closed Chelsea 0-0 Man United

[OneMoSalah 8,887]

Same team as v Atletico. Maybe only Giroud out and Silva back in. Dont see why he would change it radically after our best performance under TT. Calling for major changes after that performance is just daft if I am honest, more so Jorginho and Mount who are suspended v Atletico so may as well play them here as theyve shown they are key components under Tuchel so far.

Edited February 25, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Same team as v Atletico. Maybe only Giroud out. Dont see why he would change it after our best performance under TT. Calling for major changes after that performance is just daft, more so Jorginho and Mount who are suspended v Atletico so may as well play them here.

Giroud out for who? Tammy? Who never scores against the Top 6?

[OneMoSalah 8,887]

1 minute ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Giroud out for who? Tammy? Who never scores against the Top 6?

Werner down the middle. Ziyech/Pulisic/Havertz. Even then WBA just showed what a big CF can do against Maguire and Lindelof so wouldnt be surprised if Thiago Silva for Andreas was the only change. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

Just now, OneMoSalah said:

Werner down the middle. Ziyech/Pulisic/Havertz. Even then WBA just showed what a big CF can do against Maguire and Lindelof so wouldnt be surprised if Thiago Silva for Andreas was the only change. 

Werner down the middle will be redundant when we don't have anyone picking out his runs other than Jorginho when 1 of his 10 lob passes actually reach a teammate. If Werner is to play down the middle, Ziyech and Havertz need to both be on the pitch. 

[OneMoSalah 8,887]

22 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Werner down the middle will be redundant when we don't have anyone picking out his runs other than Jorginho when 1 of his 10 lob passes actually reach a teammate. If Werner is to play down the middle, Ziyech and Havertz need to both be on the pitch. 

As I said I think TT could change Giroud for one of them but he probably wont make radical changes meaning both likely wont start.

Id be surprised though if its more than Silva who comes in, dont think he will be desperate to make a lot changes, seeing a lot of people wanting Jorginho and Mount out the XI despite the fact they will miss the return leg v Atletico.

Also a lot of people mentioning Ziyech and Havertz looked pretty good when they came on, not sure where they managed to make this impression from. Havertz played only like 3 minutes plus added time considering he came on in the 87th minute and Ziyech 16 minutes plus added time. Granted both looked fitter but they didnt do anything of particular notice that stuck out as to why they should be included in the starting 11 for the game. I think if one was to be included from the beginning it wouldn’t be the worst idea but the impressions that they should both come in and start ahead of other players who are playing better is beyond me. Even then where has TT probably changed the most in our team since coming in? Between CHO/James at RWB, Giroud/Abraham upfront and having to take Silva out for injury we have barely seen it anywhere else. Havertz (although was injured) and Ziyech played v Wolves then both never really got a start in the PL games. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[King Kante 1,643]

2 hours ago, Muzchap said:

Yeah but if Alonso starts I'm worried 😟

Rudiger will cover but that will leave gaps.

Much prefer having Chilly bombing back.

I would personally play Chilwell in this game as I am wary of Utds counter attack and we all know Alonso isn't the quickest (understatement.) 

However, I am struggling to see what he has done wrong since he has come back apart from be slower than Chilwell. His link up play with Werner is better, he picks up space in the oppositions box much better than Chilwell and he has a much better shooting technique (for instance he gets Chilwell's chance against Wolves I am pretty certain he smashes that in.) 

Further, I think people are forgetting how indifferent Chilwell was before Alonso came back. He really wasn't tearing up trees. 

Now I get why people do not want him playing in this game, but for most games he is probably not going to lose his place just because he is slower than Chilwell (unless Chilwell comes back and starts playing like he did in Aug-Sept.) 

Edited February 25, 2021 by King Kante

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

14 minutes ago, King Kante said:

I would personally play Chilwell in this game as I am wary of Utds counter attack and we all know Alonso isn't the quickest (understatement.) 

However, I am struggling to see what he has done wrong since he has come back apart from be slower than Chilwell. His link up play with Werner is better, he picks up space in the oppositions box much better than Chilwell and he has a much better shooting technique (for instance he gets Chilwell's chance against Wolves I am pretty certain he smashes that in.) 

