether it works we'll se in spring - only then it will become clear if we're up to something or the season is lost. Right now when we're in prime position in League Cup, with another cup not even started, first place in CL group and in worst case 7 points off the 1st place in the table with 11 matches out of 38 played it's still too early to declare that it's not working. That the team is not playing as good as the fans would like and we're dropping points when we are not supposed to, yes, fair point. Some personal decisions too (I'll still take Oscar over Mata as #10 any day but Lampard should be benched I think).

Though I object when people say we're getting lucky results. 1 time is lucky, 2 times is coincidence, 3 times is already a rule. It's not ideal to survive by last minute goals or forced mistakes by opponents but with team in transition (no matter how many people here dislike the word ) we get results the way we can, the main thing we are getting them. Mourinho's teams are always judged by his second season with Chelsea1 being an exception. First season is a build-up, and again at the end of season we'll see if it builds up to something or not.

I for one refuse to start overreacting in November. Though the temptation is great I must admit.

Oh my god learn what transition actually means.

Stop using it as an excuse, if we don't challenge for the title then the season has been a disaster, end of.

We have spend far too much money, Hazard, Oscar, Mata, Torres, Mikel, Luiz, Ramires, Cole, Terry, Ivan, Cech and Cahill have been here for long enough to know who they are in this club, a transition season is when a new team is built from scratch, the only team that are in transition this season are Spurs, they have bought a new team, we haven't. We've only added more players with Willian, Schurrle, De Bruyne and Eto'o, and only one of them is a starter.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

Oh my god learn what transition actually means.

Stop using it as an excuse, if we don't challenge for the title then the season has been a disaster, end of.

We have spend far too much money, Hazard, Oscar, Mata, Torres, Mikel, Luiz, Ramires, Cole, Terry, Ivan, Cech and Cahill have been here for long enough to know who they are in this club, a transition season is when a new team is built from scratch, the only team that are in transition this season are Spurs, they have bought a new team, we haven't. We've only added more players with Willian, Schurrle, De Bruyne and Eto'o, and only one of them is a starter.

You define transition when a club buys a new set of players. It can also mean when a club changes it's philosophy, which is exactly what Chelsea is doing right now. And the thing is, we are still in the title race, despite what some people think.

[Kojo 4,676]

You define transition when a club buys a new set of players. It can also mean when a club changes it's philosophy, which is exactly what Chelsea is doing right now. And the thing is, we are still in the title race, despite what some people think.

How has it changed it's philosophy?

The clubs prime target has been to play attacking football rather than counter attacking football since 2011-2012 season when AVB first started.

We are not in transition, we are set and ready to go, yes we will get better, but we have to challenge for the title and now is the time.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

How has it changed it's philosophy?

The clubs prime target has been to play attacking football rather than counter attacking football since 2011-2012 season when AVB first started.

We are not in transition, we are set and ready to go, yes we will get better, but we have to challenge for the title and now is the time.

It changed it's philosophy when FFP came in and signing a manager on a 4 year deal. And from the performances, you can tell there is change happening off field.

[Barbara 15,149]

I disagree with the main point. Lower fan expectation? This is a team which finished 3rd last year. Added more players and brought in a great manager. Expectations are to do better than last year and that's normal. Doesn't mean the fans are spoilt. Sure, the fans should have more patience but the expectations of challenging for the title are fine. Not over-ambitious at all

Ofcourse the gameplay can be a lot better and with time, it will be, but transition isn't an excuse for not doing better in the league this year. Jose wants to build a dynasty but we shouldn't take a step backwards from last year. It's pretty much the same team, only better now. Oscar, Mata, Hazard have had a year of English football under their belt. Schurrle, Willian were added to challenge them/give depth. Pretty much no other changes and with the same base formation 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-31 whichever it is

this is a team whose manager and executive have been saying that they're aiming the future first, the identity, then the rest. We finished 3rd, 14 points behind, so if we finish 8th only 10 is progress. You're treating this whole deal in such a simple and naive way... it's not just that simple because no matter who the manager is, when there's a change in command it's expected to come struggles with. Look at Pelegrini, Moyes, Ancelotti... If things were as simple as you're implying, football wouldn't be what it is.

We are spoiled, it doesn't mean being spoiled is bad. That's the thing you and Raphael took from my posts. I'm not judging anyone. Anyone can support the team the way they please, I don't care and it doesn't even bother me too much). It's unusual for me to have people being so proud to be right about the bad (and that's coming from someone from a country where managers are exchanged a few times a year in many teams - a few times a year, I'll repeat) and asking for manager heads, but overall, we support our players. I read in so many posts we should get rid of Luiz, Mata, Hazard, Mourinho, Torres, Mikel, Lampard, etc. As if they didn't belong to the club, as if they were so bad (or were so deprived of chances by Mourinho) that they should all leave in January or maybe receive the Malouda treatment. It's a feeling of overreaction, I never said people don't have a right and shouldn't overreact. The only person in all my posts I come nearly to judge was you (but never implied what kind of fan you are, just your opinion about what we're facing here)... Denying we're in transition seems just like that to me, denial, as you said with all words we aren't in transition right now. Being in transition isn't an excuse to the lack of titles, but it's a very natural and valid reason for struggling. Football isn't simple like that.

And said who to rebuild a new thing you don't have to take steps back? Maybe it's possible to do without it, sometimes it isn't. Our so amazing legacy from last year is a EL title we struggled more to win than the UCL title we beat Barcelona and Bayern. So what's so great from Chelsea last year that Mourinho should make sure is kept? If the best managers in world (or any manager) could always handle to just fix what's bad without affecting what's good, their lives would be much easier! Sorry if I think your view of this isn't realistic. The day football is as simple as you're making it out to be I'll lose all interest and will stick with volleyball.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Our team is good enough to win the league, our manager is one of the best around. Transition is an excuse for losers.

[darrus 422]

Oh my god learn what transition actually means.

I guess you should follow your own advice.

Buying players doesn't mean being in transition. If Barcelona or Ajax buys 22 new players they will still be playing the same way and getting some sort of results because the way of playing will stay the same. We don't have this sort of identity so new coach, new system and new players means time for building a team. The same is happening with City and MU this season.

If you think that sticking 15 good players and good coach in the same team means instant automatic results you seriously need a reality check - or just go study recent history of Real Madrid which is a great example of how amazing players and good coaches guarantees you nothing.