Romelu Lukaku

[BlueLyon 9,359]

41 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Just to reiterate, you think buying Morata will instantly help us become a better team and take Eden to the next level? Not the fact that the team has several weaknesses? You think all Lukaku has to his game is "outmuscling opponents"? 

No. He will help improve us as a team and Eden as team mate because he is better footballer! He is more sound techicaly and makes him easier to connect with team mates. Lukaku is better poacher, but I want our striker to be more versatile. 

Obviously we need other areas to improve, now your just mixing apples and oranges. But having Morata in a team will give us more fluid football rather having Lukaku. If you dont see that, then we can stop discussing. Lukaku finish is better, but Morata is a more complete player. Tbh, we could argue that Morata is actualy better header than Lukaku too...

What exactly does Lukaku have rather style based on outmuscling opponents? He is quick and decently strong, making him perfect to hold on ball and push through defensive line. If there is space, he is quick enough to run past them. He also has decent touch and dribbling, which comes helpful in certain cases. But against better defenders, he becomes very limited, because he is not that good dribbler or passer. He can run into space rather well, but intelligent defenders mark him out of game.

We should just stop discusing this, we both have opinion and its harder discusing on forum than in person, making it difficult to get to any conclusion. 

I get it Lukaku had brilliant scoring season, his goalrecord is amazing, and his physical atributes make him good striker, but I prefer Morata who is more techical. Neither will change the opinion, so lets see who we end up with and hopefuly they make a good striker for at least next 5 years.

[milka 3,308]

Romelu Lukaku will turn down a £200,000 a week offer at Manchester United , Romelu want to return to #Chelsea after three years at Everton. [Standard]

Romelu Lukaku looks close to a Chelsea return#CFC #EFC(Sky)

[Georgy 439]

4 minutes ago, milka said:

Romelu Lukaku will turn down a £200,000 a week offer at Manchester United , Romelu want to return to #Chelsea after three years at Everton. [Standard]

Romelu Lukaku looks close to a Chelsea return#CFC #EFC(Sky)

If he comes on 100k a week and handing a transfer request to Everton I might start to worm up to him.

[Fernando 6,378]

5 minutes ago, milka said:

Romelu Lukaku will turn down a £200,000 a week offer at Manchester United , Romelu want to return to #Chelsea after three years at Everton. [Standard]

Romelu Lukaku looks close to a Chelsea return#CFC #EFC(Sky)

I guess that's why United have to go after Morata. 

Because Lukaku does not want to go there. 

Might be that it is true, he does like this club and wants to return. 

[mashimaru161 77]

7 minutes ago, Georgy said:

If he comes on 100k a week and handing a transfer request to Everton I might start to worm up to him.

100k might be pushing it but a transfer request is on the way 

[Special Juan 27,106]

No need for a transfer request in a situation like this, he's been up front and spoken that his future is away from Everton. Everton won't stand in his way and it would be detrimental if they did, both Lukaku and Everton know it's a matter of when and not if.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

53 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Its very important for striker to be good in tight space man. Just look at Suarez, Lewa, Aguero, heck even Benzema for that matter. It makes their teams alot more dangerous because striker there is not just some figure waiting for ball, but actively involved in whole attack. 

I didnt say striker has to be as good as midfielder obviously, but I was pointing out that stats mean very little and that quality on ball is more important, despite stats dont show it. Hence why Modric is much better than Cesc, despite racking like 10times less assists per season.

I saw those stats of Lukaku against big teams. And? I evaluate Lukaku based on number of games I saw. And he performed rather poor in most of games against top teams. Even if there was an odd goal, he was not involved in whole play. That is thanks to how poor Everton was as whole, but still. I dont think he can have as good game overall as Morata had against Bayern for example, due to his limitations on the ball, regardless of how improved.

Im not making Morata sound like Bergkamp, because I stated many times he has the flaws. But he has ability to become very good ball playing striker, cant say the same for Lukaku. 

If Im making Morata sound so great, you make Lukaku look like next Henry. 

Its all about the style. Lukaku is more robust and Morata is more elegant on the ball, I would like us to try different approach, if we are selling Diego, actualy get a striker that has better control than Diego.

What has totalvoetbal to do with this? Yes Im not a giant fan of CBs dribbling through midfield, keeping possesion for 90min and pass pass pass. Doesnt mean I dont like balanced attacking football which requires skilled players.

When Chelsea plays against teams, they close down and park the bus or press us very high. It means there wont be much space, and collective game will be very important. Lukaku thrives on space and counters, but not so much against packed defence. 

If we will play every big game defending and waiting on counter for next 5 years, then maybe Lukaku will turn into brilliant buy. But I would love slightly more attacking fluid football and here Morata fits the bill better.

