Chelsea Transfers

[DDA 9,690]

I like the look of Gravenberch. Wonder if he would make it in the Prem.

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

46 minutes ago, DDA said:

I like the look of Gravenberch. Wonder if he would make it in the Prem.

An absolute gem in FIFA 22 career mode. Best CM in the game imo. 

Given how Ziyech, VDB, and De Jong have faired outside of the Eredivisie, he would be a gamble. 

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

2 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Throw Sarr into the list as well. Despite who is leaving, I think we may only get 1 or 2 CBs next summer on the suspicion we may go back to a back 4. 

Squad wise it might be sensible. With Billy and Conor returning we have an abundance of midfielders but will probably be at least 1 CB short compared to the current situation.

That being said, I doubt TT will just go back to before just bc it is more suitable to the number of options we have in the respective positions. He would do so only to add more variety to his tactical repertoire. I don't think he will bin the 3atb any time soon.

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

11 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

I don't think he will bin the 3atb any time soon.

The CM's in Tuchel's system are in my opinion the most important.

People bang on about how our midfield two cannot provide enough in the final third, being goals or assists. I think this system prevents, or limits them from doing so as it will always be a trade off. Kovacic, Kante, and Jorginho make the system tick because they are very disciplined in their possession and position. Adding a creative midfielder in there is going to create an unbalance in that midfield. 

 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

5 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

 But that is the issue. Right there. 

Literally 90% of the forum predicted he wouldn't deliver because he doesn't fit the system. The club, and the other 10% of the fanbase, just looked at his output. 

True, valid points and I have seen some other posts from you and other guys about him not fitting and the system being affected etc which I agree with points from (too big a can of worms to type out probably could post something that would take all day to type) but lets not beat around the bush here, we needed a striker. This striker, regardless of if it were Kane, Lukaku, Aguero or whoever else, was the one thing we needed to go and push City and Liverpool. We got Lukaku, many pundits, journalists, fans etc thought Lukaku to Chelsea, thats the move they need, they will be right up there come the end of the season because he will score them goals.

Don’t want to take anything away from the way we won the CL without that sort of numbers from a CF but the CL is different (because we had some excellent games and fully deserved to win it outright in my opinion based on the majority of the knockout games), its knockout football, not nearly 40 games over the slog of the best part of 10 or 11 months or so and promising system or tactic or not, those guys wont do it enough so thats why we better hope Lukaku or another attacker can get a lot of goals to compensate for that. And lets not pretend that running the gap close/trying to win the title wasn’t going to be the objective this year after what Tuchel did with this group in a short space, so to do that, we needed a CF and well when looking at a CF, one thing tends to stand out more than anything else - how many goals did/do they score? Stats do overshadow things in football but even then, I find it hard to believe a manager as good as Tuchel cannot find a way to get goals and more out of Lukaku as well as keep the other good things we’ve seen from others than what we’ve seen so far. Even if he has got limitations. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

16 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

True, valid points and I have seen some other posts from you and other guys about him not fitting and the system being affected etc which I agree with points from (too big a can of worms to type out probably could post something that would take all day to type) but lets not beat around the bush here, we needed a striker. This striker, regardless of if it were Kane, Lukaku, Aguero or whoever else, was the one thing we needed to go and push City and Liverpool. We got Lukaku, many pundits, journalists, fans etc thought Lukaku to Chelsea, thats the move they need, they will be right up there come the end of the season because he will score them goals.

Don’t want to take anything away from the way we won the CL without that sort of numbers from a CF but the CL is different (because we had some excellent games and fully deserved to win it outright in my opinion based on the majority of the knockout games), its knockout football, not nearly 40 games over the slog of the best part of 10 or 11 months or so and promising system or tactic or not, those guys wont do it enough so thats why we better hope Lukaku or another attacker can get a lot of goals to compensate for that. And lets not pretend that running the gap close/trying to win the title wasn’t going to be the objective this year after what Tuchel did with this group in a short space, so to do that, we needed a CF and well when looking at a CF, one thing tends to stand out more than anything else - how many goals did/do they score? Stats do overshadow things in football but even then, I find it hard to believe a manager as good as Tuchel cannot find a way to get goals and more out of Lukaku as well as keep the other good things we’ve seen from others than what we’ve seen so far. Even if he has got limitations. 

But it's that type of thinking that can hinder squads for years. Both Klopp and Pep have always preached that if the right signing isn't available, don't go for the wrong one. This is exactly what happened to us in 2017 when Conte's first choice options weren't available, so he opted for his plan B's and C's. These signings have hindered us for years and we are still feeling the affect. This is something I am amazed neither Tuchel nor the club especially considered before buying Lukaku. 

