Chelsea Transfers

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

44 minutes ago, Jype said:

Two years ago Lollichon recommended the club sign Areola ahead of Kepa. If only Marina had listened to him then.  

Sorry, I'm a bit impatient about this but it's with the forum as a whole, not you specifically. What evidence does anyone have that Marina makes any footballing decisions? I mean any at all? Until someone shows me evidence, I see no reason whatsoever to believe that Marina decides which players we go for. Which ones we can or can't afford, yes, but which ones we should target on footballing grounds, no.

Please boys and girls let's stop regurgitating this myth.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

43 minutes ago, Jason said:

At least we wouldn't have blown 71 million on a keeper!

We should have replaced Thibaut without spending a penny. Anybody notice who was on the bench for PSG in the Champions League final?

[Jype 6,398]

 

36 minutes ago, Jason said:

At least we wouldn't have blown 71 million on a keeper!

Yep, exactly my point. Areola then might not have been good enough either but at least he wouldn't have cost a shit ton of money and be impossible to get rid if it didn't work out.

Same for Mendy now, if he's signed for say 20-25M he can still be sold at only a little loss if he turns out bad too. 

 

7 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Sorry, I'm a bit impatient about this but it's with the forum as a whole, not you specifically. What evidence does anyone have that Marina makes any footballing decisions? I mean any at all? Until someone shows me evidence, I see no reason whatsoever to believe that Marina decides which players we go for. Which ones we can or can't afford, yes, but which ones we should target in the first place, no.

Please boys and girls let's stop regurgitating this myth.

Well, just based on the fact many previous managers (Mourinho, Conte, Sarri) complained about not even being a 'manager' but rather a 'head coach' so basically saying they had no power on deciding signings and the board pretty much took care of everything. Sure they probably took opinions from the manager and scouting department but ultimately it was always the board who've decided who to go for.

Until 2017 I believe it was Emenalo who mainly decided transfer targets but when he left I think Marina took on a bigger role. That is until Cech was hired as a technical director last year.

That's not me saying Marina has done a bad job as a whole and I think she was more than right to deny Conte and Jose some of their targets but the Kepa situation was still a huge fuck up, no matter who's responsible for that. 

[Jase 43,479]

13 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

So anyone who wants to be a scout for Chelsea can just become one without any experience? 🤔

But people gotta start somewhere? If that person is good enough, then why not? 

AVB became an opposition scout for Mourinho because he was very good at it, despite being young all those years ago. Same even goes to Nagelsmann, who did the same for Tuchel about a decade plus ago.

25 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Yes Lollichon is more experienced, still he recommended Areola who isnt good enough. He is too error prone. So no he isnt some magical scouting talent.

Also just because someone was a great player or is operating well in different field doesnt make him a great scout or a manager for that matter. 

Take a look at Michael Edwards. Shite player. But man was in scouting since 2003. He worked for one of the first data tracking companies Prozone and pioneered new approach to search for top talent. Took years to perfect that and then ended in Pool. So yes experience definately plays a part today. Maybe it didnt years ago when you came to stadium and if you were once top player you recognized another one on the pitch. Today, times have changed. Too many factors. 

No one gets it right all the time, not even the best but one would think someone like Lollichon in his profession would have more credibility than others. 

Also, since you are saying or implying that those without experience won't have a clue in scouting players, identifying talent, then why the heck you, me and everyone else is always "telling" the club to buy this player, that player? What experience do all/most of us have besides watching the game as a fan? Or are you gonna say we fans know better than those in the profession, than those who watch players on regular basis and have more access to data than we do? 

[Jase 43,479]

13 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Anybody notice who was on the bench for PSG in the Champions League final?

You keep on saying him and yet, he has made only ONE appearance since joining PSG. Has barely even made appearances in cup competitions. 

[Jase 43,479]

31 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

This was never the problem. Problem wasnt spending 70m, but on who. 

Unless it's Oblak or even Ter Stegen (or in hindsight Alisson), it was idiotic to spend that much on a keeper.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

30 minutes ago, Jype said:

ultimately it was always the board who've decided who to go for.

The board is not Marina of course. In the end, I don't believe that even they have been the ultimate decision makers. I have no tangible evidence to support it so I don't throw it around in too many posts but I believe that Roman, and latterly Arkadiy, have decided. That's not to say they initiate all the moves; they will certainly have accepted the advice of others on many occasions. This will have included buying players recommended by others, and not buying some which were resisted by others.

