The Mourinho Thread

[The Mak 4,459]

Ivanovic is playing because there isn't anyone else

People moaned about Cole being selected - he's been dropped. People moaned about Azpi not playing - he's been playing.

It's not all about Ivanovic playing or not, it's more about what he's given licence to do - attack, and he isn't good at it to say the very least.

Azpi has been playing but out of position. He's also been told to sit when he's much better going forward than Brana. They could easily swap positions.

[bushman 2,043]

Nothing I say is based on race, creed or nationality. Nobody has reached a conclusion on you based on you being Canadian, for example.

You are the most bias poster here. Constantly, questioning others, accusing them of not being " the true supporters" because they do not attend Chelsea games. We all seen it here. There is no need to deny it. We all know, you gonna tell lies, now.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You are the most bias poster here. Constantly, questioning others, accusing them of not being " the true supporters" because they do not attend Chelsea games. We all seen it here. There is no need to deny it. We all know, you gonna tell lies, now.

Considering there are people on here who call our supporters plastic, who insult the manager, who insult the players 20 minutes into the second half and who re-write recent history after a couple of losses I'm not too sure if you're being serious.

I question people's support when they don't support the club in any meaningful way. I'll admit it.

[The Mak 4,459]

I question people's support when they don't support the club in any meaningful way. I'll admit it.

And you denote this 'meaning' from...your own personal beliefs? Is that really a measure to discriminate others against?

[Phil Driver 503]

Every manager born makes mistakes Jose just makes less ,still very early days , progress in Europe secured and well positioned in the league ,he needs to be the power at the club because our managers recently were always looking over their shoulders,this needs to be at least a four year plan and in four years time Chelsea will be a dominant power ,a lot of new supporters who have just jumped on a bandwagon have no patience. In a period of change and transition we are doing just fine and Mourinho is the long term manager for Chelsea .

It is very easy to manage a team and make the right decisions after a game and even then they will not have been seen to have been proven right or wrong .

[edetarod 2,155]

i just have one word to describe Jose's second stint so far: DISAPPOINTING

our football is so awful even i have difficulty sitting through an entire match, can't imagine any neutrals watching our games

we've actually regressed under Mou, our football was slightly more bearable to watch under the waiter

i wanted to say atleast we've improved defensively, but after conceding 4 goals against Newcastle and WBA, can't really say that either

[Sheva. 5,373]

who insult the players 20 minutes into the second half

You keep saying this, but isn't 65 minutes enough to know who's doing well and who should be replaced?

[The only place to be 11,313]

And you denote this 'meaning' from...your own personal beliefs? Is that really a measure?

What else would I 'denote' it from?

What do you 'denote' your's from?

[bushman 2,043]

Considering there are people on here who call our supporters plastic, who insult the manager, who insult the players 20 minutes into the second half and who re-write recent history after a couple of losses I'm not too sure if you're being serious.

I question people's support when they don't support the club in any meaningful way. I'll admit it.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You keep saying this, but isn't 65 minutes enough to know who's doing well and who should be replaced?

The person in question wasn't saying a player should be subbed, he suggested that one of our greats was tarnishing his legacy. Criticism like that is fucking laughable, so unless you want to defend that then I don't think we need to continue this discussion.

[Barbara 15,149]

Last season was transititon. We have a shot this year

Are you serious? I mean transition doesn't mean lack of titles, just a phase between two places. This is not an excuse for the lack of titles (why we're talking about titles in November is beyond me, but okay). Of course we have a shot this year, so does Arsenal, ManCity and who knows maybe even ManUtd and Liverpool. And so does Bayern, Barcelona, RM, Dortmund among others in Europe. Transition isn't an excuse for not winning, it's just addressing the obvious no matter how in denial people can be. Mourinho was hired to deliver a job: create a football identity to this club, not only this team. He's been saying he'll chase titles the best he can while he does that, but his boss asked him something very clear, something his boss thinks the club can now work with: a style of football that will be a legacy. Of course there will be pressure to win, but I'm sure when Roman looks to the last few years when we won nearly randomly and he knows it can't get worse than that. He looks back and to when we don't win the national league or even fight for it since 2010, when we were underdogs winning UCL and struggled with weak sides to win a second tier european title and he thinks, if we're going to win things without ever being real contenders, I better at least invest into making Chelsea a powerhouse in football. It's not like we've been top dogs in England or Europe lately...