As many have alluded to, we should of just took our chances with who we have + Broja and wait for the right signings.  

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

35 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

The CM's in Tuchel's system are in my opinion the most important.

People bang on about how our midfield two cannot provide enough in the final third, being goals or assists. I think this system prevents, or limits them from doing so as it will always be a trade off. Kovacic, Kante, and Jorginho make the system tick because they are very disciplined in their possession and position. Adding a creative midfielder in there is going to create an unbalance in that midfield. 

 

 

yeah, in our 3atb our 2 cms have to be rather conservative and defensively strong to allow the wingbacks to be this offensive, make runs behind the opposition defence and come inside for shooting positions. In a back 4 we would have the fullbacks playing way more conservatively and two midfielders being more adventorous. There is no optimal solution, it is just two different approaches. I think a huge factor is how long it takes teams to get used to our system. We are currently the only big CL club to play 3atb so it makes it awkward to play against us esp in big games. But at some point we will become more predictable and might need to switch things up. As long as Thiago is our main cb tho i think he will need to be protected by two fast cbs aroudn him, so i guess next season will still be mostly 3atb if TT stays.

[Vesper 28,773]

 

[Vesper 28,773]

14 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Just like Saul... 

Wijnaldum is a proven EPL player

[Vesper 28,773]

Just now, Vesper said:

Wijnaldum is a proven EPL player

IF he went on a loan to Ajax, they are even more a threat, and I rate them (despite them being in a true farmers league) as a VERY dangerous team in the CL

[NikkiCFC 7,942]

11 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

 

Again, different situation completely, would you not think? 

Wijnaldum’s proven himself as a very good MF player in one of the best PL sides in the last 10 years, where as Saul has clearly not acclimatised to the PL and struggled to show anything of what he has shown for Atletico in the past (unfortunately).

Would go as far as saying Wijnaldum for 6 months would be a great January signing, never mind mentioning the fact its a loan signing and these sort of loans are also difficult to find.

He never proved himself in 2 men MF. He played in 3 men MF in Liverpool where he was most attacking one and in Newcastle he was left MF in 442, AM in 4231 or even a winger sometimes.

@MoroccanBlue mentioned today our MFs are our most important players which last couple of games proved and they are disciplined defensively. Putting Wijnaldum there is to me similar to playing Mount in double pivot which we saw a couple of times as unsuccessful experiment. 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

9 hours ago, lucio said:

Maybe we will need 2 if rudiger and azpi leave , especially as Silva is so old 

Silva will stay, the other three (Azpi, Christensen, Rudiger) are 50:50.

[King Kante 1,474]

7 hours ago, Blues Forever said:

Silva will stay, the other three (Azpi, Christensen, Rudiger) are 50:50.

Think it is probably less than 50/50 with Rudi and AC. In Rudi's case it appears to be more like 10/90 at this point; if the rumours about his wage are true. 

[King Kante 1,474]

13 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

True, valid points and I have seen some other posts from you and other guys about him not fitting and the system being affected etc which I agree with points from (too big a can of worms to type out probably could post something that would take all day to type) but lets not beat around the bush here, we needed a striker. This striker, regardless of if it were Kane, Lukaku, Aguero or whoever else, was the one thing we needed to go and push City and Liverpool. We got Lukaku, many pundits, journalists, fans etc thought Lukaku to Chelsea, thats the move they need, they will be right up there come the end of the season because he will score them goals.

Don’t want to take anything away from the way we won the CL without that sort of numbers from a CF but the CL is different (because we had some excellent games and fully deserved to win it outright in my opinion based on the majority of the knockout games), its knockout football, not nearly 40 games over the slog of the best part of 10 or 11 months or so and promising system or tactic or not, those guys wont do it enough so thats why we better hope Lukaku or another attacker can get a lot of goals to compensate for that. And lets not pretend that running the gap close/trying to win the title wasn’t going to be the objective this year after what Tuchel did with this group in a short space, so to do that, we needed a CF and well when looking at a CF, one thing tends to stand out more than anything else - how many goals did/do they score? Stats do overshadow things in football but even then, I find it hard to believe a manager as good as Tuchel cannot find a way to get goals and more out of Lukaku as well as keep the other good things we’ve seen from others than what we’ve seen so far. Even if he has got limitations. 

The problem with this however is that, yes we needed a CF, but we didn't need Lukaku. I said before his signing I'd just rather keep Giroud and Tammy if it meant going for him instead so it wasn't as if we had absolutely no options. 

I mean, let's be serious have we got any more production out of him than we would have out of those two this season?