Further, I think people are forgetting how indifferent Chilwell was before Alonso came back. He really wasn't tearing up trees. 

Now I get why people do not want him playing in this game, but for most games he is probably not going to lose his place just because he is slower than Chilwell (unless Chilwell comes back and starts playing like he did in Aug-Sept.) 

This alonso apologetism is really painful to read. Like being in a toxic relationship. Alonso has wasted better chances than the one Chilwellhad vs Wolves. Alonso's linkup play with Werner is absolutely terrible. Alonso constantly vacates his position and consequently is found standing on his feet. Alonso doenst recover quickly enough so werner has to race back and defend at the corner flag which completely drains him for counter attacks. Werner will not start scoring regularly again as long as alonso is the player bheind him

[Jase 43,479]

31 minutes ago, King Kante said:

I would personally play Chilwell in this game as I am wary of Utds counter attack and we all know Alonso isn't the quickest (understatement.) 

However, I am struggling to see what he has done wrong since he has come back apart from be slower than Chilwell. His link up play with Werner is better, he picks up space in the oppositions box much better than Chilwell and he has a much better shooting technique (for instance he gets Chilwell's chance against Wolves I am pretty certain he smashes that in.) 

Further, I think people are forgetting how indifferent Chilwell was before Alonso came back. He really wasn't tearing up trees. 

Now I get why people do not want him playing in this game, but for most games he is probably not going to lose his place just because he is slower than Chilwell (unless Chilwell comes back and starts playing like he did in Aug-Sept.) 

Chilwell wasn't tearing up trees yes but was he a complete disaster?

One also gotta ask, what has Alonso done to just walk back into the starting XI? His last act before Tuchel came in caused us to be 3-0 down at HT against West Brom and then decided that he was better off being in the team bus than sitting in the stands to try and back the team. The only reason Alonso is even back in the XI is because of the change in manager.

You can point out that Alonso is better in this and that but how do you expect Chilwell to get better if he's just sitting on the bench? The annoying thing here is that we're supposed to be building for the future by playing players that were bought for the future but instead, we have suddenly gone back to using the players that aren't our future, should be sold and would have been sold if it wasn't for the pandemic. Said it in another thread, it's a bloody shame that Lampard was tactically incompetent/out of his depth because he had the right idea of the squad personnel for the future. Now? God knows where we are again under Tuchel. 

Moreover, having someone more dynamic and quicker than Alonso would also help out our general play. You see what we have on the right side with CHO/James and you see what we have on the left with Alonso. CHO/James both have pace and the ability to beat players and get forward. Alonso isn't capable of that. He doesn't have the ability and pace to beat and get past players, not even one on one. If you don't play him into space, he's not going to create anything. We are seriously the only top side around that are obsessed with playing a slow, snail-paced FB.

[Azul 1,615]

On 24/02/2021 at 13:49, Jason said:

Yes, it is down to individual's decision making but at the same time, you also need movement in the final third to create space to shoot. The last thing we want is for Werner - or anyone for that matter - to constantly cut inside, run into traffic and shoot into bodies. Pretty sure we have seen Ziyech done that a few times on the other side this season. 

Werner has had many opportunities to cut inside particularly when Mount passed to him and he made a run on the left side. Another one was when Ziyech passed to him and he ran on the right side. Both times he chose to make a wide run, even BT Sports analysts like Rio etc, noticed that as well. Comparing Ziyech when he has a completely different role does not make sense, because Ziyech never runs in behind and he does not have the pace to do so. Furthermore, I never said he "constantly" has to cut inside. I'm saying that Werner literally never does cut inside.

Werners decisionmaking is literally costing us at the moment in my opinion, even more so than Mounts. If we want to progress far in the CL and reach top four than we need to drop Werner on the bench and try Pulisic in that role. How many chances has Werner had to prove himself? And how many times did he shine out of all those chances? Give Pulisic three games atleast to find his form and I'm sure he'll outperform Werner massively, assuming he stays fit.