Do you even understand Im not blowing Morata out of water thinking he is next Messi? No, but he is IMO the best option among strikers we seriously were linked with that being Lukaku and him. If I could I would get Lewa or Belotti, both are better choices, but its not happening. Therefore my pick would be Morata, a personal preference of his style of play.

The problem here is you are mentioning the best in the game at it (playing in tight spaces and scoring goals) then you're offering up Morata like he's even close to their level... He's not he's the watered down version.

Modric and Cesc have different tactical deployments... Modric sets the tempo, Fabregas delivers the final ball. 

This next piece is and interesting argument one that I think is highly subjective too. Is the only way to beat Bayern Munich to out-football them? Not sure this approach will get you very far...

How much are you willing to invest in Morata based on the potential his spacial awareness, finishing, movement, composure and stamina will improve markedly? Based on what I've seen(and no I don't know the future) he looks like a poor mans version of what you'd like him to be and because the market for strikers is so poor he moves to the top of the queue.

Okay you speak of balance but what you are doing here is favouring ball retention to natural goalscoring ability. You would rather your primary goalscorer bang in 15-19 over the other guy who may not be as nice on the ball but can get you 25-30. As I've said many times before I'd take the goals up top and look for the ingenuity and ball retention elsewhere.

Yes Chelsea have played against teams that park the bus and its often taken a while to break them down, but the two things that won us the title this year are fitness and stamina. Every team is gonna struggle to find ways to beat teams that sit deep, look at Utd, City and Liverpool of you want examples. What we've been able to do is wear down opponents because we're physically fitter the same can be said about Tottenham... Lukaku gives us a bonafide finisher when chances fall to him(at least that's what I think we're buying.

Hate to break it to you but Conte is closer to Jose than he is to Pep... He prefers balance but deploys rigidness. The next five years will produce the same amount of attacking fluidity as it will counter attacking incisiveness. That's why I love Conte he just comes up with the best plan to win the game.

 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

2 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

The problem here is you are mentioning the best in the game at it (playing in tight spaces and scoring goals) then you're offering up Morata like he's even close to their level... He's not he's the watered down version.

Modric and Cesc have different tactical deployments... Modric sets the tempo, Fabregas delivers the final ball. 

This next piece is and interesting argument one that I think is highly subjective too. Is the only way to beat Bayern Munich to out-football them? Not sure this approach will get you very far...

How much are you willing to invest in Morata based on the potential his spacial awareness, finishing, movement, composure and stamina will improve markedly? Based on what I've seen(and no I don't know the future) he looks like a poor mans version of what you'd like him to be and because the market for strikers is so poor he moves to the top of the queue.

Okay you speak of balance but what you are doing here is favouring ball retention to natural goalscoring ability. You would rather your primary goalscorer bang in 15-19 over the other guy who may not be as nice on the ball but can get you 25-30. As I've said many times before I'd take the goals up top and look for the ingenuity and ball retention elsewhere.

Yes Chelsea have played against teams that park the bus and its often taken a while to break them down, but the two things that won us the title this year are fitness and stamina. Every team is gonna struggle to find ways to beat teams that sit deep, look at Utd, City and Liverpool of you want examples. What we've been able to do is wear down opponents because we're physically fitter the same can be said about Tottenham... Lukaku gives us a bonafide finisher when chances fall to him(at least that's what I think we're buying.

Hate to break it to you but Conte is closer to Jose than he is to Pep... He prefers balance but deploys rigidness. The next five years will produce the same amount of attacking fluidity as it will counter attacking incisiveness. That's why I love Conte he just comes up with the best plan to win the game.

 

Agree, Conte is somewhat a middle man between Mou and Pep. Pragmatic, but still trying to implement fluid football. Afterall he still played with Tevez and later bought Morata, both good techical players in juve to fit his style. Llorente was there too, but his career in Juve was not what it was expected. 

Maybe I was not as clear as I thought, but not for a second I think Morata is already very good striker. His link up is good, but he will need to be alot better in finishing and leading the line. However I am certain from what I saw, he has ability and potential to be realy realy good and thats why I hope we sign him instead. 

So to speak, Lukaku weakness is techical, and Moratas is finishing, leading the line. I think Lukaku will never be world class in techical department, while Morata can improve finishing and leading the line greatly with regular gametime and experience. 

It true however that I hope Chelsea tries to control games bit more. We are realy poor at keeping possesion and under pressure. Better midfielder and wingbacks are crucial here, but so is techical striker. Obviously if goal for Conte is to recreate the counter attacking power team like old guard Chelsea, then Lukaku definately fits more. However that team advantage was experience and efficiency even in biggest games, something this team has yet to show. We are not even as close as imposing as in 2004-2010.

[Clockwork 1,769]

21 hours ago, pHaRaOn said:

I saw some posts about how Lukaku can't score against a big teams.

