The Tuchel Thread

[robsblubot 3,595]

5 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

A manager has finally been backed & we're going to excuse him? 

I've been on that side before, but Tuchel has no defence this time around. Most of our signings were ones he wanted, with Raphinha being the one he might have also wanted who got away (Kounde was Marina's obsession).

Yes, because I don't have that information -- whether he's been backed or not.

The mere *timing* of the deals tells me he wasn't. The top targets were snatched up early on.
 

[LAM09 7,062]

4 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Yes, because I don't have that information -- whether he's been backed or not.

The mere *timing* of the deals tells me he wasn't. The top targets were snatched up early on.
 

Who were these "top targets"? 

KK was bought on the back of Boehly's knowledge of his time in Naples...  

9 minutes ago, Pizy said:

But what about Bielsa? Plays extremely attractive football and with access to a MUCH more talented squad than he’s ever had at Leeds I wonder what he could do. With the exception of Jorginho, we have a squad that’s full of athletes who can play the ultra aggressive pressing game. I think he’s worth consideration.

There's a reason he hasn't coached one of the top sides. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by LAM09

[Vegetable 830]

You guys forget Chelsea is not Real and can't just grab anyone they fancy; "Targets" and who we got, given circumstances are two different things and it's not quite Tuchel's fault.

We got pretty much best players we could (who wanted to come here).

[milka 3,393]

Something is happening inside the team
it's not normal more than a month after the start of the season we don't have one good game

Our victories are hard fought or lucky  ( Everton, Leicester , West Ham ) .

The game is boring without a clear idea of what is being done in front of the penalty area.

The ball moves mainly back and to the side

Tuchel took a quality that now cannot arrange and chaos reigns.

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by milka

[laura90 556]

33 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I agree with everything regarding the players, but I’m not sure how much this is down to tuchel himself.

it’s difficult to know whether they were his first or second choices, or what the club told him was possible.

plus there is the timing as most deals took place way too late and that affects the manager (not to mention fitness) ability to prep the squad.

speaking of fitness, all teams we play against look fitter and I don’t think that’s down to the manager.

I am amongst those who believe our manager wasn't backed at all. I said we weren't able to land his first choices not this year not the last.  He got bunch of second rate players who are paid over the odds but that doesn't make them good players. Did he make decisions who to be signed? Those were poor choices to be frank. We landed 31 year old defender while still having 38 and 32 years defenders. 33 year striker? Which manager would want this profile?

I think he had some input but his hands were tied and couldn't get players he really wanted. 

Everything started last season. I was sooo upset when Lukaku was signed and predicted us losing top four status as consequence. It's happening. We had that team, who were champions. Weren't perfect but were champions. Instead of upgrading them, with CM and DM and winger or striker, we dismantled them. Couple of months later, we lost our defenders, our rock. That is when riot began. Last summer window was our last train to improve this  team. We missed it. Later came sanctions, 100 mil flop and everything became twice as difficult.

[robsblubot 3,595]

36 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Who were these "top targets"? 

KK was bought on the back of Boehly's knowledge of his time in Naples...  

There's a reason he hasn't coached one of the top sides. 

top targets *are* snatched up early on. I thought was was an accepted fact: more potential targets will be available early on.

I'm sure Tuchel said no to Haaland first, then no to Jesus second, and then chose Abu in the last day of the transfer window, because you know it makes total sense.

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

4 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

top targets *are* snatched up early on. I thought was was an accepted fact: more potential targets will be available early on.

I'm sure Tuchel said no to Haaland first, then no to Jesus second, and then chose Abu in the last day of the transfer window, because you know it makes total sense.

So did Tuchel have to settle on scraps then? Behave. 

There is zero excuse to play football like that when you have the likes of Aubameyang, Sterling, Koulibaly, Cucurella, Fofana in the team combined with the likes of James, Chilwell, Mount, Silva, etc. 

 

[LAM09 7,062]

2 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

top targets *are* snatched up early on. I thought was was an accepted fact: more potential targets will be available early on.

I'm sure Tuchel said no to Haaland first, then no to Jesus second, and then chose Abu in the last day of the transfer window, because you know it makes total sense.

Did you miss our failed pursuit for Haaland last season, or were you oblivious to it? 

As people have mentioned in the past, there is a calibre of player that won't join us, and it's been that way for some time.

[robsblubot 3,595]

2 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

So did Tuchel have to settle on scraps then? Behave. 

There is zero excuse to play football like that when you have the likes of Aubameyang, Sterling, Koulibaly, Cucurella, Fofana in the team combined with the likes of James, Chilwell, Mount, Silva, etc. 

 

I'm not saying he's blameless, but preparing a team is not only about the manager. Fitness is usually extremely important esp early season where the smaller clubs will be super fit pre-injuries.

That list has one elite player: sterling. It was fairly lackluster IMO.

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

4 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Did you miss our failed pursuit for Haaland last season, or were you oblivious to it? 

As people have mentioned in the past, there is a calibre of player that won't join us, and it's been that way for some time.

That's hardly Tuchel's fault is it? He may ask for player X, but that player will always choose Madrid, City, or PSG. So, and then this season we did business, late for a number of reasons, and I don't think he got player Y either.