Are they any doubts Roman is a smart man? You don't build an empire like he did if you aren't. He bought a club and the titles came, so he proved this team can be big in terms of title. Then he looked at teams like Bayern and Barcelona and studied their recent history to know or learn how they reached the level they're now. Barcelona isn't the biggest team in Spain and a few titles in the 2000's didn't turn them into that. RM is by a fair lead the biggest team in that country, but Barça are closing the gap. They were in a much inferior position and now they're fighting to prove they can the biggest team in history in Spain. Roman looked at how a team that while always had history never came close to be a powerhouse like Madrid, worked around and became the biggest team this century in that country. He saw a legacy being passed from manager to manager, as players came and left. Then he looked at Bayern and saw the same (except Bayern bought their way into greatness in the 70's, something very similar to what Chelsea did with Roman now in the 2000's). But he saw a philosophy that took years to be built. Last year I remember reading an interview from Bayern's president (forgot his name) where he said he looked at Barcelona and decided to copy their model (he didn't say it as straight as that, but he did say he looked at them and if I remember correctly he even said he went to Barcelona and talked to their president about the philosophy there). He decided to replicate it at Bayern and he paid the price. The team - even when facing lesser title contenders in Bundesliga - struggled and lost and I'll tell they're not done yet, they didn't reach their final goal yet. The fact that until Dortmund became a real contender, Bayern still struggled to win (and lost) titles in the Bundesliga when they had much more money should be taken into consideration. They paid a price and now they're collecting the results of a long term project.

I assume based on everything we read Roman decided to do the same. We already won every title (of importance) that was there to win, we don't have to prove anything to anyone, but we could take it to the next level and that's what they're trying. Mourinho won't be fired because of results and lack of titles, he will be fired if he shows Roman he's the wrong man to create an identity, to deal with those still young eggs and their limitations and fragility. Maybe Mourinho is the wrong man to the job, I'm not saying he's the right man, but then he's wrong for creating an identity and that can only be measured a couple of years down the road, not a couple of months. He'll be fired and proved the wrong man to the job when it's possible to evaluate his job and the message is clear, the job is to create a legacy, not to win titles off the bat as we did for years now, struggling a lot, being completely inconsistent (such as winning UCL and ending 6th in the national league) and unpredictable. When was the last time we were considered favorite to win EPL and real contenders to win UCL? We won the former as contenders (not favorite and there's a difference) and the latter as underdogs. That's not what Roman wants, and as he's smart and also not deluded, he knows you don't build a team like that in a couple of seasons (let alone 4 months) because he knows he didn't become a millionaire within a couple of years. He's a business man, a very successful one, so he won't make rookie mistakes with football, now that he's familiar with the hurdles and challenges of this specific business. It's long a term investment and process and he knows it. Denying that we'll go through a transition that will last a couple of years is refusing to see what's happening and reading between the lines.

Also, people who became fans during the Roman era (nothing wrong with that) only know this Chelsea, they don't know the old Chelsea. That alone has been a transition... Just look to ManCity to see how difficult it is to make a transition in your status. One year you're a mid-table team, maybe fighting relegation (after being relegated too many times) and the next you have a squad that is worth half a billion. If anything I'm very surprised we've won so much in such a short time. We were in CL SF and finals in a matter of a few years. Again, the problem is we've got spoiled... and I wonder what will happen to this club's support if we ever go through what Liverpool and Arsenal have been through the last few years and fear not, we will, every team goes a period of time when they don't win. Just look at history.

Also, let's talk about titles or the lack of them either when we don't have chances of winning any or when we've already won any. No one could predict Chelsea to win the UCL in 2012 and we haven't been contenders to EPL since we won it. Not to say last year we didn't even make UCL round of 16. So I'd say the expectations about titles for Chelsea are very low for years now, and the people who need to be realistic about it, are, so I'm not worried at all and I'm sure Mourinho is much less.

[The Mak 4,459]

What else would I 'denote' it from?

What do you 'denote' your's from?

Sorry, but I don't have my own independent measure of 'Chelseaness' to discriminate others against because I know that each supporter is different.

Just because I get to see the match live most of the time doesn't make me more of a supporter than those on the other side of the world who have to live off highlights the day after. The same way that just because you're in a more privileged position to actually see most of the games doesn't make you more of a supporter than anyone else. And the fact that you believe it does, well I feel sad for you in all honesty.

There is not just one way of supporting a club.

[Tomo 21,681]

i just have one word to describe Jose's second stint so far: DISAPPOINTING

our football is so awful even i have difficulty sitting through an entire match, can't imagine any neutrals watching our games

we've actually regressed under Mou, our football was slightly more bearable to watch under the waiter

i wanted to say atleast we've improved defensively, but after conceding 4 goals against Newcastle and WBA, can't really say that either

As much as i was one of the fans that supported Benitez while he was here, i find it hilarious how all off a sudden thing's were great under Rafa.

The way people go on about Benitez right now you would think we were winning every game playing like Brazil under the Spaniard

[The only place to be 11,313]

Sorry, but I don't have my own independent measure of 'Chelseaness' to discriminate others against because I know that each supporter is different.

Just because I get to see the match live most of the time doesn't make me more of a supporter than those on the other side of the world who have to live off highlights the day after. The same way that just because you're in a more privileged position to actually see most of the games doesn't make you more of a supporter than anyone else. And the fact that you believe it does, well I feel sad for you in all honesty.

There is not just one way of supporting a club.

Yeah there is. You support the club, you support the players and you keep your criticisms fair.

And fuck privileged position. I work fucking hard and make sacrifices to support this club, which is something you don't seem to understand. Very few people in the ground aren't in that boat.