Lukaku' goals in Premier League (WBA + Everton):

Top 4: 12 (14,2%)
5-10: 26 (30,6%)
11-16: 24 (28,2%)
Bottom 4: 23 (27%)

For example:

Morata' goals in Serie A (Juventus) + La Liga (Real Madrid):

Top 4: 1 (2,5%)
5-10: 13 (32,5%)
11-16: 12 (30%)
Bottom 4: 14 (35%)

Harry Kane' goals in Premier League (Tottenham):

Top 4: 8 (10,3%)
5-10: 20 (25,6%)
11-16: 28 (35,9%)
Bottom 4: 22 (28,2%)

Lukaku plays for a non top 4 team, so Lukaku plays more games against top 4 teams. Extra 2 games every season in a small sample size can make a huge difference. 

This is a really deceitful way to use statistics. Shame

[Bernard N Y Burgesson 139]

look at this. See how low costa's arieal ability is. Read somewhere on this platform that lukaku is as bad as costa in aerial duels.

 

[Bernard N Y Burgesson 139]

5 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Lukaku plays for a non top 4 team, so Lukaku plays more games against top 4 teams. Extra 2 games every season in a small sample size can make a huge difference. 

This is a really deceitful way to use statistics. Shame

No He playes against six while morata plays against 2 in spain and about 4+ in juventus

[The Skipper 20,593]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

No. He will help improve us as a team and Eden as team mate because he is better footballer!

Lukaku is the better striker.

[The Skipper 20,593]

17 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Lukaku plays for a non top 4 team, so Lukaku plays more games against top 4 teams. Extra 2 games every season in a small sample size can make a huge difference. 

This is a really deceitful way to use statistics. Shame

The percentages are not deceitful. The point of the post imo is that in the Morata v Lukaku debate, the "Lukaku struggles to score against better teams" argument, pretending as if Morata is consistently outstanding in them, can't really be used as a sound argument.

[The Skipper 20,593]

39 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

Okay you speak of balance but what you are doing here is favouring ball retention to natural goalscoring ability. You would rather your primary goalscorer bang in 15-19 over the other guy who may not be as nice on the ball but can get you 25-30.

Yes! This is what I'm trying to make you understand - in Conte's system, we need lots of goals from our CF, more so than some one who's good at linking up play. Lukaku isn't even a black hole compared to Costa either, he doesn't lose the ball nearly as often enough. Lukaku has 7 assists this season...

[Bernard N Y Burgesson 139]

i know this is the wrong place to bring this up but i feel chelsea hve made a mistake with solanke. 

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

11 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Yes! This is what I'm trying to make you understand - in Conte's system, we need lots of goals from our CF, more so than some one who's good at linking up play. Lukaku isn't even a black hole compared to Costa either, he doesn't lose the ball nearly as often enough. Lukaku has 7 assists this season...

Another stat that goes unnoticed is Dispossessions per game and unusable touches per game.

Costa was the second worst in both categories this year, only Zaha was worse. 

Costa Dispossessed per game - 3.4 (3rd worst in all of Europe)

Costa Bad Control per game - 3.1 (9th worst in all of Europe)

 

Those numbers are horribly bad...

 

Lukaku Dispossessed per game - 2.4 (28th in Europe)

Lukaku Bad Control per game - 2.1 (113th in Europe)

[Rapkun 668]

4 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Lukaku > Morata though. Bakayoko is just as big of a talent as Tolisso too. Not sure what's so bad about this. 

Also, how on earth do you know who's first or second choice? You got Roman and Conte's ear?

All Lukaku has over Morata is his goalscoring record and thats mainly due to the fact he has been playing regularly since going to Everton, Morata is more than just goals.

l'equipe reported that chelsea got fed up with the intermediaries during the negotations and that they asked about Tolisso during a meeting with Lyon's president. A day later, their president admits there has been a meeting with chelsea representatives and mutual interest in players from both sides which if you read the article on l'equipe (from a pretty reliable journo) is pretty accurate and went on to name the players in question (Traore, Zouma, Tolisso).

The story about the intermediaries with Bakayoko is also accurate. His brother is his agent. There was a documentary about Bakayoko in a french tv show and it had bits about his brother and he came across as very stupid person. Word is him and his friends are trying to get a cut being involved in the transaction. Teams always have a list of targets for every positions they want to strenghten and it's very clear Bakayoko was the top priority in midfield, probably still is. I don't even need to plea the Lukaku vs Morata case since we're getting closer to signing Lukaku.

Media are not always reliable and/or accurate but they give you a pretty good idea of the situation IMO.

[Bernard N Y Burgesson 139]

for people who say Lukaku is not an upgrade to costa are joking around

.

He might not be the upgrade we are looking for but he is an upgrade to costa