[Azul 1,615]

I'm sick of the way fans just accept the fact that Werner is incredibly average and are ok with him starting for us. There needs to be competition everywhere on the pitch. The same way Kante, Chilwell and James got benched is the same way Werner should be benched. He has been below par, and if we can manage to get Pulisic in the same form he was in last season, then I'd rather him start for us. Pulisic in "ok" form still outperforms this current Werner in my opinion.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Azul

[chelsea_4_eva 1,182]

Against all odds vs united & var

[NikkiCFC 8,358]

9 hours ago, Jason said:

One also gotta ask, what has Alonso done to just walk back into the starting XI? The only reason Alonso is even back in the XI is because of the change in manager.

You can point out that Alonso is better in this and that but how do you expect Chilwell to get better if he's just sitting on the bench? The annoying thing here is that we're supposed to be building for the future by playing players that were bought for the future

Change of formation is number one reason. Alonso is better LWB and that is it. We didn't suffer defensively because of him at all. He scored against Burnley, made great chance for Werner against Newcastle and played major part in Giroud goal against Atletico. Chilwell was horrible against Wolverhampton and in last couple of months under Lampard not convincing at all. 

Also this argument you used about future is irrelevant at the moment because we are in desperate situation to make top4. When Tuchel arrived we were 10th. So results are all that matters right now. Alonso in Chilwell's place against Wolves and possibly 2 more points because Ben missed our best chance after Havertz pass. 

He will not play once we go back to back 4 and game against Sheffield proved it in the second half. 

You seem annoyed every time you see Alonso, Giroud in the starting lineup. Probably even Jorginho. They are all doing very good. Without Olie we would not even play CL this season because he was outstanding from February to July last year and won us many points. So Werner would not be here 😄

Also you asked what has Alonso done to be back.

We can ask the same question. What has he done to be dropped completely? Mistake against WBA? Header in the middle and 4 players could cover that mistake. Silva did much worse mistake in that game. People are so overreacting on his mistakes. Like West Ham last season. 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by NikkiCFC

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

You seem annoyed every time you see Alonso, Giroud in the starting lineup. Probably even Jorginho. They are all doing very good. Without Olie we would not even play CL this season because he was outstanding from February to July last year and won us many points.

I have stated the reasons for being "annoyed" and I can't be bothered to repeat myself again.

"Annoyed" with Giroud? No one is arguing against his goal record. It's more about his general performance, especially for someone leading the line. 

And of course you think they are all doing very good...am not even surprised!

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

Also you asked what has Alonso done to be back.

We can ask the same question. What has he done to be dropped completely? Mistake against WBA? Header in the middle and 4 players could cover that mistake. Silva did much worse mistake in that game. People are so overreacting on his mistakes. Like West Ham last season. 

Really? Alonso was dropped because of the accumulation of mistakes/under-par performances under Lampard, going back to last season. What happened at West Brom was the straw that broke the camel's back. Azpi and even Emerson were played ahead of him at various points last season. 

[Fulham Broadway 17,339]

Laaaverly....

Chelsea 5-0 Manchester United Barclays Premier League 1999 - YouTube

[Jase 43,479]

Not related to this game but the next one...

+ Henderson out for a few weeks.

[Jase 43,479]

No Silva for this game. Everyone else fit, according to Tuchel. 

He hopes to have Silva back next week. 

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Jase 43,479]

14 hours ago, Azul said:

I'm sick of the way fans just accept the fact that Werner is incredibly average and are ok with him starting for us. There needs to be competition everywhere on the pitch. The same way Kante, Chilwell and James got benched is the same way Werner should be benched. He has been below par, and if we can manage to get Pulisic in the same form he was in last season, then I'd rather him start for us. Pulisic in "ok" form still outperforms this current Werner in my opinion.

The problem with Pulisic is he hasn't even been "ok" this season. For all the talk about him being injury prone and missing games, his last major injury was back in November. Since returning from his hamstring issue back then, Pulisic has played 17 of 22 games (1,026 minutes).

Of the 5 games he didn't play, he missed 1 due to tightness in his thigh (IIRC), 1 due to "awareness" in his hamstring, 1 due to family issue and he was an unused sub in the other 2 (one of the games was a dead rubber against Krasnodar).