One thing I'm fairly certain of is that there is no chance at all that Roman would have given away the best part of playing Football Manager for real, the selecting of the players, to an absolute amateur like Marina. That just makes zero sense. It's understandable to defer to 'expert' opinion but why let someone who demonstrably knows less than you yourself do, make the decisions? I can understand Roman taking playing personnel decisions away from technical staff so he can enjoy making them himself. Causing all of the associated friction by overriding your football people, only to give the power to a complete novice is stupid beyond belief and I do not believe it. No way at all Marina makes player choices for football reasons.

I am so ready to believe that Roman has made decisions himself because, if I had his money, that is exactly what I would have done. I would have made no bones about it either. Despite the impression I give on here, I am not a complete idiot however, I would have listened to football people and, if convinced by their arguments, would have deferred to them regularly. Ultimately however the final decision would always have been mine.

[ulvhedin 507]

53 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

So anyone who wants to be a scout for Chelsea can just become one without any experience? 🤔

Yes Lollichon is more experienced, still he recommended Areola who isnt good enough. He is too error prone. So no he isnt some magical scouting talent.

 

One more time - Areola was proposed as a stop-gap, no to blow 70m on worse Kepa in panic buy. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Unless it's Oblak or even Ter Stegen (or in hindsight Alisson), it was idiotic to spend that much on a keeper.

Well no, because if the player turns out fine, its worth it.

If you are saying that all transfers thar are overspent are idiotic unless the player is world class, what about Chilwell then?

If he ends up good, np paying 50m for him. If not...

[BlueLyon 9,359]

48 minutes ago, ulvhedin said:

One more time - Areola was proposed as a stop-gap, no to blow 70m on worse Kepa in panic buy. 

I remember it mentioned he thought Areola as by far best GK in France. I doubt that was meant as stop gap. We were in race to sign someone for long run. Althrough IMO that about panic is complete bollocks. We planned this for a while IMO. 

 

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Well no, because if the player turns out fine, its worth it.

If you are saying that all transfers thar are overspent are idiotic unless the player is world class, what about Chilwell then?

If he ends up good, np paying 50m for him. If not...

So you're saying spending 71 million on Kepa, a keeper who not many even heard off before signing for us, was good then?

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, BlueLyon said:

I remember it mentioned he thought Areola as by far best GK in France. I doubt that was meant as stop gap. We were in race to sign someone for long run. Althrough IMO that about panic is complete bollocks. We planned this for a while IMO. 

The club wanted to buy Alisson but that went out of the window once he joined Liverpool. Kepa was recommended by Sarri. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

You keep on saying him and yet, he has made only ONE appearance since joining PSG. Has barely even made appearances in cup competitions. 

Would Marcin be on the bench behind our starting keeper? If no one was prepared to take a decision which, as pointed out at the time I made the suggestion, would have been a radical choice, we could have gone with an experienced short term goalie, and made it clear to Marcin that he was the heir apparent. That would have left us a far, far better situation than we find ourselves in now.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Well no, because if the player turns out fine, its worth it.
If you are saying that all transfers thar are overspent are idiotic unless the player is world class, what about Chilwell then?
If he ends up good, np paying 50m for him. If not...

It is very different positions.

Chillwell could be a shite left back and we'd be able to sell him for 20-30 mil quite easily based on what could be and what he was for leciester.

Look at morata. People look at him as being a bust but we recouped the investment same as many others.

World record fee for a kid on a hype train who didn't have the attributes of a top gk was always incredibly risky.

But it's done now and it's the situation we're in. He's somehow still getting picked for Spain so someone rates him so maybe someone will buy him down the road

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Unless it's Oblak or even Ter Stegen (or in hindsight Alisson), it was idiotic to spend that much on a keeper.

Even for any of them I think.

[Jase 43,479]

27 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Would Marcin be on the bench behind our starting keeper? If no one was prepared to take a decision which, as pointed out at the time I made the suggestion, would have been a radical choice, we could have gone with an experienced short term goalie, and made it clear to Marcin that he was the heir apparent. That would have left us a far, far better situation than we find ourselves in now.

I don't think Bulka was ever gonna be the future for us but think we can agree that spending 71 million on Kepa has turned out to be the mistake. 

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Even for any of them I think.

I disagree? Oblak or Ter Stegen has proven themselves over the years and while the fee may be huge for a keeper, at least we would know what we get from them.

[Strike 7,217]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Unless it's Oblak or even Ter Stegen (or in hindsight Alisson), it was idiotic to spend that much on a keeper.

Agree. Not to mention the club boxed itself into the situation by not reading Courtois' desire to leave, contract ending