However I do regard myself as lucky to be supporting the club at this moment in time, rather than the generation before mine who were fighting tooth and nail to keep this club alive. That type of support is invaluable and I think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture sometimes.

[Barbara 15,149]

Sometimes I feel people are supporting more their ideas than the team. It seems like they keep waiting (and wanting) to prove themselves right and consequently that the manager is bad, players X, Z and Y are bad just to prove manager A, B and players C, D and F are better... Being from a country that breathes football just as much as England I'm appalled by this sort of supporting. Some people don't support a team. They support their ideas to said team, and they stick with those (their ideas, not the team) til the end and when CHELSEA loses and their ideas are proved right, they're somehow proud to come here and say they were right from the start. Shocking. I'm not saying supporting like this is wrong, just that's wild for me as in the culture I'm part of we rarely see that.

Look few people dislike Benitez more than I do... when he was appointed I couldn't watch the first couple of matches because I was getting used to seeing that man commanding my team, but I had to work around it. I'm a Chelsea fan more than I'm a Benitez hater (if the word is even that, it seems too strong. I just disapprove of his morals as a manager and I don't like his tactics - or lack of them). I was happy to know he was only the interim and wouldn't be around longer, so maybe if he was permanent I would have a harder time supporting him. But bottom line is I had to support him. I still dislike him with a passion, what people here worship him for doing (although just go check his thread and find the same people criticizing him) is having an attacking minded football based on what I read. Still we finished 14 behind ManU when we were I guess 5-6 behind when he was appointed. We struggled against Europa League sides with much inferior squads than ours. We've got our ass kicked out of the Cups - by ManCity and Swansea and still people are here now talking about the good times when we had an attacking team under Benitez management. Talk about selective memory!

When every big team gave up on Europa League we treated it as if it was Champions League (which is the right thing to do, I'm not disapproving how we dealt with it), and then it was us and a bunch of 3rd tier teams, some of which we won the same 1-0 (or 2x1) I read some people complaining was the scoreline we had in Mourinho's first spell. Against THIRD TIER FOOTBALL CLUBS! Why is that people - when it's suitable to them - make the mediocre look outstanding and also degrade something of quality? Only Chelsea fans would degrade Mourinho's first season here... I bet opposition fans who may read certain comments here will laugh their arses off or will look absolutely stunned, confused and lost.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

i just have one word to describe Jose's second stint so far: DISAPPOINTING

our football is so awful even i have difficulty sitting through an entire match, can't imagine any neutrals watching our games

we've actually regressed under Mou, our football was slightly more bearable to watch under the waiter

i wanted to say atleast we've improved defensively, but after conceding 4 goals against Newcastle and WBA, can't really say that either

pretty sure you'll get behind Jose when we'll start winning 3+ games in a row. Just get behind the club and manager and stop complaining because Jose is not going anywhere.He belongs here and deserves SUPPORT from all of us not just because of his past merits but for his achievements,love and admiration for the club.

There are very few managers who get attached to the club they work for. Benitez got us results but the guy hated the club and was one heartless manager.Lets just be happy that we have Jose and not overreact.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Sometimes I feel people are supporting more their ideas than the team. It seems like they keep waiting (and wanting) to prove themselves right and consequently that the manager is bad, players X, Z and Y are bad just to prove manager A, B and players C, D and F are better...

Spot. Fucking. On.

The Mikel/Lampard debate is the perfect example of this. The simple fact is neither is perfect for what we need but if neither of them performs then the club suffers. Most would love for Mikel to put in the type of performance he did against Everton week-in and week-out, but he doesn't. Similarly we'd like Lamps to put in the type of performances he did at points this season.

The fact that some can't even wait until the end of the match to post an 'I was right' comment is laughable.

What most of us recognise is that we've lacked managerial stability to provide and identity for this club. That identity won't come overnight, but we have a great man in charge who loves this club. Kneejerk reactions and individual agendas aren't what I'd call supporting this club.

[TrippingStep 336]

As much as i was one of the fans that supported Benitez while he was here, i find it hilarious how all off a sudden thing's were great under Rafa.

Jose hasn't exactly set the world alight so far (for his standards) but the way people go on about Benitez right now you would think we were winning every game playing like Brazil under the Spaniard, embarrassing.

It was not great in the beginning but at least we were seeing improvements, he changed the back 4, our build-up from the back was more methodical and quicker to move the ball form side to side and into the midfield, as the season progressed, we were seeing patterns in the movements of our player with some adjustments for the opposition.

Like in some games, Hazard would stay more on the left before coming inside or playing more like a deep playmaker in tandem with Mata agains West Ham.

It was never an option because of the reactions of the fans but for me it would have been better to build on what we had at the end of last year and continue with Benitez. And He would have tried to build a central midfielder as he already wanted Mascherano in January.

Even Lampard was scoring quite a lot at the end, him being in great shooting position after some build-up plays.

The squad had the same flaws and was even thinner last year. Benitez changed the back 4 to play a higher line to play closer to the pivot players. We didn't see 4-5 players in the same line waiting for a cross with Benitez like we often see this year.

Until now, for me the best football we have seen the last two years have been under Benitez.