That's exactly why IMO marquee signings aren't the answer for us. We need to be a hard team to beat with 11 players involved at all times. Play with stronger opposition as equals and we will lose more often than not.

While Haaland was merely an example of the difficulties of the club to compete at this level, Jesus was a more down to earth and still a far better option than Abu IMO.

 

[Superblue 6,372]

So if we decided to sack Tuchel, somebody please let me know who at the football club has the experience and football knowledge to look at the group of players we have and the direction we want to go in, and choose the right football manager for both of those aspects?

Are we backing Boehly or Clearlake to make these decisions?

If Pep walked out the door at the end of the season, City have the footballing background on their board and in the sporting director positions to identify a replacement that suits the club and the players.

As I mentioned earlier until that football structure is in place it's pointless making this decision. That will be Tuchel's saving grace at present and buy him time to turn this around. How much time I'm not sure but he definitely has to get the team moving in the right direction quickly because once that structure is in place (and I'd assume we'll be looking to make those appointments this side of the World Cup and January transfer window) if things haven't improved he will unfortunately be on borrowed time.

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

10 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I'm not saying he's blameless, but preparing a team is not only about the manager. Fitness is usually extremely important esp early season where the smaller clubs will be super fit pre-injuries.

That list has one elite player: sterling. It was fairly lackluster IMO.

 

So the football we play is justifiable then because we only brought in one elite player?

You are talking bollocks mate. 

[Special Juan 28,146]

Let me make this as clear as possible, the players have chucked it.

TT is outnumbered.

[Pizy 18,952]

2 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Let me make this as clear as possible, the players have chucked it.

TT is outnumbered.

This isn’t a case where we were doing well, then there was a turning point where everything went wrong, and now the players turned on the manager. That’s what makes this so confusing.

I don’t really get the vibe that the players have turned on him at all. It just looks like whatever he’s doing in training isn’t working AT ALL for whatever reason. 

[Special Juan 28,146]

Just now, Pizy said:

This isn’t a case where we were doing well, then there was a turning point where everything went wrong, and now the players turned on the manager. That’s what makes this so confusing.

I don’t really get the vibe that the players have turned on him at all. It just looks like whatever he’s doing in training isn’t working AT ALL for whatever reason. 

Not one good performance this season.

[Vegetable 830]

Same talk with Sarri and same talk with Lampard; Those players are not (mostly) children, it's not like they play Tuchel FC, so what's the point of mentality they show on the pitch right now? They should be acceptably good with any manager and even without one.  

[robsblubot 3,595]

32 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

So the football we play is justifiable then because we only brought in one elite player?

You are talking bollocks mate. 

that's not what I said. I said it's down to a lot of things, not only the manager. That's why I disagree with the notion, "sack the manager because he was backed and could not build an elite side!"

What we see on the pitch is always the result of many weeks' time. If that work happened late, poorly, or not at all, we will see that reflected on the pitch -- just as we do today. My point remains, the lack of proper work can be down to a number of reasons, and I do see evidence of those reasons being at play. While the manager isn't blameless, as he is part of the process, he's far from being the only responsible.
 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

3 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Let me make this as clear as possible, the players have chucked it.

TT is outnumbered.

Definitely a lot of blame on the players. Maybe just for making poor mistakes/decisions/effort more than anything. 

I mean we have played a 352, a 343, a 4222 this season and thats after people kept saying change to 4atb or 3atb. Its clear that it isn’t a formation issue, its the personnel in it. 

If theres something going on behind the scenes, I don’t know, but poor performances and body language is worrying. TT isn’t a manager to mince his words either in public so whether or not the pre season comments after the Arsenal game, the soft team comments, the need for quality players comments etc haven’t gone down well either (but it’s not like he’s wrong in most instances) but whatever’s going on, I don’t see a team fighting for each other, to turn their fortunes around or for their manager who is maybe under pressure. 

[Reddish-Blue 2,510]

3 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Definitely a lot of blame on the players. Maybe just for making poor mistakes/decisions/effort more than anything. 

I mean we have played a 352, a 343, a 4222 this season and thats after people kept saying change to 4atb or 3atb. Its clear that it isn’t a formation issue, its the personnel in it. 

If theres something going on behind the scenes, I don’t know, but poor performances and body language is worrying. TT isn’t a manager to mince his words either in public so whether or not the pre season comments after the Arsenal game, the soft team comments, the need for quality players comments etc haven’t gone down well either (but it’s not like he’s wrong in most instances) but whatever’s going on, I don’t see a team fighting for each other, to turn their fortunes around or for their manager who is maybe under pressure. 

Well of course the comments haven't gone down well...it's almost the same set of players he had last season (with the exception of Werner, Lukaku leaving and the two CB's departing on free transfers).  

Feels like Tuchel is trying to be Mourinho when facing the media but he doesn't have the ability to drop players like Mourinho did in the past.  

The real problem is, if you're playing like shit and you get to start every week, how does that make every other player feel in the team?   It's not like we have a Hazard or Lampard to save the day with a goal or assist. 

[Pizy 18,952]

15 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Not one good performance this season.

I know. But the players turning on the manager at the very start of a season just makes no sense. It usually happens after months of poor results. Why would they down tools when things have barely started to get going?

I think this is all down to training and tactics. Whatever he’s doing with them during the week must be going stale or something.