What is most worrying is that it isn't even a case were we can say, ok, bad singing, lets move on. His fee and wages mean that we are now lumbered with him and will be out of the running for other CF's who come up in the next few years.

As @MoroccanBlue says just above, Lukaku was clearly a bad buy to the majority of people and it wasn't a transfer we should've gone near as not only is it just a case of a bad buy that will impact us for a year, it is a bad buy that will impact us for multiple years. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by King Kante

[Clockwork 1,794]

We need Athletico do us another solid and buy our unwanted striker again.

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

16 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

He never proved himself in 2 men MF. He played in 3 men MF in Liverpool where he was most attacking one and in Newcastle he was left MF in 442, AM in 4231 or even a winger sometimes.

@MoroccanBlue mentioned today our MFs are our most important players which last couple of games proved and they are disciplined defensively. Putting Wijnaldum there is to me similar to playing Mount in double pivot which we saw a couple of times as unsuccessful experiment. 

Jorginho never really played in a 2 prior to Lampard being in charge here. Neither did Kovacic. You saying its not possible? Wjinaldum isn’t a championship player…. he’s a top player.

Wjinaldum and Mount are nothing alike so I don’t get the it would be the same as when Mount’s played there. It would be nothing alike if I had to be honest. Wjinaldum is definitely much better suited to playing a the double 6 than Mount who is a number 10.

5 hours ago, King Kante said:

The problem with this however is that, yes we needed a CF, but we didn't need Lukaku. I said before his signing I'd just rather keep Giroud and Tammy if it meant going for him instead so it wasn't as if we had absolutely no options. 

I mean, let's be serious have we got any more production out of him than we would have out of those two this season?

What is most worrying is that it isn't even a case were we can say, ok, bad singing, lets move on. His fee and wages mean that we are now lumbered with him and will be out of the running for other CF's who come up in the next few years.

As @MoroccanBlue says just above, Lukaku was clearly a bad buy to the majority of people and it wasn't a transfer we should've gone near as not only is it just a case of a bad buy that will impact us for a year, it is a bad buy that will impact us for multiple years. 

True and for me, thats the biggest thing that’s disappointing, even with the obvious limitations (although hes an improvement on both of Tammy and Giroud in terms of ability) because barring his first few games, his goal output won’t justify his playing at times (although same argument for the others - but 3 players out of those bunch have got to play - Mount’s only one who is reliable).

I don’t buy that its improbable for him and the others to somehow work together though and do much more than they’ve done so far this season. Illsuited buy or not. Tuchel is a top top coach and I don’t think its a matter of starting from scratch with his system so theres got to be something that will make more happen from those guys if they play together. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[King Kante 1,474]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Jorginho never really played in a 2 prior to Lampard being in charge here. Neither did Kovacic. You saying its not possible? Wjinaldum isn’t a championship player…. he’s a top player.

Wjinaldum and Mount are nothing alike so I don’t get the it would be the same as when Mount’s played there. It would be nothing alike if I had to be honest. Wjinaldum is definitely much better suited to playing a the double 6 than Mount who is a number 10.

True and for me, thats the biggest thing that’s disappointing, even with the obvious limitations (although hes an improvement on both of Tammy and Giroud in terms of ability) because barring his first few games, his goal output won’t justify his playing at times (although same argument for the others - but 3 players out of those bunch have got to play - Mount’s only one who is reliable).

I don’t buy that its improbable for him and the others to somehow work together though and do much more than they’ve done so far this season. Illsuited buy or not. Tuchel is a top top coach and I don’t think its a matter of starting from scratch with his system so theres got to be something that will make more happen from those guys if they play together. 

Well I hope you're right but I just don't see how it is possible on a number of fronts. 

First is that Lukaku himself hasn't ever shown any capability of being a difference maker in his career unless he is given open space to run into and he isn't required to press with the forward line. When exactly is he going to get that here? For sure, against the likes of Burnley, Zenit, Newcastle, Watford etc, he will probably get goals, but I am not convinced that his output would be any different to what Giroud would've got if given the same sort of minutes, whilst I also question if the team plays as well with him in the team in those sort of games; similar to the complaints Giroud used to get. 

Second is that this isn't the first time he has looked like this and people have tried to work with  him on it. Utd spent two seasons trying to get him to work, Belgium have never had him do much when faced with what he has to deal with in top end international football and even at Everton he got nullified when teams set up deep against them. Therefore, I am not sure what TT can do. 

This said, I appreciate that TT is lightyears ahead in coaching and football knowledge compared to me so who knows, maybe he does have some sort of plan. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,476]