Of the 17 games that he did play, he started 5 in a row (Wolves, West Ham, Arsenal, Villa, Man City) and then 3 in a row (Fulham, Leicester, Luton) and during this 17-game run, he produced just 1 goal (the 3rd against Leeds) and 1 assist (the 2nd goal against Burnley). That's a far cry from his numbers last season and I don't even recall one good performance from him, not one that me go "yup, that's the Pulisic from last season". Instead and think I'm not the only one, have been wondering "what has happened to the Pulisic of last season!?". Was that just a purple patch that he enjoyed last season and now he's back to being average? And not to mention, his last start/performance at Barnsley was truly forgettable. 

In contrast and yes Werner has been under par/inconsistent for month, but his output has been better than Pulisic in the same period. Werner has played 20 of 22 games (1,326 minutes) and produced 2 goals, 3 assists and won 2 penalties that gave us 4 additional points against Spurs and Sheffield United recently (the contribution is also very similar to Mount in the same period - 4 goals, 2 assists, 1 penalty won - despite being less consistent in performances). The numbers aren't big in general and they are of course no excuse for his inconsistent performances but just stating facts and if we want to talk about someone making the difference, then at least Werner has done it a bit more Pulisic so far this season.

Am all for Pulisic, Havertz and Ziyech etc to rediscover their form because if they do, then we might have a good chance of achieving something noteworthy this season. But the problem is, they are just so out of form at the moment and given all the big games we have in the next week or two, not sure if they can be trusted to make a difference from the start when we can't afford to drop points. Am sure they will start 1 or 2 games along the way because of the need of rotation etc but they need to wake up from their recent slumber that's for sure. 

[King Kante 1,643]

 

10 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Change of formation is number one reason. Alonso is better LWB and that is it. We didn't suffer defensively because of him at all. He scored against Burnley, made great chance for Werner against Newcastle and played major part in Giroud goal against Atletico. Chilwell was horrible against Wolverhampton and in last couple of months under Lampard not convincing at all. 

Also this argument you used about future is irrelevant at the moment because we are in desperate situation to make top4. When Tuchel arrived we were 10th. So results are all that matters right now. Alonso in Chilwell's place against Wolves and possibly 2 more points because Ben missed our best chance after Havertz pass. 

He will not play once we go back to back 4 and game against Sheffield proved it in the second half. 

You seem annoyed every time you see Alonso, Giroud in the starting lineup. Probably even Jorginho. They are all doing very good. Without Olie we would not even play CL this season because he was outstanding from February to July last year and won us many points. So Werner would not be here 😄

Also you asked what has Alonso done to be back.

We can ask the same question. What has he done to be dropped completely? Mistake against WBA? Header in the middle and 4 players could cover that mistake. Silva did much worse mistake in that game. People are so overreacting on his mistakes. Like West Ham last season. 

 

Thanks Nikki, saved me a big reply.

[Blues11 213]

17 hours ago, Azul said:

I'm sick of the way fans just accept the fact that Werner is incredibly average and are ok with him starting for us. There needs to be competition everywhere on the pitch. The same way Kante, Chilwell and James got benched is the same way Werner should be benched. He has been below par, and if we can manage to get Pulisic in the same form he was in last season, then I'd rather him start for us. Pulisic in "ok" form still outperforms this current Werner in my opinion.

Pulisic hasn't gotten a chance in this new system and formation to consistently play on the left. I think we've seen Werner have his moments but he's gotten many chances to not be wasteful aside from an easy goal. Pulisic's form hasn't been great this season but we could barely hold possession early on in the season with the 4-3-3 under frank. 

Now it seems like we have a solid system in place to help us maintain possession so it's definitely a good possibility Pulisic can rediscover some form here.

Always depends on being fit enough to make an impact for Puli, think the pressures of being the #10 got into his head early on. Too many bad shots to get blocked and not enough passes in dangerous areas. He definitely needs to get a lot stronger on the ball before TT trust him more. That being said he is way more shifty and dangerous in 1v1s than Werner on the flank. 

Our depth is strong and a lot of our players on the bench should be able to come in with this new system and outperform some of the current starters. I hope TT gives Chilwell, Havertz, Puli, and Ziyech more of a chance soon. They're going to need to earn it but it's also TTs job to integrate them in because that's a lot of talent that can help the squad.